Indian Armed forced are known to sabotaging all(Except long range missiles which can't be importe) indigenous weapon programs (Eg Arjun and Akash) which army can import because that is what bring big money to the Hi Rank army officials. All weapon systems takes decades to mature which army dose not allow and behaves like kejriwal. Not a single flight of LCA is crashed imagine what they would have done to LCA in case of any crash during development; there is no plane in the world which has not crashed.
Interestingly Army never Import equipment which decreases hardship to its soldiers they do corruptions in food for Soldiers and usurped land in the name of war widows(Adarsh Scam).
Re: Sabotage
by rathi raj on Dec 02, 2015 12:33 PM
Brother, please understand the procurement process. It is not the armed forces who process the import, but it is done at the Defence Ministry level where all of them are the IAS and other civilians. The ministry has no representative from the armed forces and there is no question that they can take their "cuts'. The forces only give their requirements, carry our trials and submit reports with recommendations. After that its the baby of the ministry.
Re: Sabotage
by Narayanan Subramanian on Jul 19, 2015 05:13 PM
While what you have mentioned is partially true, it is also true that DRDO does not deserve to exist. Better to close it down and encourage the bright ones in DRDO to head private industry divns to lead indigenous development and production. There is no Govt enterprise which can do well be it in Defence or Power or Telecom or Road, Rail, sea or air transport or take any industry or sector. Steadily Govt should move towards governing the country and not engage in any manufacture of service or production or research.
Re: Re: Sabotage
by Secular india on Jul 20, 2015 11:00 AM
I can't agree more; at least now DRDO can be converted into a PSU which should participate in bidding process for arm with all private industry; if DRDO and Ordnance factories can make weapons on imported technologies L&T/Bharat forge/Tatas/Mahindras and godrej can do it better let DRDO compete with Indian private sector.
Government must remove disability against private industries in India and must allow 100% FDI in defence with tax benefit if it want selfreliance.
All instances of sabotage and corruption in armed forces must be dealt with in the most stringent manner ( when proven because they have no accountability) and their properties should also be seized by the government.
Re: Sabotage
by Kersi Dotiwalla on Jul 19, 2015 05:32 PM
The sabotage is greatly helped by some Indian \"defence experts & jounlaists\" who are ever ready to write anything & everything negative about Indian designed equipment.
Re: DRDO.... 70 years of Kangi rule
by Motilal on Jul 19, 2015 05:46 PM
well said. I agree with U. Others (so called secular) are also joining with them to destroy
India should make many of the Defense weapons/equipment we import at present gradually in India. That is Modi's mission through Make in India. No doubt, the quality may not be 100% good as all nations faced when they started manufacturing. Eg China and Japan. Over a period of time we acquire the better technology and quality. The foreign countries and arms exporters through their agents will try their best to discredit the effort of India to manufacture here. Our greedy politicians and Babus will also like to buy abroad so that they could get some commission as was the case in Bofors.
India has to strike a balance in what to buy abroad and what to manufacture. We have to start somewhere otherwise we will always remain the biggest importer of arms in the world. Modi is doing the right thing by encouraging the Indian Private sector also to enter the Defense manufacturing sector. Let us be a little patient to see the good results.
The biggest problem is that you just cant keep copying the best of every thing into one item.... what DRDO is always trying to do. You have to be role specific and no system can match two versatile requirements in one design. It is the lack of joint effort in deciding the Quantitative Requirements and Qualitative Requirements specially with respect to army that these situations are recurring. A lesson is closely available in Indian Navy\\\'s development system whereby they are closely associated with the project right from the conception till the induction. I believe that is the way forward for actually realising the make in India dream specially for the army. And Modi cannot be jumping every where at every level. Let every body do his task at his own level with sincerity and you may not even require modi to roam around the world for you.
The need is to develop state of the art weapon systems as part of the "Make in India" initiative.Domestic manufacturers like the TATAS, Mahindras, L&Ts etc should be permitted to take on the mantle of domestic production.We need to develop a level playing field 4 all the potential manufacturers...let the best guy get the contract.Why encourage the DRDO monopoly? As 4 requirements, the Military will always ask 4 futuristic aspects in weapons. Why did the DRDO commit to improbable requirements if they did know from the beginning that the projects were unviable?
Putting all our eggs in the DRDO basket never did the country any good. DRDO is an institutionalized mechanism for bureaucratic postings,serve as an extension 4 political funding, middlemen,nepotism & promoting gross incompetence.
Re: Make in India VS Indeginisation
by Amardeep on Jul 18, 2015 05:28 PM
totally agree with you.... drdo should be left with miscellaneous r&d for which no indian industry is avl or for govt to govt contracts not involving any pvt industry...
Re: Make in India VS Indeginisation
by Jaising pednekar on Jul 19, 2015 04:41 PM
you dont know how lobbyst subotage the R&D and indigenous production efforts ... dont blame DRDO alone .. quality is not there in any of indigenous products .. we still dont have such mindset developed for quality manufacturing...
Re: Make in India VS Indeginisation
by Jaising pednekar on Jul 19, 2015 04:41 PM
you dont know how lobbyst subotage the R&D and indigenous production efforts ... dont blame DRDO alone .. quality is not there in any of indigenous products .. we still dont have such mindset developed for quality manufacturing...
in simple terms, when one goes to a restaurant and orders say dal makhni, minor variations like more or less spicy can be accepted by the cook. But if you keep changing dal makhni to dal fry and then to dal dry you will get dal dry but after a lot of time and waiting, plus wastage of first two orders. This is what the Indian army did with Arjun, now with INSAS and numerous other things. The army is solely to blame for this situation. DRDO cannot be blamed, they develop what they are told to.
Re: The malaise runs much deeper ........
by kaimaal38 on Jul 18, 2015 04:54 PM
DRDO has not been able to master engine tech 4 the MBT tanks or 4 the LCA. It uses imported ones. Even if ur presumption is correct about Army changing its requirements, what takes the DRDO so long to be so unsuccessful? indeginisation is a great concept, but putting Soldiers in the line of Fire without proper equipment is unforgivable. Has the DRDO ever been held accountable for the numerous delays? have heads ever rolled? In case of soldiers, they just pay with their lives.Arm chair criticism of Army is fine, but the truth cannot and should not be obfuscated.
there was solid criticism when arjun tanks were getting developed and now for lca and dhruc lhc.now even the western nations who have a more developed infrastructure to design and develop armaments get it right in the first production line up/they are put to use and whatever deficiency needs to e ameliorated is donebeing mark 2 mark 3 etc.they are developed according to the users requirement.the arjun tanks were even praised y some chinese officers.i am hundred per cent sure that the lca would have already been in sevice if the air force would not have kept on changing the gold post.
Re: there was
by kaimaal38 on Jul 18, 2015 04:59 PM
Do u know that the DRDO has not yet been able to produce Engines 4 the LCA & the Arjun tank? Can u have more solid evidence attesting to their incompetence?
As 4 the Chinese, don't u realize just why it serves Chinese interests to rate the Arjun as the top 10 tanks in the world without it having been ever tested in battle? Domestic audiences may feel proud of the Chinese endorsements but do keep in mind that the Chinese r masters at playing this game of subterfuge.
Re: Re: there was
by Kersi Dotiwalla on Jul 19, 2015 05:40 PM
The type of diesel engine, small compact 1400/1500 hp is manufactured by only ONE manufacturer in the world MTU. And they have been mnaking diesle and other IC engines since decades. Has BEML / HVF Avadi / private manufacturer made such engines ? NO. How many companies design and manufacture jet engines in the world ? Maybe 10 or even less. And they are in business for decades. And no aircraft manufacturer designs and makes jet engines, manufacturers of jet engines are specialised companies who make (have been) only engines NOT aircraft. And please check with the manufacturers how much money, manpower and time is required to design and make 1/2 prototypes of a new jet engine.
For once I am with Bedi. the INSAS & any variant produced by the DRDO is trash and i would recommend it only to my enemies. Hopefully, the DRDO deal doesn't materialise, cos it produces the lousiest infantry weapon that can ever b conceived. u don't need the enemy to harm u, a frequently failing and increasingly unreliable weapon system will do the job more effectively.
As a technocrat I know like our mambers in West, we can design and develop any cutting edge machine.Looks like there are some other reason why DRDO cannot develop armaments and make India selfsufficient.
