Not a fare assessment at all. The author is only elaborating on what he has been saying in various debates on TV channels. On this subject Mr. M. Raza's assessments seems to be more genuine. Are we suppose to agree to failed proposal which could not be finalized or to the successful one which has been finalized, now.
The author still is talking of the acquisition of the warplanes whereas he is silent on the Tejas Make in india product in the making for the last 34 yrs by HAL and other PSU. Why was the congress govts during that 34 yrs not give enough money and manpower towards making of a warplane or helicopter with advanced avionics needed for modern warfare. RG is so upbeat about HAL capability why did his govt not ask HAL to put effort in making of an Warplane engine even if it means to have foreign experts on board and we could have developed on a base engine. we are still dependent on foreign countries for the engine. why not have a R&D team including the private players of indian companies in global tieup make engines in india for our warplane.
China started at the same time and now have 4 fighter jets and 2 superjets to their name and also are now in the process of making passenger planes for themselves which will help them reduce in foreign exchange drastically and can create more stealth to their fighters which others wont have knowledge of and take enemy by surprise.
Re: Re: Author silent on the making of Tejas for last 34yrs
by Suresh on Nov 23, 2018 10:26 AM
Guys in the matter of national security there is no space for delays. UPA delayed and it put our country in danger. NDA did not want to . There is cost to making those tough decisions. Still the cost of 36fighters are cheaper. NDA did not cancel an agreed deal. They cancelled a stalled deal.
THE PRICE OF THE RAFALE AS PER BJP AND THE PRICE OF RAFALE AS PER CONGRESS IS LESS OR HIGH IT DOESNOT AFFECT ANY PARTY BECAUSE THE 126 JETS HAVE NOT RECEIVED IN INDIA DURING CONGRESS TENURE AND BJP HAS FINALISED AND DONE THE PAYMENT AND NOW THEY ARE VOICING OUT LOUD THAT THE COST IS HIGHER THAN OUR DEALING WITH THE DASSAULT FOR RAFALE. WHY ARE THEY VOICING LOUD NOW WHEN WERE THEY WHEN THEY HAVE THE DEAL BUT NO MONEY FOR PURCHASING AND NOW THEY ARE SHOUTING AND MAKING THE PEOPLE FOOL THAT THEY CAN GET VOTES BY MAKING NONSENSE
Re: Rafale
by on Nov 22, 2018 06:41 PM
Because someone pocketed our,tax payers, money-a lot of them. That is what people call corruption. Simple, Mr. Watson.
What's the use of all these breast beating while the man in question gets away with blue murder...? We have seen how one of the biggest scams,VYAPAM cover up was accomplished.In my blog I have clearly brought out how the inflated price is being hidden and why IOP rule was changed.SC is the only hope. Let's see.
The writer is not conversant with aviation industry, price of 36 Rafel even if 40% higher is nothing, aircraft industry biggest cost is amortization due to lower production numbers. Hardly not even 100 aircraft are produced each year whereas capital cost and research cost is very very high, Modi did typical financial deal to reduce the number, induct 5 generation aircraft urgently to Air Force and get time to think to increase the number later on or different aircraft. Even cost of producing aircraft in HAL is much higher due to above these cost viz a viz number of aircraft required.
The author fails to mention that the earlier deal of manufacturing in India could not be implemented, as HAL was not in a position to do so. Otherwise, the deal would have been struck in 2012 itself.
Re: Rafale deal
by piri on Nov 22, 2018 05:17 PM
Hey, dumbo !
Read in detail before commenting !
The sequence of the procurement procedure for 7 squadrons (126 fighters) of MMRCA is well discussed and there are hundreds of reports about it in the media. It started with a global RFP in 2007, receipt of proposals and expressions of interest from vendors, then finalisation of a complete and very elaborate tender document in consultation with the IAF (which took a couple of years), floating of the tender followed by the most time consuming part - detAiled tech evaluation by the IAF (which included repeated test sorties of each of the 6 fighters over different landscapes including over the Himalayas).
The price bids were opened only after all these measures were completed and the IAF shortlisted 2 fighters - the Euro fighter Typhoon and the Rafale.
When Rafale was identified as the L1 bid, long drawn out negotiations were started as per the laid down Defence Purchase Procedure and the final draft purchase order began tAking shape in 2013.
At most, the UPA cAn be accused of dragging it's feet in the deal for only a year (from 2013 till the general election in 2014). It is assumed by observers that the UPA decided to leave the final placement of the P.O to the next govt due to the 2G and coal scams that hit it.
Unlike 2G and Coal, Rafale was not a scam till Modi turned it into one in April, 2015 !
In 2015 March, the Dassault CEO had declared in a press meet at the Bangalore Air show that the Rafale deal with HAL was
Re: Re: Rafale deal
by piri on Nov 22, 2018 05:25 PM
ready and will be signed very shortly.
And.....less than a month after the Dassault CEO said this (precisely on 10 April, 2015), Narendra Modi announces in France that 36 Rafales will be bought in a fly away condition and that the long tender and procurement process for 126 fighters that was about to be completed is being junked !!!
Re: Re: Rafale deal
by yahoo on Nov 22, 2018 06:41 PM
not a scam? They could not buy aircraft in 10years and now are crying as if they would have closed the deal in 2 more weeks. If they could they would have bought the aircraft in 2012 itself. The appointed the great AK.Anthony, who is famous for not doing anything at all as defense minister. Get your facts right before licking that family's bottom.
Re: Re: Re: Rafale deal
by Avinash on Nov 22, 2018 10:44 PM
No New Fighters’ Induction Since 1985: IAF Officers to SC During Rafale Hearing. This Bagoda Colonel himself had written an Article in Bu11ShitStandard (Business Standard) why HAL is not capable of producing Rafale Jets in India some time in 2013.
Re: Re: Rafale deal
by P S SHAH on Nov 23, 2018 10:02 AM
Oye ever stinking kalumal, jobless, useless komaaaaaaaaaaaaaali buffoon,Why you still continuing your never ending kraaaaa......kraa...... kraaa.... all the time as per your habit without knowing anything about subject when the matter is before the Apex court ? Abe kaliye, dont think you are more experienced, have better legal knowledge and wisdom than the Judges of the highest court of this country. Wait for some time instead of writing long and useless comments just tp pass all your idle time free of cost as a jobless person.
Ajai Shukla is a journalist who has strong political inclination and always serve his masters even if it involves demeaning the country and any other political party. To know both sides of story and opinion, please also check the opinion from Mahroof Raza who is an unbiased ex-soldier. For those who are spitting half baked knowledge, please have a glimpse of the 'real' story:
WHAT IS RAFALE DEAL?
Rafale deal is a defence agreement signed between the governments of India and France. The deal was after long-drawn talks. Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman recently claimed that the Rafale deal has its origin in the NDA government of Atal Bihari Vajpayee, which in 2000, emphasised the need to mordernisation of the Indian Air Force.
What was upa deal ?
mmrca(2007) tenders for 126 medium multi role combat aircraft fighters are issued by india in 2007 the competition was between french company rafale and russia mig-35 ,the swedish saab jas -39 gripen and american lockheed martins f-16 and the boing f/a -18super and euro fighter typhoon
only the rafale and typhoon make the cut but upa govt.chose dassault rafale
According to this 18fighters are to be imported in a fly away condition and hindustan aeronautics ltd.the remaining 108 jets with technological assistance from dassault
Re: About the author
by Nine Leaves on Nov 22, 2018 03:19 PM
What was BJP deal?
Not cancelling the existing Negotiation, and re-evaluating the RFP with other vendors (EuroFghtier etc), when Dassault overshot the price. While all the other vendors, requested government for the re-evaluation of the RFP. Declaring a different purchase order all together in April, 2015, of 36 Aircraft, citing urgency. Then cancelling the existing, decade long procurement procedure 3 months later in july 2015 Then getting the new deal, reviewed and approved 16 months later, i.e. in august 2016 for 8.5 Billion USD for 36 jets. Originally, it was 126 for 20 Billion dollars. Means the review of the contract done after the declaration. Signing the contract very next month in September 2016. Expressing no knowledge of Reliance, being the offset partner of the deal. While Dassault’s request to keep Reliance as partner, not HAL, was already refuted by UPA-II in negotiations, back in Feb 2012.
Re: Re: About the author
by Nine Leaves on Nov 22, 2018 03:20 PM
Price comparison between Congress deal and Modi deal
The price comparison between Congress deal and Modi deal is unfair because the Congress deal was never finalized. Giving the benefit of doubt to Modi government and considering the effect of the following:Inflation.Reduction in the order.Catering for specifications and miscellaneous other aspects of the fresh deal. It can be assessed that the price per aircraft could go up by 200 or even 300 crore. The price per aircraft of Rs 1570 crore, which is more than double of the past negotiating price appears unjustifiable.The explanations being offered for the price rise lack credibility.
Unclarity in cost of aircraft, If you can’t convince them, confuse them.
Congress claims that their deal was much cheaper than that of what NDA negotiated.
As per Congress their price for single a was ~600 crore as against 1600 crore. BJP claims that the price includes India specific accessories viz Radar, Metoeor Missile etc.
Some experts believe that UPA’s pricing was bit flawed.
Too much of smoke and too much of confusion.
Unsubstantiated media reports gives conflicting report.
Re: Re: Re: About the author
by Nine Leaves on Nov 22, 2018 03:23 PM
Lastly and most importantly, Reliance which supposedly doesn’t have any experience in defence and getting this offset contract. That’s not for Government to answer but for Dassault to do it as the Government doesn’t have any role in the choice of French company. Also:Reliance defense and Naval has 6 major defense engineering divisions and has been in operation since 2009. It runs the largest shipyard in India and manufactures ships, corvettes for the Navy. Do check out their website.
This is the same company that has branched off into aerospace. So if you are opposing it now for not having experience in Aerostructure, you should have done so when it entered Naval defense production. Secondly, no one else in this country has a 400 acre aerospace park.
Coming to whether this was a favor to Anil Ambani. The total deal is worth 7.78 billion euros (around 58000 crores). Of this, half has to be invested in India. So essentially half of (16000 crore dassault, 4000 odd crore thales, 13000 crore MBDA, 6500 crore safran and some other component manufacturers). Till now only dassault and thales have partnered with reliance. So essentially half of that value will be built by Anil Ambani. And at around a 10% profit margin, its a 1000 crore profit for the company, spread at 200 crores a year. Strangely, Anil Ambani gets 40 odd crores as salary every year, 200 crore per year doesn’t seem incentive enough to for such a risky investment.
Re: Re: Re: Re: About the author
by Nine Leaves on Nov 22, 2018 03:27 PM
So dear readers, most of the Media houses have to satisfy their political masters and they are the real 'P*MPS'. The best example is Redif, so are the other biased media like Republic world, NDTV etc etc. Therefore I request genuine readers to gather the truth from other sources and expose the biased media houses and the boot lickers like Ajai shukla. Let nation come first and lets expose the politicians and media, whoever they are. If the current government is guilty, let them face the wrath as well. India First!
