Only friends of Pakistan and Anglo-American group of countries, are against the deal. Their only intension is to keep India weak. These people have interfered with all major institutes/organisations and spoilt the work culture. Like DRDO, Bhel, BEL and other PSUs. Bureaucratic and Political interferences have made them in efficient and import dependant. Only ISRO and Atomic divisions escape because of strong personality of DR Sarabhaiand Dr Bhave who ensured the system to be followed.
Re: Reliance Defence Limited gets 30k crores
by bakchod on Oct 15, 2018 01:52 AM
What do you mean private pockets? If some of the contracts go to DRAL, Tata Aerospace, Mahindra, L&T, etc, then the money will go to their employees also as salary. All these companies have margins of 20% or less, so lion's share will go Indian pvt sector employees. If you are working in a pvt sector company in India, then you also are a Private Pocket. Should you not get money for your work?
Re: Reliance Defence Limited gets 30k crores
by aam admi on Oct 15, 2018 11:39 AM
Making parts for Rafel is not a joke and French are not fool that they will pay their money for junk created in India. Quality parts will be needed to match the Rafel's quality. And producing such parts will not be joke. otherwise India or say HAL or DRDO would have produced them in the past and we are not making such contract in present, since we failed in past to produce such quality air crafts in last 5-6 decades , that is why such purchases are made. And those who were responsible for failures in past are shouting more loudly against the deal.
with *Operation cover up*, the Modi govt keeps mum on salient questions !
How did Ambanis company land the offset ?
Did Dassault really choose it ?
If so, why did Mr Hollande say that it was imposed on them by the Indian govt ?
Why didnt Dassault refute this statement of Hollande ?
Why did Dassault merely state that it abided by the Indian governments defence procurement procedure instead of refuting Mr Hollande ?
Why did the French media house Mediapart quote Dassault COO Loik Segalen telling his colleagues that they have to accommodate Ambanis company if they wanted the deal ?
Why didnt Dassault refute this statement of Mediapart ?
What are Reliance Dassault Aerospace Limiteds (RDAL) credentials for maintenance of the Rafales when compared to those of HAL ?
What is the *poor track record* of HAL for maintaining fighter aircraft ?
That it maintained Dassaults own Mirage 2000 for more than 20 years in India ?
That it successfully upgraded the Mirage 2000s of the IAF ?
That it has built the 4th generation fighter - the 25 tonne Sukhoi 30 - from raw material stage to the ranks of the IAF ?
And how does the 10 day old RDAL compare with HAL in these matters ?
What was the issue over which Dassault and HAL did not agree initially ?
They did not agree for 2 things - the cost per unit of the Rafale if it is made in India and the time required for HAL to manufacture it.
Dassault stated that the cost would increase if it is made by HAL. HAL agreed to this argument.
Re: While the hapless Nirmala Sitharaman scrambles
by piri on Oct 14, 2018 07:49 PM
But it stated (very logically if one were to think over it) that the time and cost over runs would be solely due to the assembly lines being built in its facilities instead of using the already built assembly lines at Dassault in France.
This, even if it increased the cost slightly, would actually decrease the life cycle cost of the Rafales over the long term !
And how much would those cost over runs would have been ?
Would they have risen to the equivalent of Rs 1600 crores per fighter (the weaponry included) in place of the originally agreed Rs 520 crores ??
What did the HAL chairman who oversaw the technical and commercial talks with Dassault (Mr Suvarna Raju, who retired on 1st September this year) say about this charge against HAL ?
He stated that the govt should pick up the courage to make the files regarding the commercial talks between Dassault and HAL public !
He stated that Dassault and HAL had completed the work share arrangement and submitted the document signed jointly by them to the government !
Why is the Modi govt silent on these facts ?
Why is the Modi govt silent on the life cycle costs of the fighter if it keeps buying them from France ?
Why is the Modi govt silent on the price details after initially declaring the deal value to be Rs 58000 crores for 36 Rafales ?
Re: While the hapless Nirmala Sitharaman scrambles
by Sachin on Oct 14, 2018 09:48 PM
Piri ... chill bro .... answers are there for each of your questions.
But dont write so much that people cant read nor answer.
For e.g., why Hollande said something ... Hollande is no more the Presidentz he lost elections, so just like your congi boss, he too will blabber anything to a private unverified paid news website.
Your question, why modi not revealing cost ... supreme court has told them to give this info in a sealed cover, not reveal publicly for pakis like you.
Re: Re: While the hapless Nirmala Sitharaman scrambles
by piri on Oct 14, 2018 09:52 PM
Chill, you dumbo ! Don't run away !
The topic is not whether Hollande is the present French President !
The topic is why Dassault and the current French govt have not refuted what he said (that they did not have a choice with an Indian offset partner) !
And the question is not whether Modi is not revealing the price (price is different from cost, if you are not aware of that) !
The question is why Nirmala Sitharaman first assured journalists so publicly that the full price details would be conveyed to them and then stood up in Parliament a month later and stated that the price details cannot be revealed due to the till then unknown secrecy clause !
Re: Re: Re: While the hapless Nirmala Sitharaman scrambles
by Sachin on Oct 14, 2018 09:55 PM
... So now unr heavily misinformed.
Dassault as well as French Govt have clarified after that 3 times, that Govt of India had no role in selecting Reliance. And it was their independent decision.
However, your dumbogiri wont bring your italians back to power anymore.
Re: Re: Re: Re: While the hapless Nirmala Sitharaman scrambles
by piri on Oct 15, 2018 12:00 AM
Read my point again, you dumbo !
Dassault stated that it chose RDL, but it did not deny what Hollande said (that it did so under duress from the Indian govt) !
Do you think, you dumbo, that Dassault will not try to save the deal by playing with words without refuting what Hollande has said if it does not fear the latter from coming out with more incriminating evidence ?
Moreover, Dassault has not refuted what Mediapart quoted its COO Look Segalen as saying that Dassault must accept RDL if it is to land the deal with India !
Moreover, if Dassault did not find HAL good enough, how on earth would it accept a company with no infra or experience even for maintenance alone ?
Re: Re: Re: While the hapless Nirmala Sitharaman scrambles
by Sachin on Oct 14, 2018 09:58 PM
And moreover, please read the Supreme Court statement, it clearly says that we dont want price details. Still Govt is going to submit it to the court.
Also, Govt has already indicated in media that its 20% cheaper than Cong price.
Re: Re: Re: Re: While the hapless Nirmala Sitharaman scrambles
by Major sonu singh on Oct 14, 2018 11:11 PM
You are correct Sachin, This govt is done a very good job, previous foolish Indians were divided into casts and now they are divided into parties also. Nothing has been changed since last govt, all are thieves, whether or Rahul, all all thieves. Indian politics is nothing but a bunch of shit people.
Re: Re: Re: Re: While the hapless Nirmala Sitharaman scrambles
by piri on Oct 15, 2018 12:06 AM
The SC asked for the process by which the Modi govt finalised the deal.
Which means that it wants to check whether the DPP was violated by Modi when he announced the deal in France in April 2015. He had not taken the required clearance from the CCS prior to finalisation of the deal !
Now, of what relevance is this violation by Modi to our discussion about the Modi govts flip flops regarding the announcement of the actual price ?
Re: Re: Re: While the hapless Nirmala Sitharaman scrambles
by bakchod on Oct 15, 2018 01:54 AM
They have said half a dozen times that they chose Reliance Defense voluntarily. I thought you were smarter than Papppu
Re: While the hapless Nirmala Sitharaman scrambles
by Chaitanya B on Oct 15, 2018 12:13 PM
I wonder what else is being compromised or given up during this cover-up trip, to purchase the silence of Dassault and French govt. Promise to place another order ?
Rafale deal controversy is made by pappu to get some visibility and attention. There is nothing fishy in the deal. HAL is incapable to deliver any of the defense products on time. Everything gets delayed by few years. So what is wrong in private players getting the deal. The deal is between 2 govts. unlike in the past where each and every deal used to be done thru a middleman and money used to transfer from middleman to congis.
Re: Rafale is Pappu & co made controversy
by Rajesh Chheda on Oct 14, 2018 10:24 PM
Which defense contractor delivers on time? Not even Dassault or Gripen or Lockheed Martin or Russian companies. Modi and his ministers have build a castle of lies that will collapse with truth being out. When Dassault is offering 9 to 20% cheaper planes why buy 36 instead of 126 needed, rather with discounts available, increase the order to 150 planes.
Re: Re: Rafale is Pappu & co made controversy
by bakchod on Oct 15, 2018 01:59 AM
We can't afford it. Parrikar had said when he cancelled the original tender itself that it is too expensive. Thats why new RFIs for single engine fighters was last year. Single engine fighters are much cheaper. Btw, HAL still has to deliver 120 Tejas fighters and it is in no position to also try and build Rafales simultaneously.
Re: Re: Re: Rafale is Pappu & co made controversy
by Chaitanya B on Oct 15, 2018 01:20 PM
Irrelevant.
Rafale offset deal given to Reliance is not for "building" new Rafales. It is mostly for Performance-Based Logistics services and "other manufacturing" as vaguely mentioned currently.
So your argument that HAL has no manufacturing bandwidth is irrelevant in explaining why this plum deal went to Reliance (who, BTW, has ZERO manufacturing BANDWIDTH, since he hadn't made even a joystick for a plane in his 12-day old company)
Re: Rafale is Pappu & co made controversy
by daniel thorat on Oct 15, 2018 10:53 AM
That is as stupid as saying pappu installed the chaiwala in Delhi.
Re: Rafale is Pappu & co made controversy
by daniel thorat on Oct 15, 2018 10:55 AM
Rafale "controversy? is not made. It is Modi who did the most brazen mistake in a false overconfidence that the nation will keep quiet, listening to his oratory. Modi and his entire govt.is being utilized to contain the irreparable damage he has done to the country.
Hang the Culprits.The commission received from the deal was distributed among all the Gang. They should be driven out from our Country. The looteers of public money must quit India and no permission should be given for contesting Election.
Re: Rafele Deal
by LiveComment on Oct 14, 2018 07:24 PM
If you want to hang then start with congis. You will not have not even 10% of congis left if you want to hang / drive out someone for corruption.
Re: Re: Rafele Deal
by daniel thorat on Oct 15, 2018 10:59 AM
The Rafale scam along with the other huge, huge scams done under different heads will take the toll and free the country from self-serving deceptive leaders who have grabbed top positions quite by accident and by fortuitous circumstances.
Re: Re: Re: Rafele Deal
by Chaitanya B on Oct 15, 2018 01:14 PM
Surely not by accident or good fortune.
Heavy corporate funding (from overseas backers in violation of FEMA rules), EVM manipulation (which explains why their vote percentage is not commensurate with their seat percentage), blatant lies, unproven allegations (as in 2G), false promises (eg 15 lacs, parliament-committed dues to Andhra Pradesh), and jingoistic rhetoric (about containing insurgency and cross-border infiltration and attacks)
Re: Re: Rafele Deal
by daniel thorat on Oct 15, 2018 10:59 AM
The Rafale scam along with the other huge, huge scams done under different heads will take the toll and free the country from self-serving deceptive leaders who have grabbed top positions quite by accident and by fortuitous circumstances.
Political parties loot public money chiefly to contest elections !
And it is the BJP that steals public money the most now by a very big margin !
And it is the Indian commoners - especially north Indian ones and certain electorates such as Tamil Nadu in the south - who are primarily responsible for making political parties spend so heavily for election campaigns !
Ignorant and stuxpid commoners vote for parties that make the most noise with the most number of posters, rallies, newspaper ads, TV ads, door to door campaigns with hundreds of paid party workers......!
As Socrates said so long ago, every nation will get the government it deserves !
A nation of such stuxpid people as India will keep getting big time thieves as its rulers !
Re: Mukeshbhai
by piri on Oct 14, 2018 01:42 PM
It was not that Anil Ambani *took* the deal !
The deal was *given* to him by Modi as a means to hide the diversion of about Rs 40000 crores from the exchequer to him in order to help him partly pay back the Rs 90000 crores he owes public sector banks (which is the largest NPA) as well as to probably pay a hefty kickback to the BJP to fund its world record election campaign expenditure !!
There is no other reason why Nirmala Sitharaman resorted to so many desperate flip flops after inadvertently promising journalists to convey the full details of the Rafale price !
There is no other reason why a 10 day old company was foisted on Dassault by the Modi govt after removing the experienced and relatively infrastructure rich HAL !
There is no other reason why the then French president Hollande (who signed the deal with Modi) stated that RDL was not their choice as an offsets partner and that they were asked by the Indian govt to choose it !
There is no other reason why the HAL chairman who retired (Mr Suvarna Raju) recently stated that HAL was ready and well equipped in every way to manufacture and maintain the Rafale aircraft as well as the assembly lines !
And.....HAL is one of the most successful PSUs, earning a very healthy 18 percent net profit margin on sales throuput as well as on defence exports !
Re: Re: Mukeshbhai
by samcarto on Oct 14, 2018 03:02 PM
Nonsense
If Modi has given the deal to Anil ambani then why did he not stop Dassault from signing up with other 19 vendor vendors as of date?
If HAL was equipped then what stops Dassault from negotiating with HAL as it is negotiating with 100 other vendors?? The poor track record of local aircraft manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) overshadowed IAF's plan to buy 126 Dassault Rafale combat fighters after the French company got jittery over its Indian partner's ability to produce the advanced jet.
Under the bid provision, 108 of the 126 aircraft was to be built by HAL, while the remaining would be supplied by Dassault Aviation directly.
During the ongoing negotiations, Dassault refused to take responsibility of aircraft that would be produced by HAL, though it will give product support. It insisted on signing separate contracts for 108 and 18 aircraft.
The defence ministry, however, made it clear it would not be possible to change the terms of the contract as outlined in the request for proposal issued in 2007.
The agreement could not be signed then because HAL's existing capacity to absorb technology remained in doubt, a fact the IAF is still coming to terms with in the case of Sukhois.
Re: Re: Re: Mukeshbhai
by piri on Oct 14, 2018 05:22 PM
Nonsense.
No use in trying to divert the topic !
The fact that there are other offset partners in the new deal does little to hide the question why and how a 10 day old company of Anil Ambani got an offset for maintaining the 36 fighters !
How did Ambanis company land the offset ?
Did Dassault really choose it ?
If so, why did Mr Hollande say that it was imposed on them by the Indian govt ?
Why didnt Dassault refute this statement of Hollande ?
Why did Dassault merely state that it abided by the Indian governments defence procurement procedure instead of refuting Mr Hollande ?
Why did the French media house Mediapart quote Dassault COO Loik Segalen telling his colleagues that they have to accommodate Ambanis company if they wanted the deal ?
Why didnt Dassault refute this statement of Mediapart ?
What are Reliance Dassault Aerospace Limiteds (RDAL) credentials for maintenance of the Rafales when compared to those of HAL ?
What is the *poor track record* of HAL for maintaining fighter aircraft ?
That it maintained Dassaults own Mirage 2000 for more than 20 years in India ?
That it successfully upgraded the Mirage 2000s of the IAF ?
That it has built the 4th generation fighter - the 25 tonne Sukhoi 30 - from raw material stage to the ranks of the IAF ?
And how does the 10 day old RDAL compare with HAL in these matters ?
What was the issue over which Dassault and HAL did not agree initially ?
They did not agree for 2 things - the cost per unit if the Rafale
Re: Re: Re: Re: Mukeshbhai
by piri on Oct 14, 2018 06:01 PM
if it is made in India and the time required for HAL to manufacture it.
Dassault stated that the cost would increase if it is made by HAL. HAL agreed to this argument. But it stated (very logically if one were to think over it) that the time and cost over runs would be solely due to the assembly lines being built in its facilities instead of using the already built assembly lines at Dassault in France.
This, even if it increased the cost slightly, would actually decrease the life cycle cost of the Rafales over the long term !
And how much would those cost over runs would have been ?
Would they have risen to the equivalent of Rs 1600 crores per fighter (the weaponry included) in place of the originally agreed Rs 520 crores ??
What did the HAL chairman who oversaw the technical and commercial talks with Dassault (Mr Suvarna Raju, who retired on 1st September this year) say about this charge against HAL ?
He stated that the govt should pick up the courage to make the files regarding the commercial talks between Dassault and HAL public !
He stated that Dassault and HAL had completed the work share arrangement and submitted the document signed jointly by them to the government !
Why is the Modi govt silent on these facts ?
Why is the Modi govt silent on the life cycle costs of the fighter if it keeps buying them from France ?
Why is the Modi govt silent on the price details after initially declaring the deal value to be Rs 58000 crores for 36 Rafales ?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mukeshbhai
by piri on Oct 14, 2018 09:36 PM
Hey dumbo !
Don't try to run away !
Where are your answers ?
Why didn't Dassault refute the statement of Hollande that France was forced by the Indian govt to accept RDL as an offset partner ?
Why didn't Dassault refute the report of Mediapart that Dassault COO Loik Segalen told his colleagues that they will not get the Indian deal if Reliance Defence Ltd is not accepted as partner ?
Why did Parrikars ministry announce that the price of 36 Rafales is Rs 58000 crores, then Nirmala Sitharaman promise journalists that she would convey the full price details of the fighter, then stand up in parliament a month later and announce that the price details cannot be revealed due to the till then unknown secrecy clause ?
And, hey dumbo, are you suggesting that the weapons package announced would make the price go up from Rs 520 crores to Rs 1600 crores per fighter ?
And, hey dumbo, you stated earlier that HAL failed with the Sukhoi !
What is your source, you dumbo for saying this ?
Look up the record of HAL with the Sukhois from any source you can find !
Re: Re: Re: Mukeshbhai
by Sachin on Oct 14, 2018 10:06 PM
O bihari UP bhaiya, chill, half of stock market is built by gujjus, millions of jobs are created by gujjus, Gandhiji
I knew my message would not be published by Rediff. Rediff is a paid stooge of the Ghandy dynasty and it is clear from this and many other psts ignored.
