The threat of China makes India gravitate naturally towards US led West. The point to ponder presently is the issue regarding payment of money legitimately owed to Iran for petroleum supplies.
The payment was Germany, after the first tranche, has been halted, after objections from US and Israel. These two nations are emerging as the biggest security related supplier. The kind of control, they would have the audacity to exercise on India by constricting defence procurements can be easily imagined.
India will risk being continually subject to arbitrary and US interest driven lobby pressures. Their ability to roll out strategy deployment in a programmatic fashion with a series of concerted moves in a wide array of domains and via multiple nations is well known to Indians. US, and its allies often act like a wolf pack to safeguard their supposed interests, and are likely to do so at the expense of vulnerable developing India.
The Iran payment stoppage incident establishes once again that the trust so far has been only a one way street.
The need for policy independence, even if comes at the expense of distancing ourselves from Security Council expansion, entry into N-clubs is critical.
It is this political will to safeguard policy independence which shall generate the integrity and motivation amongst our immense human resources for alternate solution.
Re: points to ponder on risks ahead
by Ramesh on Apr 06, 2011 05:09 AM
The pressure on payment to Iran is just a test case to test Indian political will, to determine perhaps which way the winds blow.
There is an influential constituency which seeks annihilation of Iranian power base. The same constituency would then be tempted to move against Pakistan as well. These strategists perhaps bank of Indian elite to kowtow their designs, specially when Pakistan comes into focus.
But there are serious risks ahead and primacy hopefully would be accorded to Near Abroad policy.
Parallel can be drawn with the context faced in Iran to the battle of Plassey.
If designs on Iran succeed, then next vulnerable nation would be Pakistan. Which can be as disastrous to India as was the fall of Tipu Sultan.
These doomsday scenario can be averted by demonstrating a strong political will to never allow any dilution in the long standing Non-alignment policy.
Re: Re: points to ponder on risks ahead
by Ramesh on Apr 06, 2011 05:15 AM
If US relents and permits India to pay the legitimate dues to Iran through international currency markets it largely controls, it would imply sanity has returned in their policy making.
Else, the Iran payment issue needs to be perceived as an early warning signal of the programmatic policy deployment any continued hardening of this stance would be adequately credible signal to be wary of motives and future designs.
Re: Re: Re: points to ponder on risks ahead
by Ramesh on Apr 06, 2011 05:21 AM
We need to understand that permanent Security Council membership can be earned only when US and other nations find it too risky to oppose India.
They will then find a facing saving legal formula by legitimizing Veto rights for India.
Re: Re: Re: Re: points to ponder on risks ahead
by Ramesh on Apr 06, 2011 05:22 AM
Prez Obama may be make easy speech, but the Emersonian dictum of might making right is what USA stand for and shall ever will.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: points to ponder on risks ahead
by Ramesh on Apr 06, 2011 06:56 AM
Had US been weighing options on Israeli contention on Iran versus India, the decision would have been different. It is clear that US itself has pressured Germany for other factors.
Likely candidate is G-2 nexus and when this is combined with Pakistan, India becomes most vulnerable.
Whether Pakistan shall capitalize on this opportunity to join hand with G2 is a moot question and this if it happens, can make India pretty vulnerable. US perhaps expects India to fall in line.
But India is more likely to safeguard by drawing upon resources within.
It would be safer for India to opt out of making shrill anti-US noise, leftist are prone to make, and instead negotiate steadfastly.
To negotiate with US on a later date with newer options would make US more sensitive towards the long term risks they put themselves by such tactical plays.
about muslims in china, we want to maintain things the way they are. Muslims of today in china (and central asia) were shamans of yesterday. those places could become a free state like central asian state. least of indian concern.
the ex-Russian central asian states are now a cat and mouse game between Russia and the West plus Isreal. I have been there.
Russia was dictatorship and suppression over those central asians who were converted from shamanism to islam. Now it is CAT (videshi Russian, west plus isreal) and MOUSE (breakaway states) game between the two. many different cats to choose for mouse, all cats hand in gloves with same goals.
dagistan and caucus is still under russia and they have to decide whether to drain their resource in those region or use it for Russians. Culturally all regions of central asia are close to india.
Shamans of siberia and elsewhere (balkans, etc of east europe) were forcefully converted to orthodox christians.
Some are still non-overt shamans, so western europeans go there to show we are shamans of americas to cool their rebellion while be hand and glove with russians. thus to keep the rebellion away from shamans converted to islam.
Patel - agreed, None of the various videshi blocks who have hidden alliance are friends, they are in business to make desh nirbhaar on them.
win will really happen when there is wisdom in asia, till that time, we need deterrence, no dependence on videshi weapons. yes, there are mini-nuclear
Re: patel and loan shark
by D S on Apr 06, 2011 03:01 AM
Being Shaman-Vedic and buddist were earliest times in these regions of Asia-africa, East and North Europe ALL the way to Bali-Sumatra and native Americans. Shamnism practices extend all the way to kalahari people of Africas, mangola, etc.
Re: patel and loan shark
by E darwin on Apr 06, 2011 02:19 AM
Loan Shark- ultimate goal is to befriend the remaining shamans of mongolia to siberia and convert them to Christianity by appreciating their shamnism or by force (stalin time when their shaman children were taken).
Re: Re: patel and loan shark
by E darwin on Apr 06, 2011 02:30 AM
and also to keep them at distance from shamans who were converted to islam. the cat Angrez/etc are playing more games, they are importing arabs into those regions to rekindle religious sentiments to fade away russian cat influence. Germans CATS are playing their own things, some marrying, some getting them into bar and drink culture. Never know.
Re: patel and loan shark
by E darwin on Apr 06, 2011 02:17 AM
... yes, there are mini-nuclear weapon which can be used within indian territory during incursion and at border as well. their impact is only on the invading troops. About superior weapons of videsh, that can be countered if deshis really took deshi approach to counter it and not the CURRENT kickback approach.
Re: Re: Re: Join the Chinese
by E darwin on Apr 06, 2011 01:33 AM
DONT GIVE ANYTHING AWAY to china or pak, NEVER because it open a box which will want more. ASK THEM FOR WISDOM. we will never accept racial or religion division. Can china give away muslim portion of their land who are genetically or religiously different. china should reconcile that they have tibet.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Join the Chinese
by E darwin on Apr 06, 2011 01:37 AM
i have seen videshis stroking false pride in chinese vs japanese based on their war or false pride/differentiation/superiority on china vs india. Same between india and pak.
Re: Join the Chinese
by Virendra Patel on Apr 06, 2011 01:55 AM
NEVER MAKE FRIENDS WITH CHINA AND PAKISTAN, ISRAEL, USA, RUSSIA and GREAT BRITAIN - FULL STOP. INDIA HAS TO MANAGE ON HER OWN.
Re: Re: Join the Chinese
by E darwin on Apr 06, 2011 02:00 AM
None of the various videshi blocks who have hidden alliance are friends, they are in business to make desh nirbhaar on them.
win will really happen when there is wisdom in asia, till that time, we need deterrence, no dependence on videshi weapons. yes, there are mini-nuclear weapon which can be used within indian territory during incursion and at border as well. their impact is only on the invading troops. About superior weapons of videsh, that can be countered if deshis really took deshi approach to counter it and not the CURRENT kickback approach.
Re: Join the Chinese
by rupesh verma on Apr 06, 2011 01:25 AM
chinese will only be friend with india when we offer them arunachal pradesh and kashmir........is tht wht u want?
Re: Re: Join the Chinese
by Loan Shark on Apr 06, 2011 01:28 AM
china has never asked for kashmir ... and some of the land is disputed since the British era.
Parts of Arunachal are also disputed as CHINA disputes the maps given to India by Brits.
Giving away a piece of land for peace is not a bad trade
Re: Re: Re: Join the Chinese
by E darwin on Apr 06, 2011 01:32 AM
DONT GIVE ANYTHING AWAY, NEVER. we will never accept racial or religion division. Can china give away muslim portion of their land who are genetically different and more turkish. china should reconcile that they have tibet.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Join the Chinese
by E darwin on Apr 06, 2011 02:11 AM
we want to maintain things the way they are. Muslims of today were shamans of yesterday. It could become a free state like central asian state.
the ex-Russian central asian states are now a cat and mouse game between Russia and the West plus Isreal. I have been there.
Russia was dictatorship and suppression over those central asians who were converted from shamanism to islam. Now it is CAT (videshi Russian, west plus isreal) and MOUSE (breakaway states) game between the two. many different cats to choose for mouse, all with same goals. dagistan and caucus is still under russia and they have to decide whether to drain their resource in those region or use it for Russians. Shamans of siberia were forcefully converted to orthodox christians. Some are still non-overt shamans, so western europeans go there to show we are shamans of americas as well to cool their rebellion while be hand and glove with russians. thus to keep them away from shamans converted to islam.
Did you know, videshis when they mine for mine/metal or explore to find oil/metals, they can equipments that can bring fissured to cause earthquake with right amount of dynamites and mini-nuclear bombs.
they can build below the land and sea surface lateral and vertical tunnels. videshis have nuclear powered submarines, ships which can assist. but fools are nations such as india-pak-china that dont cooperate.
Recently a machine dug through the entire Alps mountain.
yes, there are mini-nuclear weapon which can be used within indian territory during incursion and at border as well. their impact is only on the invading troops.
About superior weapons of videsh, that can be countered if deshis really took deshi approach to counter it and not the kickback approach.
Indians smitten by technology bug and kickbacks
not just rajas-tatas-ambanis and karnatak, Maha, AP ...
Even Maya advisors got smitten by technology bug. And now it is Maya turn to be bitten by technology bug. For investment - UP-single-window-online-suite-to-integrate-with-facebook. What a fall. DEPENDING ON VIDESHI TECHNOLOGY IS TRAP... a very big trap which take you deeper and deeper in name of modernization/efficiency/etc/. Add a whole new layer of burden and nirbharta. Are we not deep into this trap.
A nation with bicycles, closer offices and closer shops, bus transport to airport and controlled population is certainly easier to live and far better to manage.
India should not enter the arms race because of the military might of another country. India should focus on its own development activities like infrastructure, education, telecommunication, public transport etc. India has the great nuclear might, which can deter other countries for posing any threat.
Re: Defence expenditure should be mimized.
by E darwin on Apr 06, 2011 01:13 AM
yes, there are mini-nuclear weapon which can be used within indian territory during incursion and at border as well. their impact is only on the invading troops.
About superior weapons of videsh, that can be countered if deshis really took deshi approach to counter it and not the kickback approach.
Indians smitten by technology bug and kickbacks
not just rajas-tatas-ambanis and karnatak, Maha, AP ...
Even Maya advisors got smitten by technology bug. And now it is Maya turn to be bitten by technology bug. For investment - UP-single-window-online-suite-to-integrate-with-facebook. What a fall. DEPENDING ON VIDESHI TECHNOLOGY IS TRAP... a very big trap which take you deeper and deeper in name of modernization/efficiency/etc/. Add a whole new layer of burden and nirbharta. Are we not deep into this trap.
A nation with bicycles, closer offices and closer shops, bus transport to airport and controlled population is certainly easier to live and far better to manage.
In fact, China is puting very limited percentage of China's GDP into military no matter what number you quote.
On the contrary, India is in buying-spree in the international weapon market: US$ 12.6 billion for jet fighters, US%5.8 billion for C-17 transporters, US$10.0 billion for subs, US$30.0 billion for the 5th generation fighters with Russia, US$2.9 billion for a refurbished air carrier from Russia, US$647 million for 145 M777 cannons from US..... India is spending huge a mount of money in buying weapons like crazy even 42% if Indian kids have malnurishment problem. How much the defense department can be satisfied on earth?
China's rising is not alarming, the relative going down of India is alarming. Don't always belame others for India's own problem.
Re: China is a US$6 trillion economy now
by rupesh verma on Apr 06, 2011 01:29 AM
buddy.....over all development is necessary..u r rite tht infants malnourishment should be acknowledged, but in this world it is far necessary to protect our sovereignity. If today china attacks india must be self sufficient enough to save its fellow citizens.
Re: China is a US$6 trillion economy now
by Manish Mendiratta on Apr 06, 2011 12:41 AM
you should look at the numbers. China's spending is way ahead. People in China are very poor just like India. There's no one close to threat them but defense spending continues to grow. US and Europe cannot threaten them anymore as their economies are dependent on China. In my opinion they could be next Japan.
