A stable, liberal and democratic Pakistan is in the interest of the World and South Asia in general and India in particular.
However, the best way forward to keep the army apolitical and fanatics at bay is a broad consensus among the political establishment not to convert their ideological differences into personal animosity.
The paradox in Pakistan is the leader in power banishes all others from the country. This is preposterous. In a democracy one party or a group of parties can be in power, but the opposition too represents a large section of public opinion and their leaders cannot be banished. This has enabled the army in Pakistan to play one leader against another and one party against another. This has effectively scuttled democracy and spawned dictatorship and radicalisation.
If the political class is able to arrive at a consensus on respecting democracy and maintaining their competitive politics only to the extent of ideological differences then both the army and the radicals can be reigned in.
Re: Need for cohesion within the civilian political establishment
by rohit Nagpal on Jan 07, 2011 03:22 PM
I agree with your views and specially that a stable Pakistan would be in good interest of India but you didn't provide a solution here. Reasons might be many but solutions and approach is missing, specially because of non willingness on part of politicians and Pakistani army.
Re: Re: Need for cohesion within the civilian political establish
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jan 07, 2011 04:46 PM
Read the post properly. The solution is the political class must get over its inclination to personal animosity and keep their competitive politics only to the extent of ideological differences. No leader in power should banish all other leaders. What is happening there is "competitive banishment".
Re: Re: Re: Need for cohesion within the civilian political estab
by rohit Nagpal on Feb 27, 2011 11:50 AM
I did read it. Imtiaz what I feel is that a practical solution might be lying in the media becoming more responsible and mass acknowledging the efforts by handful of people who wants to bring stability.
Re: Need for cohesion within the civilian political establishment
by Vivek Harry on Jan 07, 2011 03:07 PM
anybodycan fantasizeof astable liberalanddemocratic pakistan wherewas itfor 60years
Re: Re: Need for cohesion within the civilian political establish
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jan 07, 2011 03:11 PM
I wish you had read what I wrote properly, and then commented.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Need for cohesion within the civilian political e
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jan 07, 2011 03:21 PM
Not like that. You are not able to think which is why you feel resorting to nuisance is the best way forward.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Need for cohesion within the civilian politic
by JGN on Jan 07, 2011 03:40 PM
ThePakiMullahs have already issued Fartwas againstDemocrcy!! Democracy is against their Religion. They are still dreaming about the pre-NationArbia where some three and a halfCaliphate existed some 1300 years back!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Need for cohesion within the civilian politic
by Vivek Harry on Jan 07, 2011 03:27 PM
Islamis notcompatible withhumanity whatto speakofdemocracy
Re: Re: Re: Re: Need for cohesion within the civilian political e
by Jayaraman V on Jan 07, 2011 04:13 PM
guys like imtiaz may be a minority in Pak, but must be encouraged for a better Pak in future. Even if is only dreams, it can be powerful to become reality later.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Need for cohesion within the civilian politic
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jan 07, 2011 04:41 PM
Jayaram : democracy does not happen automatically, it has to be built and then sustained.
No religion is compatible with democracy. All religions are feudal in character.
No society can have any difference of opinion with spirituality, but religion according to me tries to organise society along feudal lines and therefore should be banished from public space.
Re: Need for cohesion within the civilian political establishment
by onnu kadaise on Jan 07, 2011 03:44 PM
Refer the website of MiddelEast Forum and read what the Islamic Professor from Saudi Arabia says.
They claim Taquiyya is my Religion. The Hatered Muslims have on the Non-Muslims is the real factor for the growth of Islam. He Admits. I do not know orginial Islam. But current Islamic leaders - refer the DIFFERENCES of Non-Muslims and generate a Hatered on Non-Muslisms.
You can see differences between bother of your hands, and even within your fingers. So one of your hand cut the another - how it looks like? Earlier ISI and its gang cultivated hatred among its Muslim recruits – referring different culture and worship of Hindus. So they bombed Hindu temples (and even 9/11) to make the world Islamic. Now they see the differences within themselves as Shia, Sunni and Ahmedia and not ready to accept others version, resulting to the same old method of eliminating differences (taught by ISI) – suppressing the others view by killing others.
Pak started harvesting fruits from its own seeds. Can you tell one place (including your Holy places) where you can cultivate Apple and Harvest Orange? Still Islmists belive by killing others and disrespecting other Religion – they are going to get respect and single Islamic world across the earth.
(Islamists did this earlier in Kashmir and after killing & eliminating the Hindu Pandits and even Muslims who supports India – now demand Azadi - after killing others who fo
Re: Re: Need for cohesion within the civilian political establish
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jan 07, 2011 04:49 PM
Please dont talk of Saudi Arabia and the Wahabi House of Saud. They are the original satans who have wrecked havoc on my religion and the world.
It is nice to see you read websites, please also read what Wahabism is all about and how the house of saud is the originator of all fanaticism in the world.
Why we keep asking these questions again and again,whose answers were known long back and related to History. The people of this country are intolerent towards humanity,beleive in voilence,do not beleive in peace,do not beleive in economic progress. They are descendants of Moghuls,Turks,Arabian Looters. So they are not fit to live in civilised world.They do not beleive in Democracy hence want to be ruled by Dictators/Army/.
Re: Is Pakistani Army Preparing to Take......................
by JAKE on Jan 07, 2011 03:00 PM
Would not be surprised if that happens. Their army and ISI are fed by extremist feelings and have sympathy for the jihadis. So the time is ripe for them to takeover as the whole nation is living in fear of the jihadis
Re: Re: Is Pakistani Army Preparing to Take..................
by X on Jan 07, 2011 03:03 PM
Every time I read the comments about Pakistan on rediff it appears as if that country is about to explode. And fair enough too. The media is quite fixated with that region and even a small incident is blown out of proportion. For e.g. last year about 3000 people lost their lives in acts of terrorism. Lets say that the official figures were not correct and the real number was 15000. Thats only 0.0075% of the whole population. Which means that most people wont even notice or care about whats going around. Reminds me of the Blitz when Hitler chose to bomb civilian areas of London. No doubt many lives were lost but London functioned normally because the proportion of loss was quite small. The only worry about Pak is that if the current liberal government is overthrown by extremists. That will be a cause of worry for everyone.
Re: Re: Re: Is Pakistani Army Preparing to Take..............
by Vivek Harry on Jan 07, 2011 03:05 PM
softiegovt can'trepeal blasphemylaw howdare youcall itliberal
Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Pakistani Army Preparing to Take..........
by JAKE on Jan 07, 2011 03:17 PM
MR X, U seem to be very fond of Pakistan. Possibly u are unaware of as to who calls the shots there? And what is more they are suffering due to their own sins.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Pakistani Army Preparing to Take......
by JAKE on Jan 07, 2011 03:14 PM
What liberals are u talking off? they are controlled by the hawks. There is no such thing as liberals for it is a sin to be one in a country like Pakistan
Re: Re: Re: Is Pakistani Army Preparing to Take..............
by JAKE on Jan 07, 2011 03:16 PM
U seem to be very fond of Pakistan. Possibly u are unaware of as to who calls the shots there? And what is more they are suffering due to their own sins.
Re: Re: Is Pakistani Army Preparing to Take..................
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jan 07, 2011 03:06 PM
Jake : Please read my post above and give your comments.
Re: Is Pakistani Army Preparing to Take......................
by Vivek Harry on Jan 07, 2011 02:59 PM
andtheir armywants toinvade indiaat theearliest whilecongress willstop itwithcharkha
Don't bother about pakistan instead bother about India where every nationalist should commit to vote out the terrorist freindly Congress govt if they want India and its culture to survive
Re: Re: Re: i
by X on Jan 07, 2011 03:05 PM
It took four days to free taj hotel. I think we need to be better prepared and apart from that we cant wage a war with Pak as long as China supports pak.
Re: Re: Re: Re: i
by JAKE on Jan 07, 2011 03:50 PM
India is not at all interested in even an iota of land of Pakistan. Let them do whatever they want to, it is none of our bothersome as long as that they dont trouble us
Re: Re: Re: Re: i
by onnu kadaise on Jan 07, 2011 03:52 PM
it tooks 4 days because we have to take card of UnARmed Civlians.
Pakstani failed. Our Army in 1971 arrested more than one lack Pak Soldiers by DISARMING them. (they are not unarmed).
But Pakistanis cannot accept the defeat - now found it easy to kill DISARMED civlians - because of their Religious teachings.
Even on 26/11 - when one brave Yadav fired from and old 303 (british left this in India while leaving 1947) Kasab and his friend went back and turned to otherside to kill civilians.
They are not brave. They even need AK47 to kill civilians. But our soldiers need just 303 in good condition.
Even ATS head 3 police died because they trusted the Bullet Proof they weared given by our Govt.
We Indians should be grateful to Jinna for the removal this shit 'TERRORISTAN'from India. Otherwise whole world would have been spit at India for carrying this shit in our body. Now we can progress without this head ache.
Re: Thanks to Jinna!
by X on Jan 07, 2011 02:33 PM
So basically you will be happy to give away Kashmir too ? Then North East state and you will be very grateful when the size of India shrinks to 10% of its current size ?
Re: Re: Thanks to Jinna!
by amar on Jan 07, 2011 02:36 PM
Kashmir and northeast are not a problem these are basically create by congress ,Remove congress and these problems will disappear
Re: Re: Re: Thanks to Jinna!
by X on Jan 07, 2011 02:42 PM
BJP ruled for many years they didnt even try to fix these problem. And yes they didnt even pretend that they were trying
This country called Pakisthan iks curse on mankind. India should be thankful to GOD that this cancer was amputed at right time. Partition was blessing in disguise. Else india would have been in the Grips of these Jihadi elelemnts and Congress the rotton party , to be in power would have been meak spectoattors to these Cruel Jihadi Elements .So thank god , porkisthan is out of India oong back.
Re: Uncivlised Civilisation
by Indian Citizen on Jan 07, 2011 02:19 PM
We must thank pre-independence leaders whom we many times accuse for partition. We should be greatful to Jinnah and Nehru and to some extent Bupu too that unknowingly they did the right thing otherwise, our Congees would not have left any stone unturned to devide this country in sub-muslim castes too.
Re: Uncivlised Civilisation
by ajay sinha on Jan 07, 2011 02:49 PM
you get father raping child ,bodygaurds killing masters and and MLA being killed in broad daylights in civilized India as well donot comment on anytghing and everything without getting inti details of the circumstances of the events
Re: Re: Uncivlised Civilisation
by onnu kadaise on Jan 07, 2011 03:57 PM
Still you allowed to live with opposite view in India-majorly.
If you disaprove even one action of one part of action of the Fundementalists - they will kill you in Pakistan.
Islamists did this earlier in Kashmir and after killing & eliminating the Hindu Pandits and even Muslims who supports India – now demand Azadi - after killing others who forms part of Majority (but against Fundementalists & ISI view).
Re: Re: Re: Uncivlised Civilisation
by ajay sinha on Mar 13, 2011 09:49 PM
this is not view .This is how you see things and start comparing.Right will right and wrong will always be wrong irrespective of geographical/cutural boundries,But we tend see a right as wrong when our intrst colloide
PLEASE FORGET THE WORD PAKISTAN, WHY YOU WANT WORRY ABOUT PAKISTAN THIS ISSSUE NOT AT ALL BELONGS TO INDIA, PLEASE CONCENTRATE OTHER ISSUES IN INDIA CAN SET RIGHT, PLEASE IGNORE PAKISTAN, PLEASE IGNORE
Re: WHY TO WORRY
by Premson Baby on Jan 07, 2011 02:00 PM
correct, even pakistani people away from their country are not worried about. They knew about the end. But as a country only the defence people need to worry, others please worry about our own issues.
