Re: How natural clamity became disaster
by Akhilesh on Jun 26, 2013 12:18 PM
You Congress taattu....will your statement be same if someone from family would have stucked into your so called NATURAL CLAMITY?
Re: Re: How natural clamity became disaster
by mahesh negi on Jun 26, 2013 12:31 PM
My friend you have not got my point it became disaster only because of the administration. We all are responsible for it. Nobody is is at all concern about the eco system of our mountains what they are at all concern about is commercialisation. Lack of planning and foresight was evident from the administration it not about Congress or BJP no one is serious about our mountains
Re: Re: Re: How natural clamity became disaster
by Aniket on Jun 30, 2013 01:27 PM
Dumbu this is not natural disasters this is congress and mafia made disaster
It is clear evident that Governance is joke in India. U'kand cheif minister still assume that it is the only duty of army to manage natural disaster. Thousands of people died, government doesn't have any idea how many dead , hw many rescued , how many still there. PM minister is begging for help, this fool U'kand CM rejecting help from Gujarat. What is meaning on that. He is doing politics while people are dying there. He should be shoot down first . Otherwise he will create obstacle for rescue operation.
Re: Governance is Joke in India
by JITENDRA on Jun 26, 2013 12:20 PM
His Cabinet enjoying air trips.They have no moral right to be minister of the holy state.Dismiss the Government & declare President Rule
Re: Governance is Joke in India
by pk shah on Jun 26, 2013 12:21 PM
Congress will even ask to sack NaMo..... Marnish Tiwari will say NaMo is reason.....
Re: Re: Governance is Joke in India
by jatin joshipura on Jun 26, 2013 03:13 PM
sacking modi is not such a bad idea. i am sure central government and president will look into it
Our army and airforce should have been prepared to fight a war in that region as it is Chinese border but they are faltering in performing a rescue operation. If there current performance is any criteria, I shudder to think what they would do in a full scale conflict with China. Honestly, our Army is joke. What would happened if this area was attacked by China? Is this the standard of their response and preparedness? Army is good only in doing PR and fighting Pakistanis (which is mostly a Punjabi and Mohajir (UP, Bihar people) dominated army ). Uttarakhad government has only 2 helicopters. A few of my IAS and IPS friends have not returned homes for a weeek. I know this personally that Army doesn't want to cooperate with civil administration. Civil administration knows local conditions more than army. Air force is better in this regard. Remember Kargil war was won by air force (Mirage 2000s and Israeli laser guided bombs). Army's role in Kargil war complete failure. They lost so many of our young people, didn't procure the military intelligence in time. However, due to their PR effort, they made it look like Army has won the war. Same with battle of Longewala
Re: What a Joke?
by AK Panja on Jun 26, 2013 03:30 PM
I, being an Indian, have also a bit of knowledge about our great IAS & IPS bureaucrat. They almost appear in our hindi feature film as Villain. And police come always after the scene. Then the police have a habit of patting their own back.
Re: What a Joke?
by Bingo on Jun 26, 2013 11:58 AM
Ha hahaaa.. 1) Local authorities are well trained to build temporary bridges... 2) Local authorities knows how to climb mountains... 3) Loval authorities knows how to cross the rivers with rope ways....
I have never seen a f000l like you..because of army and air force thousand lives are saved...local authorities are good for nothing...
Re: Re: What a Joke?
by kamalesh on Jun 26, 2013 01:04 PM
Obviously, I cannot go down to your level. The words one uses, shows one's family background and education. Local authorities know villages, routes, land, because they have to measure and maintain land records. The conclusion regarding Army is inescapable: It has no plan, no routes, no strategy, no supply lines, very few ALGs, no place to land big aircrafts like C-130, very rudimentary preparation to keep supply lines intact in case of war-like emergency in this area
Re: Re: What a Joke?
by nilesh ingle on Jun 26, 2013 12:26 PM
THE CIVIL SERVICE PERSONNEL ARE REALLY UNTRAINED TO HANDLE SUCH SITUATIONS. ARMED FORCES PERSONNEL AFTER SERVING DEFENCE FORCES RETIRE EARLY AND GET EMPLOYED IN PRIVATE SECTOR. THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THE GOVERNMENT SPENT ON TRAINING AND EXPERIENCE OF SUCH PERSONNEL IS THUS WASTED. THERE MUST BE COMPLUSORY CIVIL SERVICE FOR OUR DEFENCE HEROES WHOSE EXPERIENCE WILL COME IN HANDY IN SUCH SITUATIONS.
Re: Re: Re: What a Joke?
by kamalesh on Jun 26, 2013 01:08 PM
Buddy, there are two conclusions: 1: Since civil administration routinely have to measure land and routes, they know about the terrain. Army is not using it because they don't involve civil administration because PR one upmanship. In the process, they screw up the job.
2: The preparedness of army to fight a war in this region is zero. It has no plan, no routes, no strategy, no supply lines, very few ALGs, no place to land big aircrafts like C-130, very rudimentary preparation to keep supply lines intact in case of war-like emergency in this area
Re: What a Joke?
by kuttan on Jun 26, 2013 12:02 PM
Illiterate persons write like this. An attack and natural calamities are different. When Tsunami happened some years ago, even Japan having the best known advanced technology, could not get prepared. The intensity of this Himalayan Tsunami is also similar.
An attack from China cannot be done overnight. The preparations take months together and intelligence inputs gives enough time for Army and Airforce to get prepared.
Natural calamities, happen overnight and intelligence inputs are not there, except our scred cows. IMD.
Instead of appreciating and congratulating our Army and Airforce, if you are trying to demoralise them, you have to be admitted in good mental assylum.
Re: Re: What a Joke?
by kamalesh on Jun 26, 2013 12:49 PM
....And they will decide and let you know the date months in advance. What world are you living in? Was anybody aware of Kargil attack? Element of surprise is a vital element of warfare. Most good generals use that. You are living in fools paradise and parroting typical utter nonsense of communities of this site.
Re: What a Joke?
by m kumar on Jun 26, 2013 12:09 PM
Are you joking, local authority in Ur'Kand. There is no trace for that. Even state government doesn't have any static about the region and it geography. If local authority is there then this disaster would not have been happened. Now U'kand's fool CM is asuming it is amrmy's duty to rescue people from disaster. Where is his Police and bureaucrats. What is the arrangements, even they don't have vehicle or ambulance or hospital to treat people. It is foolisness to call these area as State and Authority.
Re: Re: What a Joke?
by kamalesh on Jun 26, 2013 01:33 PM
Mr. Kumar, Uttarakhand is a very peaceful state. People a re generally law abiding. If you go to Dehradun, you will find girls walking late in the night without any fear. This is something you won't find in places like Delhi. Actually, too many police personnel in state show that the society is not healthy besides increasing the burden on exchequer because police doesn't produce anything. So less number of police personnel is a good thing. Now, lets look at your second point: Now, world over, local authorities don't have resources like 100s of choppers, aircrafts like C-130 and temporary bridge building equipment. Disaster management authorities or armies have such magnitude of equipment. So CM is right that state government doesn't have necessary resources for rescue effort. So, it is clear that this rescue mission is either Army's job or NDRF job. However, one thing is still unclear. This particular area is border with China. What is army's preparedness for war in this area? because the same can be used by the rescue mission. Army has no plan, no routes, no strategy, no supply lines, very few ALGs, no place to land big aircrafts like C-130, very rudimentary preparation to keep supply lines intact in case of war-like emergency in this area. This is inescapable conclusion.
Re: Re: Re: What a Joke?
by m kumar on Jun 26, 2013 01:58 PM
It is funny to see you answer/thinking, the disaster happened in well know tourist spot of India. Do U'kand have any hospital to accommodate the patients, do they have ration to supply for the people who suffer there with out food. Do they have any geography map for rescue operation. Army is stranger for that place , it is responsibility of state government to use the Army with proper guidelines of rescue operation. There is not trace for state governance. If people are so good, no need for policing, all U'kand people are self sufficient why u need a state government and CM there, that is also burden for ex-chequer money. Also I just want to note that all the criminals in the delhi, mumbai are not belong to Delhi, mumbai or chennai. All these criminals are exported from criminal exporting state of India (Bihar, UP, Jarkhand..). Do try to divert people by telling Preparedness of Army or Air Force and war. American army never prepared in Iraq to conquer Iraq. Era of shoulder to shoulder fight is over. Come out from stone age and think like human.
Re: Re: Re: Re: What a Joke?
by kamalesh on Jun 26, 2013 03:21 PM
1: Army is stranger for that place: Thank you and that exactly is my point. This area is very close to border. Why is army stranger to this area? and why it is not prepared for war with plans, sufficient number of ALGs, places to land heavy transport aircraft like AN-32 and C-130 etc? 2: Army doesn't cooperate with civil authorities. I have at least 2 confirmed reports where army has not allowed state employed doctors to be ferried by their choppers. Army runs its own show. This is precisely the problem. If they allow state govt to deploy Army’s resources and use them according to state govt's know-how, it will be much more effective. Army doesn't allow it. 3: People are nice. That's why you need small govt in Uttarakhand, not “no govt”. I have not said crime rate is as low as Switzerland though it is way lower than Delhi, UP, Bihar, Maharashtra etc. 4: I am not diverting people. Given the amount of money we spent on Indian Army, it is way too inefficient. This is a well-researched fact. Please do your research on Indian Army’s preparedness for conflict with China. 5:America never won any war since second world war. Please do your research. This is as true a fact as the fact that there were no WMDs in Iraq to start with. 6:I am thinking right and did my research. If modern conflicts are indications, without efficient and well prepared Army, even US with its high tech air force cannot win wars. They plan to retreat from Afghanistan too!
Re: Re: Re: Re: What a Joke?
by kamalesh on Jun 26, 2013 03:25 PM
Hospitals and general services are typically planned for specic rates and not for disasters. The civic services in the area were sufficient for normal times, not when such a gigantic disaster struck. Thank you for keeping conversation civil.
Re: What a Joke?
by nilesh ingle on Jun 26, 2013 12:32 PM
THE CIVIL SERVICE PERSONNEL ARE REALLY UNTRAINED TO HANDLE SUCH SITUATIONS. ARMED FORCES PERSONNEL AFTER SERVING DEFENCE FORCES RETIRE EARLY AND GET EMPLOYED IN PRIVATE SECTOR. THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THE GOVERNMENT SPENT ON TRAINING AND EXPERIENCE OF SUCH PERSONNEL IS THUS WASTED. THERE MUST BE COMPLUSORY CIVIL SERVICE FOR OUR DEFENCE HEROES WHOSE EXPERIENCE WILL COME IN HANDY IN SUCH SITUATIONS. THE ARMY AND DEFENCE FORCES ARE NOT EFFICIENTLY ABLE TO HANDLE POLITICS AND BUREAUCRACY DUE TO WHICH INNOCENT POEPLE SUFFER. ARMY FULLY COOPERATES WITH THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION BUT THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION DOES NOT WANT TO GIVE CREDIT TO THE ARMY. ARE YOU A FOOL TO SAY THAT YOUR IAS IPS FRIENDS ARE BUSY IN THEIR "OFFICES" MAKING HOLLOW PLANS FOR A WEEK AND THE DEFENCE FORCES ARE SITTING TIGHT? YOU MUST BE A REAL FOOL!!!
Re: Re: What a Joke?
by kamalesh on Jun 26, 2013 01:13 PM
Obviously, I cannot go down to your level. The words one uses, shows one's family background and education. Local authorities know villages, routes, land, because they have to measure and maintain land records. Army can easily use this information but they won't because they are into PR one upmanship and their Lt Gen has to give press conference otherwise people will know how inefficient and corrupt they are
The conclusion regarding Army is inescapable: It has no plan, no routes, no strategy, no supply lines, very few ALGs, no place to land big aircrafts like C-130, very rudimentary preparation to keep supply lines intact in case of war-like emergency in this area
Re: Re: Re: What a Joke?
by yogalakshmi on Jun 26, 2013 04:12 PM
Respected Sirs, Please don't talk whatever your think about our Army people. Can't you hear the news that some 10 army personals were killed during rescue operation? Are they inactive? If they are not respond to this natural calamity means, they will not lost their lives. Can't your hear that the 40% of INDO TIBETIAN BORDER POLICE personnel belongs to Uttarkhand & many ITBP people denied to go on leave which they applied earlier. They are considering the rescue operation as their personnel work. Even though many army persons were sick they denied to go on leave. If they are not in borders, we the people in india cannot live peacefully. It is a fragile place, raining continuously. The river is also flooding. They are doing their best to save the lives.
Re: Re: Re: Re: What a Joke?
by kamalesh on Jun 26, 2013 04:56 PM
The ordinary soldier of Armed forces is just like you and me, frustrated with circumstances in which they work, the policies, strategies, corruption, nepotism. It is the institution which is sick and needs mending. It is the people who get promoted to higher ups like Maj Gens, Lt Gens and Gens, who are hand and glove with corrupt elite of the country. These higher ups get kick backs for buying unwanted equipment. The effeciency of such higher ups was never in doubt. Why? Because it was zero! You want to know the reason for their zero efficiency and sky high corruption? The reason is that the qualities which made them Maj Gens, Lt Gens or Gens was “sucking upto powerful politicians of the country”, not being a “great military leader”. The ordinary soldiers, Lts, Majors, Captains die..while the higher ups loot the country. Ever wondered how a lot of generals and higher ups in the army end up as governors and some even CMs? Can it be without being hand and glove with politicians. I, you and soldiers are same...Our brothers die in line of duty, we toil daily for a decent life...and these suck ups, Army higher ups are no different than corrupt politicians..Please do not forget scams Adarsh...There are 2 types of Army people..one who take their work as a call of duty..and others who get promoted to decision making positions of Armed forces..this lot is no different from corrupt politicians...this is what is eating the institution. This is the reason military
Re: What a Joke?
by SUDARSHAN SINGH RAWAT on Jun 30, 2013 10:37 AM
why are you anti-army? fighting chinese and disaster relief are two different things!and mr knowall , unless the ground is physically captured and controlled, no air action serves it's purpose. pl recall usa in vietnam and afghanistan!!
