Re: should
by neeraj Waghmare on Nov 16, 2009 01:59 PM
the constitution has not given any right to the defence chiefs to go to war without permission of the parliament. It is true that they should keep a low profile as far as going to fashionprogrammes,movies,parties etc, but remember if they didnt do their jobs we would be flying the pakistan flag instead of the indian tricolour.
The best thing we have learnt from Britishers is their "Divide & Rule" policy besides the English language. Our politicians (present day rulers) are using this policy to the hilt and dividing the country and society on various grounds - language, region and religion. We, the people are falling prey to these games and helping these politicians in surviving and filling up their pockets. Today we feel ashamed and have a guilt in calling ourselves UNITED - beacuse we are not. First we are Hindus, Muslims, Christians and Sikhs OR Marathis, Tamilian, Keralites, Biharis first buy never INDIANS.
You cant talk about a war with a nuclear power, particularly when you dont have a nuclear defence shield.
In a conventional war Pak loses, and that is why they may escalate it to the nuclear level. Moreoever, the Pakistans sidelined Army will take this as a golden opportunity to reassert itself in Paks domestic politics.
It is like a David vs Goliath war. Goliath was so big in size that David need not aim precisely, you throw whatever you have and it will hit Goliath somewhere and hurts. Whereas Goliath has to be precise to hit David.
This is the Indian dilemma and a real problem. If you hit Pak with nukes where will you hit; you cant hit Lahore or Islamabad as they are just 60 Kms away from Indian borders. No sooner you drop a nuke on Lahore, your Sardars in Amritsar will drop like nine pins in half an hour from the explosion due to radiation reaching Amritsar. Ditto with Islamabad. That leaves only with Karachi.
Compare this with Pak? They can hit you at Chennai, Kolkata, Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore, Hyderabad and still not get affected.
Indian Govts decision is correct in not going for war. You can bleed Pak with economic sanctions and by hitting from Afghanistan which the Indian agencies are doing effectively now. Tit for tat which is working fine.
Regarding the comment that China has only quantity but not quality, I must say either the former Indian Air Chief has gone senile or turned a braggart!
Re: WHAT A BRAGGART!
by GODAVARTI RAmesh on Nov 16, 2009 05:45 PM
Mr Kabeer
In the event of a Nuclear war, don't you think all factors will be considered. Will India drop a bomb on Lahore with Amritsar close by? Amritsar may be evacuated to bomb shelters and a 40 kT bomb dropped on Multan to cover both Lahore and Rawalpindi/Islamabad. Come on man ,have some consideratoin for Indians Intelligence. They may not be as smart as you guys in Pak but they are not fools yaar. And there is no nuclear shield as such any where. No winners in Nuclear war , it is mutally assured destruction. So pak will not survive either.
Re: WHAT A BRAGGART!
by dhinchak on Nov 16, 2009 01:12 PM
US treats china because of teh same reason which you mentioned. david vs goliath. america has much to loose in case of war with china.
Re: WHAT A BRAGGART!
by Umesh Sharma on Nov 16, 2009 01:18 PM
kabeer, this is paki line of reasoning, u must understand the element of surprise is the key, if on 27th india wud hv taken the charge, as u said 60kms today is nothing, but, sadly even if india wud hv attacked and won the surprise, our politicaians in power wud hv invoked the gandhi principal and returned the territory,a blunder we did in 1971. as far as ur comment of blabbering u hv said shows that u donot understand the service code, now that he has retired he has all the right to inform, for yr info, he has a better knowledge abt chinese capability than u n me, so dont talk crap
It might be fashionable and jingoistic to demand war, but trust me once it is upon us, you will rue the day you wished for it.
Think of this: 1. Pakistan can NEVER hope to match us in conventional weaponry, They WILL use nuclear weapons, nuclear weapons which are a 100 times more potent than the one in hiroshima and nagasaki. So it you will be faced with generations of mutated children, lungs growing outside the bodies etc.
2. Most of our agricultural land will be laid to waste, no food from 30-40% of our farmlands for the next 50-100 years (depending on the level of radiation)
4. Pakistan will be destroyed, but not all its people, millions will turn jehadis,and we will have a mumbai attack every day, and short of bombing ourselves into oblivion we willl not be able to control it. 5. It will set back our economy by 40 years, so forget mobiles, you will be lucky if a phone works.
So all proponents of war, be careful what you wish for - YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY GET IT!!!
Re: You want war... think abt this
by hakim khan on Nov 16, 2009 01:34 PM
mr sengupta your observation is sane and shows the pros and cons of going to war with Pak.But you did not gave any solution how to tame pakistan and its bully terror groups.If a just defense could trigger nuke weapon use from pak then we just remain silent and pray that those idiot jihadis spare us from their assault.If nuke war is so devastating for our country,then ofcourse they are aware of its results who commit `first use` of this.
Re: Re: You want war... think abt this
by Saikat Sengupta on Nov 16, 2009 02:01 PM
the solution is adopt the same strategy pakistan tried on us, a theory of "a thousand cuts"
and I am sure we are doing the same, only we cant go public abt it, the world acknowledges India's strongest defense is its obsessive security,in defense matters. And you just think it is a coincidence that bombs started going off all over Pakistan after 26/11
Re: You want war... think abt this
by Ravi Kant on Nov 16, 2009 01:36 PM
Sengupta, you talk nonsense. We cannot let the country bleed & continue to suffer. 26/11 is now history & let us forget whether UPA Govt. made a mistake of not directing armed forces to attack Pakistan when IAF was ready to do so. Thanks to pressure from around the world, Pakistan is now fighting a gorrilla war against Taliban / Al Quaida and muslims are killing muslims. BUT, now on based on our intelligence should Pakistan (Haidely etc.)think or try to attack us any where our forces must act before they act no matter how many of us get killed. Aar Paar ki ladai honi chahiye so that once for all problems from across our borders are solved & our future generations live in peace. Let the nuclear arsenals not be just kept as deterrent but be used earlier to destroy their stockpiles before Pak could even throw any missile on India. I know our armed forces are capable of doing so. Donot under estimate their strength. The whole Nation will become one to defeat the enemy when such an action takes place.
Re: Re: You want war... think abt this
by Saikat Sengupta on Nov 16, 2009 01:58 PM
I face your kind every day, their is a difference between your "wanting" something and actually happening.
You have got a brain use it for a change, you imagine the chances of you getting affected by war is minimal, but the day you have a leg blown off, you will start cribbing abt the govts stupidity in going to war. Try imagining the entire state of punjab haryana, wiped of the face of India. Stop arguing for the sake of arguing like our politicians.
No wonder, our politicians are like they are , after all they come from among people like you.
Re: You want war... think abt this
by Paramesh Paramesh on Nov 16, 2009 01:14 PM
Oh..How about asking ISRO to send all Indians (minus politicians and this major) to the moon and then we go to war with pak and china?? BTW, there is water on the moon according to NASA !!
the chinese fear phobia is a creation of the media and a clever propaganda by the chinks of their agressive tendencies when they know they only hold clunkers of the 70s.to modernise their forces of four million personnel will take trillions of dollars which they cannot afford to do now.it is the tolerant attitude of indians and the spineless character of the congis which keeps india on its backfoot even against countries like sri lanka and bangladesh.
Re: why
by Umesh Sharma on Nov 16, 2009 01:09 PM
sonia soldier, u are off yr rocker, u know he cannot speak when he is in service, but, now he cannot keep quiet, and he has rightly said that upa govt. doesnot hv the balls to be tough, they can only whine and gv oral warnings to pak that we will take action, what action they hv taken is for all to see, at the summit in egypt, the govt conceded they were interfering in balouch, such inept handling of foreign affairs, secondly the will to take action is just not here, they are weak, for them life of soldiers is not imp at all, a very sad state of affairs, this will continue if upa stays in power under the disable leadership of sonia and mohana. they will do what uncle sam says n who is a great ally of pak. mera bharat kahan
Re: Re: why
by Saikat Sengupta on Nov 16, 2009 01:10 PM
It might be fashionable and jingoistic to demand war, but trust me once it is upon us, you will rue the day you wished for it.
Think of this: 1. Pakistan can NEVER hope to match us in conventional weaponry, They WILL use nuclear weapons, nuclear weapons which are a 100 times more potent than the one in hiroshima and nagasaki. So it you will be faced with generations of mutated children, lungs growing outside the bodies etc.
2. Most of our agricultural land will be laid to waste, no food from 30-40% of our farmlands for the next 50-100 years (depending on the level of radiation)
4. Pakistan will be destroyed, but not all its people, millions will turn jehadis,and we will have a mumbai attack every day, and short of bombing ourselves into oblivion we willl not be able to control it. 5. It will set back our economy by 40 years, so forget mobiles, you will be lucky if a phone works.
So all proponents of war, be careful what you wish for - YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY GET IT!!!
