The Hindu-Muslim situation in India continues to be a peculiar lopsided situation where the state just refuses to recognise the danger of islamic ideology in the name of a spurious and devious interpretation of the word 'secularism'. I remember a case where an elderly lady known to me was knocked down by a public bus in the heart of Mumbai. It was a minor incident but the lady dragged the state-owned bus company to court. In the end, the court ruled that the bus was stationery and that the lady had come up and bumped into it. It was sacrosanct as a legal judgement and it was accepted as such and the matter ended with no compensation for the lady. Therefore Godhra is a NO-NO but following riots is a YES-YES but only insofar as the Muslim casualties are concerned. Kashmiri pandits are for all practical purposes persona non grata in these debates on TV or any other 'secular' forum. The Hindu is incapable of being dominant ion the debate in India which ironically, is a 80% plus Hindu state. 'Vande Mataram' is all I can say.
Re: Tragedy and farce.
by Akram on May 07, 2010 04:36 PM
Godhra was a micreant is a act of few criminals and they should be punished under the law. While followed riots had the tacid support of the administration which is deplorable and condemed.
In a democratic country all are equal and there is no such thing of any domination( still in tacid a section of hindus dominate the entire system).
But the case you are talking about the bus accident, is nothing to do with the your discussion. Also you had accepted the verdict of court as final will you be able to accept same in case of Ramjanma Bhoomi if the case judgement was not in your favour.
Re: Re: Tragedy and farce.
by sachin johri on May 07, 2010 08:47 PM
Akram
RJB-BM case was the explosion of Hindu sentiments since 1101 when outsiders started to invade India. Since I was there and I still have feeling that that was the biggest mental victory against suppression of invaders for me and also was the happy moment of my life but that was not against any particular religion but to save our existence. Since my ancestors sacrificed their life for RJB so it was a prod moment for me.
I will keep on fighting for RJB even if court gives any order and I have firm belief that courts in India will give in the favor of RJB not for BM
There is a significant difference between an intellectual discussion which is based on proven facts and motivated propaganda in the veil of an open discussion.
India was under the rule of Mughals and Christians for the past 1000 years. Both these groups perpetrated violence on ordinary hindus reducing the country from the wealthiest and industrious nation to that of a third world. It is ridiculous that descendents of these terror regimes or forcefully converted people should create a platform in MIT and bash indians. When these guys were in india, their education was paid for by the now blamed violent hindus. By the way, How many riots were started by Hindus and how many by others groups? Why these intellectually challenged guys do not talk about that? Who started Gothra violence? These imbeciles believe that the hindu keep bending these nuts will keep banging or what? They all should be thankful that they still are allowed to call India their home in spite of their treacherous acts.
Re: Institutional violence
by Akram on May 07, 2010 04:41 PM
Theva what stopped to make india a powerfull country in post independent era. If britishers had looted the wealth it with the help of (a known case) some indian communities like Chettiars in Tamilnadu, who still hold SIR, RAO BAHADUR titles provided for their faithfulness to Union Jack betraying the mother nation.
Riots being initiated by any group is deplorable, so if Godhra riots would have been initiated by hindus is it accepted to Theva(Fake name)
Re: Re: Institutional violence
by ritesh ranjan on May 07, 2010 06:34 PM
"...so if Godhra riots would have been initiated by hindus is it accepted to Theva(Fake name)"
answer: u should read his whole statement... i will quote the relevant portion for you:
"...How many riots were started by Hindus and how many by others groups? ..."
so if you are intelligent enough, you know the answer to your question
Congress has mastered this art to a "T"- it's their trump card- their ace, in their divide-and-rule strategy of monopolizing power in this fetid, primitive, underdeveloped, backward, poverty-stricken land. Sixty-plus years of riotous Cong misrule has created a disaster of monumental proportions that even the Great One himself might find "un-fixable".
Maybe the report is poiting out the problems in riots organized by Hindu groups but then why does it not mention the problems created by other groups why does it keep mum on those ??
To have a balanced understanding both problems have to be mentioned and discussed with due importance.
The problem in India is Hindus get all the blame while others do not get blamed at all but rather get all concessions under name of secularism.
We need to be balanced if we have to see some sense of eaulity come through.
Not only is this report biased but it plainly stinks of a deliberate attempt to undermine the credibility of Hindus and India.
Re: Re: Maybe this is right
by deepak on May 07, 2010 08:29 AM
nope..we need to expose Islam..a dangerous supremacist fascist ideology that invokes hate of everyone that does not accept its desert harshness. Islam is cause most of the worlds problem since 100s of years now.
We Indians are the most insecure people in the world. Why shouldn't ills of our country be discussed? For how long will we behave like ostrich?
The modus operandi of many Hindutva organisations is simple -- brand anyone who opposes their viewpoint as "pseudo-secularist" or "sickularist". The tactic is schoolboyish, but effective in whitewashing an entire set of civil society as anti-India.
This is not very different from the tactic used by Hitler's Nazis, Stalin's Commies and Milosevic's Serbs.
Re: Why?
by Rahul Sr on May 07, 2010 10:09 AM
You are extremely naive and ill-read while at the same time you believe you are progressive and well read. A Mcaulay-monkey if you will.
Re: Why?
by ng on May 06, 2010 05:01 PM
Harish Menon - Stop making derogatory remarks against your own country.
The ills of our country should be discussed. No issues with that. But, I don't understand the left leaning and the focus only on one part of the problem.
Shouldn't the root causes of India's problems be discussed too?
In fact, shouldn't that be the starting point of any discussion?
The modus operandi of some communists is to label every Indian action as horrific to earn brownie points from Saudi. And this is not much different to the appeasement policy and hypocrisy of British.
Re: Why?
by Saurabh Goswami on May 07, 2010 03:07 PM
Harish why do you not go to pakistan and saudi and say the same for what minorities are facing there? Because your stinkingass will be roasted and you will be beheaded for defaming Islaam. You are a bloody mutherf**ker of a Hindu who must realise the irony that you can express your idiotic fantasies openly as Hindus are tolerant enough to allow your kind to be free and happuy despite doing so.
Re: Why?
by Against Pseudos on May 07, 2010 09:00 AM
Menon:
Very well said. To your point, the "Hindutva organisations" actually made a very very valid statement - "Discuss the whole country, if you have to".... Whereas MIT (and YOU) seem to be happy discussing only what suits you.. Isn't Kashmir in India? :)
Omar Khalidi Collections Reference Librarian Either he is masquerading as a Professor or Rediff is glorifying him. Just see libguides mit edu and type Omar Khalidi in search, you will get his Collections Reference librarian web site.
Re: Re: This fellow OMar is not a Professor
by Against Pseudos on May 07, 2010 09:02 AM
NG:
Staff... eh? Read the above article again:
Professor Omar Khalidi of MIT, one of the three main organizers of the event who was a particular target of the protesters, said almost all the participants received communications from the protesters asking them not to attend the event.
Re: Re: Re: This fellow OMar is not a Professor
by ng on May 07, 2010 11:02 AM
AP - I guess it all depends on which sentence did we pay more attention to. In my case "The main organizers were Omar Khalidi, an MIT staff member, and MIT faculty members Haimanti Roy and Balakrishnan Rajagopal."
Re: Re: This fellow OMar is not a Professor
by Harish Menon on May 06, 2010 12:43 PM
And how often have you seen janitors speaking at seminars? If you didn't know, MIT does not stand for Madhubani Institute of Tha Tha Thaiyya!
Re: Re: Re: Re: This fellow OMar is not a Professor
by Fluffy Kumar on May 06, 2010 04:37 PM
There is some truth to what JGN says- A recent Ph.D. from MIT (Neuroscience)- a female from Pakistan, was caught aiding Taliban in Afghanistan and arrested and prosecuted in USA. Fact.
MIT should stick top hosting science conventions- I attended some of them- and they are terrific.
Re: Re: Re: This fellow OMar is not a Professor
by ng on May 06, 2010 12:50 PM
And by speaking, I mean speaking 'IN' the seminar and not 'ABOUT' the seminar.
Re: Re: Re: Re: This fellow OMar is not a Professor
by Saurabh Goswami on May 07, 2010 03:13 PM
Don't waste your time on poor Harish. Pity him and his kind. In fact why don't you spill for his Hajj pilgrimage-- on condition he does not return.
Re: Pls answer some simple questions
by Mr Walker on May 06, 2010 12:43 PM
See this is not discussed ever in all these so called "elite" educational institutes.
Re: Pls answer some simple questions
by Rajesh zha on May 06, 2010 12:30 PM
These shamelss congi govts and their pet media will never discuss these facts.. They discuss post godhra riots and not burning train They discuss killing of cong MP Ehsan Jafri and not that he gave shelter to godhra train criminals They discuss encounter of SOharabuddin and not that he was a smugler and was an aid of daud and ISI Can't expect any good from b*strd cong and NDTV and IBN
Re: Pls answer some simple questions
by njdesi on May 06, 2010 03:46 PM
Well why dont have similar conference and put your point rather blaming MIT conference ...
MIT better first study its 'institutionalised racial riots' and ‘prejudices’ against the blacks in the U.S. Even President Obama himself was dragged into it couple of months ago. Number of Hollywood movies of seventies depict how such riots are engineered by the whites and how the white police connived. With the exception of 1984,1992 and 2002 riots, in India the religious riots were primarily in the aftermath of partiton and were mostly spontaneous riots between two 'equal' factions. Does MIT have any idea as to why there are no Hindu-Muslim riots in Pakistan ? The famous India writer late Nirad c Coudhery, who was based in Britain has dealt with the subject in detail in his book 'the continent of a circle'. MITians better read it.He says … make one community ‘second class citizens’and riots will stop …and that is the secret of religious riot free Pakistan and not because that it is a very just society for minorities. Riots in any society normally can happen only between two 'equal' factions and once they are made unequal there will be no riots. This is not to justify or glorify riots in India but to ask MIT better understand its finer nuances before passing judgement or comparing different societies.
Re: RELIGIOUS RIOTS DON'T OCCUR AMONG UNEQUAL COMMUNITIES
by njdesi on May 06, 2010 03:52 PM
Well Dear Friend MIT and Americans are very open minded ...
Re: Re: RELIGIOUS RIOTS DON'T OCCUR AMONG UNEQUAL COMMUNITIES
by ng on May 06, 2010 05:03 PM
India has had a lady PM, a sikh President, a Muslim President, a lady President.
Point me any country in the world that matches this level of diversity.
Re: Re: RELIGIOUS RIOTS DON'T OCCUR AMONG UNEQUAL COMMUNITIES
by Against Pseudos on May 07, 2010 09:08 AM
Nidesi:
;-)... What a statement.... YOU are a typical American.... nothing beyond self-chest-beating... :)
How many Muslim Presidents have YOU created Mr. American? How many Lady Presidents have YOU created Mr. American? How many Hindu Presidents have YOU created Mr. American?
Seems you are a very "closed minded" society after all.. :)
Re: Re: RELIGIOUS RIOTS DON'T OCCUR AMONG UNEQUAL COMMUNITIES
by Fluffy Kumar on May 06, 2010 04:34 PM
Muslim PM in India- Can happen; and WILL NEVER happen in USA- so who is open-minded?
Indian is ruled by Christians now- Can you imagine USA ruled by a Hindu? Don't go bonkers about how open-minded Americans are. I have lived long enough in USA to appreciate their 'openness'.
All sickular congis, their pet channels like NDTV and IBN daily barking that Muslims in India are in very poor condition... Why? Is Hindu society responsibe for that? ofcourse NOT. Are they not allowed in lakhs of scools in regional/national languages? Answer is Yes. Are they not allowed to appear for any apptitude tests?-- Answer is they are allowed. Are they not allowed for any other things that will help their society? - Answer is they are free more than other citizens.
The real reason behind their poor condition is- They produce more children even their econimic condition is poor. Their children don't go to school and collect garbage,trash. They send their children to Urdu schools where only religius training is given THey don't make their children of free minded and teach them to mixup with other cultures THey don't teach their children that India is their motherland and they should not look at other muslim countries and be loyal with them. They don't teach their children that INdian administration, police and govt are not their enemy. A muslim in Hindu area can feel freedom and affection received from hindus. But unfortunately a HIndu family always feel insecurity in muslim dominated areas.
Give a single example of social work being run by muslims in India which benefits all sections of society irrespective of cast and religion.... I can give list of more than 1 lakh(100000) of such projects being run by RSS and hindu org
