A disclaimer: my greatest batsman of all time will forever be King Viv, so i'm not a blind/arent Sachin fan. Both Dravid & Tend have amazing stats - ZIP. I think what the writer misses capturing, however, is how Tendulkar made the Indian team feel like it belonged on the global stage. Tendulkar may not have won matches in the past decade (let's not forget he was an outstanding match winner in the 1990s though - ask the Aussies), but being the team's talisman (esp in India) and carrying around that expectation and still maintain his stats is no joke. Let's not undervalue that either.
Re: Not balanced
by fink fanther on Mar 16, 2012 12:26 PM
Tendulkar gave the indian viewers hope. Let us not confuse that with belief. Never for a moment did I believe that India would win overseas because of Tendulkar. I hoped that they would somehow win. And you know what, more often than not, that hope was dashed.
Re: Re: Not balanced
by PosterBoy on Mar 16, 2012 02:26 PM
I agree and disgree, my friend. Hope and belief are a fine line. Inspirational is something else.
Where i agree with you is last 10 yrs --- it was infact inverse -- i lost hope when Tendulkar was around! :) He was unable to finish things off.
Where i disagree: Tendulkar defined a generation's way of thinking for Indians. He established himself as THE yardstick. We compare all other great indian and global players to Tendulkar. That's his beauty.
Truth - i dont completely agree with you on One day/Tests ....England 1993, Australia 1998. Pakistan (Chennai 1999) although we lost, to blame that on Sachin is sacrilege.
And i repeat -- i'm not even crazy about Sachin. But, give a performer his due.
Both were great players - that's all that needs to be said. Each of them have been great performers, great role models in their own way. Cant ask for anything more.
Re: Re: Re: Not balanced
by fink fanther on Mar 16, 2012 03:58 PM
I have no problems in accepting sachin's superiority pre 2003. In fact he was india's best hope back then. post 2003 has been a different story altogether. although the averages say a different story, tendulkar has been patchy at best.
The feature that sets Dravid apart from Tendulkar are three things: 1. Flexibility - as the author has mentioned, Tendulkar didnt care enough for the team to set aside his preferences in batting order. Also, he was annoying enough to sugest that he would have rather got to his 200 in Multan, rather than put the team above his personal satisfaction. Surely, even his well wishers would cringe at this selfish act.
2. Dravid has a better record when it comes to crunch situations, whereas Tendulkar simply caves in to pressure.
3. Dravid's ability to tailor his game to match the demands of ODIs despite him being labelled a slow scorer has been phenomenal. Tendulkar too changed his game, but in the other way. He became slower and less attacking in order to continue playing despite his injuries. Now, isnt Dravid's feat more remarkable?
There are other areas where Dravd scores above Tendulkar, but they would be too many. I have just mentioned the most important ones that doesnt even take into account the technique of the players, but considers only the attitudes of both when playing.
I believe Tendulkar has been highly overrated, and as a consequence players like Dravid have remained in the sidelines despite achieving as much or more than Tendulkar. And I am not talking about the number of runs scored here.
Re: Good article
by Varun on Mar 16, 2012 11:52 AM
Fair points. Point 3 was really amazing from dravid. Also like the way you said "didnt care enough for" instead of "didnt care for".
Re: Re: Good article
by fink fanther on Mar 16, 2012 12:03 PM
I have no doubt that every cricketer plays for the team. Tendulkar probably has the best interests of the team in mind, but is sometimes too rigid in his thinking that it is detrimental to the success of the team.
Re: Re: Re: Good article
by Sunil Vaidya on Mar 16, 2012 12:12 PM
fink fanther i am surprised to hear that sachin said he would have rather got to his 200 in multan, rather than put the team above his personal satisfaction. I did not know this. are this his exact words. where can i find more about this?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Good article
by fink fanther on Mar 16, 2012 12:20 PM
Sachin was not pleased at Dravid's declaration. He even said that he was let down, as the author has mentioned. This sugegsts that he would have rather got to his 200. I was watching that match and was getting really impatient at Sachin's way of batting. It was as if he had no clue how to score quick runs. If you google, you will be able to find articles regarding this.
Re: Good article
by Sunil Vaidya on Mar 16, 2012 12:02 PM
very good post fink fanther...
dravid was actually not a great odi player till he started also to keep wickets for india in odi...since that time he turned from a average odi player to a great odi player...
Re: Good article
by prasath jayaraman on Mar 16, 2012 12:26 PM
oh, common!lets agree this fact.dravid is not fit for ODI/T20 cricket.He had the luxury of better strike players like tendulkar,sehwag& yuvraj ahead of him to win matches and to compensate for his pathetic strike rate in ODIs.i agree T20 is not a yardstick to measure cricketing standards but you need a better expertise/talent to shine in ODIs. Tests do not mean u have to switch to slow scoring mode. Look at many gr8s who have played this game and look at their strike rate.
Only if one scores, the pressure will mount on the bowling side and the field would be spread. If one adopts Dravid approach, the opposition would always feel like they have a chance to pick wickets and batsmen would always be surrounded by close in fielders, thereby putting more pressure on the batting side. Also batsman at the other end would end up getting frustrated bcoz of such players and would eventually throw away their wickets.. Rotation of strike and keeping the scoreboard ticking is the key to success. Also the more batsman try to inhibit their natural game, the more susceptible they will be.
Dravid needs to be told in no uncertain terms that he would have maintain a healthy strike rate or else leave the game for other players.
Re: Re: Good article
by fink fanther on Mar 16, 2012 12:38 PM
Dravid has played plenty of match winning ODI innings in the latter part of his career. And he has done that handsomely. I dont think Tendulkar's batting now in ODIs is flamboyant enough either. He plays only a few strokes and in general takes away all risk from his game. If you see Dravid's ODI games from 2006, I think you will find that he is very close to Tendulkar in terms of strike rate. So I think your assesment of Dravid is unfair. It would have been very apt during his early years in cricket. Certainly not now.
This article would have been a perfect tribute to Dravid but for the writers apparent hate or dislike towards tendulkar. Dravid does not need praise or made to stand tall at the cost of Tendulkar being shown down. We are blessed to have a player like Tendulkar in our team. Let s highlight Dravid on His own merits because He has earned enough laurels to deserves that..
Re: Praise Dravid on His own merits..
by mitul on Mar 16, 2012 11:46 AM
true... but this shows that tendulkar is unmatched.. every cricketer is compared to him...
Re: Re: Praise Dravid on His own merits..
by Varun on Mar 16, 2012 11:53 AM
It could also mean that media has created him to be a benchmark when in reality there are others who have done better.
Re: Re: Re: Praise Dravid on His own merits..
by Against Pseudos on Mar 16, 2012 12:50 PM
Hmmmmm... You think Dravid has done better than Tendulkar, someone else thinks Richards has done better than Tendulkar, and others might think Ponting has done better than Tendulkar. But the fact remains that no one compares Dravid to Lara, or Bradman to Ponting, or Richards to Jayasuriya..
Re: Praise Dravid on His own merits..
by My email on Mar 16, 2012 11:46 AM
An eye opener article for all tendi lovers. If tendi reads this article, he will miss the ton today against Bangladesh out of shree tension.
Re: Praise Dravid on His own merits..
by Mahendra Parab on Mar 16, 2012 11:46 AM
agreed... Dravid is surely great but writer cannot spread love for dravid in people with hatred towards tendulkar. The ratio for Tendulkar fans is lot more than this writer can even think. Writer seems very novice though.
Re: Praise Dravid on His own merits..
by Varun on Mar 16, 2012 11:54 AM
Fair point. I dont know if author intended to downgrade tendu. Reason being all of that he said happened and was relevant to his comparison criteria. Maybe he went overboard.
Re: Praise Dravid on His own merits..
by prasath jayaraman on Mar 16, 2012 12:27 PM
oh, common!lets agree this fact.dravid is not fit for ODI/T20 cricket.He had the luxury of better strike players like tendulkar,sehwag& yuvraj ahead of him to win matches and to compensate for his pathetic strike rate in ODIs.i agree T20 is not a yardstick to measure cricketing standards but you need a better expertise/talent to shine in ODIs. Tests do not mean u have to switch to slow scoring mode. Look at many gr8s who have played this game and look at their strike rate.
Only if one scores, the pressure will mount on the bowling side and the field would be spread. If one adopts Dravid approach, the opposition would always feel like they have a chance to pick wickets and batsmen would always be surrounded by close in fielders, thereby putting more pressure on the batting side. Also batsman at the other end would end up getting frustrated bcoz of such players and would eventually throw away their wickets.. Rotation of strike and keeping the scoreboard ticking is the key to success. Also the more batsman try to inhibit their natural game, the more susceptible they will be.
Dravid needs to be told in no uncertain terms that he would have maintain a healthy strike rate or else leave the game for other players.
While there is no doubt of the resolve & commitment of Dravid, there is one error which is being overlooked. Dravid's decision to keep wickets is being presented as a proof of his readiness to sacrifice for the team's cause. But his Captain of that time Mr.Ganguly himself has clarified that Dravid decided to keep wicket because Dravid at that time could not have been accommodated in the one day team only based on his batting and therefore room was made by asking Dravid to keep wickets which anyway helped team because he did the job of wicket keeper also more or less satisfactorily. You cannot present your compulsion as virtue.
Do you ever see an Oz reporter feeling the need to trash Warne, to establish greatness of McGrath? To praise one Guy, we have to criticize others. To glorify one guy, we have to demean others You can always bend statistics to prove anything you want. Thats why the most neutral way to use statistics is without any filters like World-Cup or 2007December to 2009 Feb etc
As far as Rahuls retirement, he has just accepted his time had come. The reflexes were slowing down. The number of times Oz bowlers got to his middle & legstump (clean bowled) before he could close the gap between bat & pad, was astonishing. The faoundation of the wall, the impeccable defense had weakened & he retired. Dont read too much into it. It happened to Don Bradman, it will happen to Tendulkar
Re: Typical Indian Mentality
by Varun on Mar 16, 2012 11:42 AM
The author has merely stated facts. Aussie reporter not needing to do that might have to do with how much a player is deified and underrated in australia. Unless one mines into stats, one does not see the real picture. Of coz other factors should be taken into consideration, but for 2 players in the same team playing together in next to next batting spots, it is fair to have a comparison. If it was a top order vs lower order it would be unfair.
Re: Typical Indian Mentality
by Varun on Mar 16, 2012 11:43 AM
However you are right that bringing someone down to highlight someone else does happen a lot in India. Dont know how it compares to Aus.
Superb article .Its purpose seems to give Dravid the place he deserves in Indian and world cricket. It is a slap on the indian media who thinks Sachin is the only thing in Indian cricket
