people who praise Indira Gandhi- She was the worst PM India ever had. She destroyed institutions, encouraged license raj, imposed emergency, nationalized banks (and destroyed work culture), increased corruption, created monster like Bhindrawale etc. P.S.- I am not anti-congress, I voted for them this time. Bit she was very bad for India.
Re: Re: Except for 1971 war
by Juhi on Jun 25, 2010 02:41 PM
what nonsense, she was the only woman who wore pants...we need someone like her now to teach this useless politicians some lesson!
Re: Re: Re: Except for 1971 war
by srinivasan mv on Jun 25, 2010 02:46 PM
Already our learned politicians are boot licking the foreign female and her son. As good as Emegency.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Except for 1971 war
by Kela Aadmi on Jun 25, 2010 02:48 PM
the way their corruption and fraud is getting exposed, they are planning an emergency exit from india altogether by having illegal dual citizenship!!!!
Those days I was dead against her and the Congress. But one must admit that she did some good. She saved Silent Valley. She was at least partly secular at heart - she didn't believe her Sikh guards would harm her.
Re: Indira Gandhi
by Dinesh Solanki on Jun 29, 2010 06:33 AM
When someone commits crime against constitution, it is unforgivable. she misused her powers and her ego and lust for power made sure that human rights of prominent citizens were trampled by this lady.It is like saying that someone who made profits for shareholders must be forgiven for the murder !She had no constitutionasl right to do what she did.She will remain a blot on Indian Democracy and of course Nehru family's reputation .
For the politician,for the press emergency was destructive experience but for the common there was practically no problems. Train run timely,office worked regularly.For the constitutional people it was black days to for abuse of power but so what to common men.For India like a country establishment of law must be there. V.Tripathy
Re: Emergency
by top Prakash on Jun 25, 2010 02:03 PM
You are a lost case. :) Go and get some material on atrocities on common man at that time, from family planning to naxal movement to turkman gate to censorship. yo ucan get a small snap in movie " Hajaaron Khwahishe aisi" which is in the emergency back drop.
indian democracy is basically a fraud; all the criminals and crooks get elected and pretend to look afte the country; the emergency was one of the most efficient periods since our independence; most of the crooks including the sycophant media persons were well behind bars; where they should be and an effective administration was functioning. I don't know why one is apologetic about the emergency - only the crooks and the now totally corrupt congress is labelling it to harness votes.
The author of this article has display his linguistic artistry with elan. Readers would have been grateful if the limited information sought to be narrated was done concisely and cogently.
Nonetheless, those who have been thru the emergency would have the following fair facts to narrate :
It is indisputable that the declaration of the emergency was a blot on the democratic fabric of this great republic. That the unseating of Mrs. Gandhi from her Rae Bareli seat in the 1971 election by the Justice Jagmohan Lal Sinha of the Allahabad High Court on grounds of having used the state machinery for her victory was not as serious a matter as Mrs. Gandhi perceived, to have declared the emergency. She could have appealed in the Supreme Court which could have stayed the HC judgement. Alternatively, a towering leader of her stature could have resigned and re-entered the Lok Sabha thru a bye-election, did not occur to Mrs. Gandhi.
But it must also be candidly mentioned here the period in the run up to the emergency was cacophonous and the opposition had virtually brought the country to a halt.
The excrutiatingly long railway strike called by George Fernandes, Jai Prakash Narayan's daily rallies and disturbances had brought the common people to the brink of their tether.
The final nail in the coffin was JP's call to the Army and Police to revolt against the govt. This is dangerous and would not be tolerated by any government.
Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by Roy on Jun 25, 2010 01:14 PM
She did appealed to the Supreme Court.But the vaccation Judge(In my best of knowledge) Mr.V.R.Krishna Iyer(also a fromer communist minister In Kerala) gave only conditional stay,when her counsel Mr.Nani Palkiwala asked for unconditional stay,Then she clamped Intrernal Emergency.
Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jun 25, 2010 01:19 PM
Yes, Justice Krishna Iyer, a known communist, could have given her a proper stay which could have saved the country of subsequent developments.
Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by Roy on Jun 25, 2010 01:26 PM
No.When she was a coward to face freah election,it will not made much difference.Even after loosing the election in 1977,she and Sanjay Gandhi dont want to step down from power.When Gen.Raina(Himslef a kashmiri,Naval and airforce heads,Mr.Kursetji and Mr.Mulganonkar told her that,then she may face unrest and Mutiny in forces,she stepped down from power.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by Roy on Jun 25, 2010 01:37 PM
After loosing the elction in 1977,Indira Gandhi and her son Sanjay Gandhi dont want step down from power.Sanjay Gandhi had a Trained goonda in very district.Kamalnath was one of them.
But the Army chief Mr.Raina,Naval chief Mr.Kursetji and Airforce Chief Mr.Mulgaonkar told her that there is every chance of unrest and Mutiny in forces,she stepped down from power.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by ARVINDBHAI on Jun 25, 2010 01:42 PM
As I exactly remember, when she perceived that she is going to lose the 1977 election, she immdtly called 3 chief of armies of all 3 wings for emergency meeting and persuaded them for support in her imposing the dictatorship thr' army and police rule throughout the country, very fortunately all of them refused to do so and then she had no way but to topple from power. This was the historical truth.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by ARVINDBHAI on Jun 25, 2010 02:15 PM
While her election campaign in Gujarat during public meeting in Valsad, she herself committed that a rupee alloted by her Govt for poor, hardly 10 paise reaches. Is this a plus point u consider of her reign when she herself admitted this publicly?
Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by guy giggling on Jun 25, 2010 01:25 PM
what people should understand is that the Khans, Peters and Davids go to any length to defend the atrocities committed by congress. Just because they get pampered by the party. For the last 10 years, almost all the border states were in turmoil. half of them advocating separation. The rulers have Kashmir have scant respect for the Indian constitution. There was a war in 1999. There was a war in 1999 compared to these situations, the conditions prevailing in those days do not justify declaration of emergency.
Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jun 25, 2010 01:33 PM
Resort to communal rhetoric is a figment of infertile minds.
Try reading all issues pertaining to her rule. She brought a super power to naught.
There are one 18-20 wars in the anals of world history which had a decisive winner. The 1971 war was one among them. Even the two world wars were indecisive.
You can criticise her for some actions, but be fair in criticising her. That will add to your own knowledge enrichment. But a board name "guy giggling" itself is an indicator of yourself.
Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by guy giggling on Jun 25, 2010 04:54 PM
What do we have to show in return to the so called decisive win. Except earn her a few brownie points and an appreciable increase in sycophancy.
There is another article in rediff to day here is an excerpt. This is answer to your quote she is a democrat at heart.
Q) What provoked Indira Gandhi to suddenly end the Emergency?
A) In the world she was being described as a dictator and she wanted to prove she wasn't. Her own department did a survey and told her if she held the election during the Emergency she would return to power.
But the people played their historic role and threw her government out even though the Emergency still existed. The Emergency was withdrawn immediately after her defeat in the Cabinet meeting she convened to submit her resignation.
She didn't want to be affected by the Emergency because had it continued then the Janata government could have put her behind bars under MISA (Maintenance of Internal Security Act) (laughs).
Re: Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jun 25, 2010 05:23 PM
Indira Gandhi is a personality who evokes either ecstatic support or diehard opposition. This was so during her lifetime and now 26 years after her death.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by guy giggling on Jun 25, 2010 07:44 PM
Sadly I was one of those who used like her next only to my mother. But that was when I was, well ... how should I put it ... mmm when my mind was still infertile, to use your own expression. Now that my mind is fertile, I know better. Her desire to keep everything under control led to the license raj, nationalization of banks and what not. It's not out of love of the country. Why, she couldn't even have a daughter-in-law who can stand against her. She threw Maneka Gandhi out. God knows how much she suffered because of Indira's errant and infamous son Sanjay Gandhi. In fact in the best tradition of Nehru clan Indira was paving way for Sanjay's dictotrship. Bit fate intervened in the name of Sonia gandhi. It's a different story what Sonia did. Nothing great to hear about
Re: Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jun 25, 2010 05:35 PM
The last para is not valid. The Shah Commission was appointed and based on its findings she was put behind bars.
She was voted out by the excesses of the emergency, but she was voted in by the excesses against her. If you are young, then ask your elders.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jun 25, 2010 11:08 PM
Roy : was she not arrested ? She may not have served a sentence, but she was arrested.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by Roy on Jun 25, 2010 06:22 PM
You are agaian wrong.She was not put behind the bar due to the findings of Shah Commission report. Go and read the history once again
Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by guy giggling on Jun 25, 2010 05:13 PM
As for the figment of infertile minds barb. Everyone knows that infertile minds cannot imagine hence what I said should be a fact. Besides, supporting someone as 'democrat at heart' who has imposed emergency (which was never invoked even during the three wars) is nothing but servitude and an act of a sycophant. May well try to become a kangi CM. May well succeed
Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jun 25, 2010 11:06 PM
guy giggling : you must read who the turkman gate bull dozing was against.
Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by Ramandeep Judge on Jun 25, 2010 05:23 PM
What has he written to call him that????? People who discriminate on religion are nothing short of taliban.
Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jun 25, 2010 05:40 PM
When there is paucity of knowledge the easiest accessible is hate. This fellow behera has not participated in the discussion, just a one liner. You can imagine the depth of his knowledge.
Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jun 25, 2010 05:38 PM
Communals like you should be drowned in the Bay of Bengal off the coast of your state.
Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by Ramandeep Judge on Jun 25, 2010 06:30 PM
Then fishes will start fighting on the basis of religion.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jun 25, 2010 11:05 PM
:-) yes he will communalise them also. Its a pitty how such ill educated and ill informed people have the proclivity to write.
Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jun 25, 2010 01:17 PM
Contd..
The people in general had welcomed the emergency. All trains ran on time, all bureaucrats were on their seat on time, no strikes, no dharnas and no nonsense.
It was a period of peace and tranquility.
Mrs. Gandhi was loved by the people before, during and after the emergency. The anger of the people was basically against the extra constitutional authority of Sanjay Gandhi and his cohorts. The excesses of the emergency under MISA and forcible sterilisation of young boys who had not even attained puberty was the cause of the anger.
To be fair to Mrs. Gandhi, she was a democrat at heart, much like her illustrous father. She felt a sense of uneasy, and her conscience compelled her to call the general election of 1977, dissolving the only Lok Sabha which had a life of 6 years.
She lost the election as also her seat to the maverick Raj Narain from Rae Bareli.
The Janata Party govt. came to power with the single point agenda of dishonouring Mrs. Gandhi. The Shah Commission was appointed and she was subsequently arrested. She won a bye-election to the Lok Sabha from Chikmagalur. This election was also rescinded by the Janata Govt. and her membership was cancelled.
The motley Janata Party experiment collapsed as soon as their agenda of punitive action against Mrs. Gandhi was over.
The Morarji Desai and Charan Singh governments fell in quick succession. The Lok Sabha was dissolved and the election saw Mrs. Gandhi return back to power.
Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by guy giggling on Jun 25, 2010 04:57 PM
It's joke to say that she is a democrat at heart. It was a routine practice during her tenure to dismiss democratically elected state governments. It was also her gift to the nation that none of the congress CMs were ever elected. They were all appointed by the high command. Is this what we call democracy?
Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jun 25, 2010 11:11 PM
Roy : Khushwant Singh was pro Mrs. Gandhi till he got Rajya Sabha seat, but turned against her once the seat was denied.
Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jun 25, 2010 01:29 PM
Roy : What you write is not incorrect. We will have to be fair in our analysis of history. If we are not fair, then we can never come to a fair inference. Mere rhetoric would not enrich our knowledge.
There is a history to what all happened. A towering leader cannot be dismissed with rhetoric and innuendos. We may or may not agree with a particular action, but one must analyse and come to a fair conclusion.
Who brought her to power, what they intended to do, why she did what she did and what happened later should be seriously discussed.
Freedom is a treasure, we must know the pitfalls it faces and why/how we must ensure its continuance.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by Roy on Jun 25, 2010 01:33 PM
She Justfied corruption,In her period corrupt leaders like Devaraj urs and Vasant dada Patil,Nandini Satpati had great time.She destroyed every instititutios of democracy one by one.
Kindly read Kushwant sing's Article on Indira Gandhi in Rediff's Archives
Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by ARVINDBHAI on Jun 25, 2010 01:59 PM
Yes, while she felt that she was losing power and opposition was coming up strongly, as a last resort, she imposed emergency over the country and put all opposition leaders into the jail including Jay Prakash Narayan. This was very erred action by her making the whole wind against her all over India and gave a chance to opposition of coming into power. Was that action in appropriation of democracy? Does every one know as to how Jay Prakash as National Hero died in the jail then? He was given a poision in his food i.e. mercury, when in jail, due to which his kidney failed. This cause by Indira regime came in open light to all over the country.
Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by ARVINDBHAI on Jun 25, 2010 02:25 PM
My dear, no doubt all disciplines enforced due to emergency were welcome and public was glad, I disagree that it imposed an environment of peace and tranquility, but full of fear because all clearly apprehended that it was a clear sign of her becoming the dictator any time and that only became the cause of her falling from power.
Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by ARVINDBHAI on Jun 25, 2010 02:37 PM
No, u r absolutely wrong. Since majority still remembers him, Sanjay could hv been the best administrator among Nehru family for India. It was a very big mistake that he was killed in plane crash how and why everyone knows well.
Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by Jerry Kurian on Jun 25, 2010 02:39 PM
Your anaalysis is excellent. Were you around at that time?, i hope you ar talking from your own experience. I did not experience emergency and would never wish to experience it in our great country. Whatever be the reason, democracy has to be sustained. Dictatorship will bring doom always.
Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jun 25, 2010 05:33 PM
Jerry Kurian : Do you see the harsh reactions above. This is what that lady personified, during her lifetime and now in death.
Jerry, with all this opposition, if nature had a way of ever bringing her back, she will again sweep the elections - and those born after her death would also vote for her lock stock and barrel.
There is no doubt, as I have written in my initial post, the emergency was a huge blot on the country and on Prime Minister Indira Gandhi. It has no justification whatsoever. These are lessons learnt by a nation in the process of its evolution.
There is no great personality of history without blemish. We cannot hold only the negatives, we have to grasp their positives also.
Abraham Lincoln is considered one of the greatest President of the United States who abolished slavery. But if one reads about him, it would occur that he had actually considered deporting all the blacks from the US.
We have to arrive as a fair assessment of history.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by Rakhee J on Jun 25, 2010 08:30 PM
When nothing works, dig somebodys personal life isnt it?! what an appropriate strategy when someone else is trying for a fair appraisal of history and a leader.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by Ramandeep Judge on Jun 25, 2010 06:24 PM
Yeah, I know what u r coming to. I have met him and the picture which came out was totally different. That Dhirender Bramachari thing and other things were not figment of imagination. But. as Clinton has proved, personal conduct is sometimes overvalued.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jun 25, 2010 11:27 PM
Ramandeep Judge : Dhirendra Brahmachari, O.P.Mathai are all well known. Tell me, who is without a blemish. Our leaders are also human.
President Sarvapalli Radhakrishnan was an eminent educationist. His own son has written his biography in which he says he was appalled by the voracious appetite that his eminent father had for sex.
Some time back it was reported that Fidel Castro has bedded 45000 women during his presidency.
John F. Kennedy was a voracious womaniser, but that does not stand in his charm as a great president.
Atal Bihari Vajpayee once said he was a bachelor but not a virgin. His own escapades during his younger times have been reported in the press of and on.
We need not delve deeper in the personal lives of leaders in so far as it does not impinge on their ability to administer the nation for its greater good.
Whatever be said about Panditji or Indiraji, they mesmerised and loved the people; the people in turn bestowed their faith in them. Both of them ruled with a two thirds majority each time except 1967. They were no despots, they drew their strength from the people. Politicians who crawled before them did so because of their hold on the people.
The same secretive and disciplined Congress party was all daggers drawn against Sitaram Kesri when he was not able to win elections for the party.
Let us see things in perspective. We must criticise them for the wrongs and credit them with the good they did.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Some fair facts regarding the emergency
by IMTIAZ KHAN on Jun 25, 2010 11:14 PM
Roy : you are going below the belt. We have nothing to do with all that you intend to say.
