I do not think that the article is 'In defence of the Armed Forces'.It is against the Defence Forces. The General has written that the Armed Forces deliver fully during the War.How about the tasks when the defance forcs are called upon to help Civil Administration during natural calamities roits,Maintenence of Essential Services.And Civil Administration on the drop of the Hat put up requisition for Forces help. You can not evaluate the lives saved in terms of Money. During maintenence of essential services the has the General visualised that the Armed forces have acted as catalytic agent for the Growth of the Country which the politicians tried stop for their own benifits.Then How can he judge that the the Armed Forces are Non-Productive. In that case I suggest tha theArmed Forces should be disbanded & in place SUPARI be given to DONS when ever there is a threat on the Sovernigty of the Country. The media of late have been after the TRP/to increase the sale of their Paper have played in the hands of Politician & babus who intentionally leak out the selected info. For Babus one can say 'ANDHA BATEN REWERY,PHIR PHIR APPON DE'. The General has touched upon the Defiance.It this Quality that motivates the soldier to go in the Mouth of Death. It is unbeleivabe that the General having gone through the service has not realised that under what conditios the Spouses and the children live in vis a vis those iof babus &Politicians. Please Pay Proper Respect to Forces Personnel
A schoolkid joins the army training academy, undergoes 4 years of punishing rigour without any pay, comes out of the academy as an officer where the government places him at a certain status which is higher as compared with the other government services.
The year is 1988. The country is in turmoil with militancy in Punjab at its zenith, Kashmir problem is rearing its head. The North-East is burning and we have an issue in Sri Lanka.
The officer is proud and thankful and gives his next 20 years to the nation, 10 of these away from his loved ones. He puts his self in the line of fire, time and again.
He gets his pleasure, reading the 2 days old newspaper which he gets at his post and notes that the nation is feeling more secure which is reflected in the sensex which is rising by bounds. He is happy for other Indians who have the time and facilities to invest and are now progressing economically.
He, however, fails to realise that the nation has moved on and his service now do not matter as before. He is given a choice- your service shall be equated to those who joined the government service almost 10 years after you. Take it or lump it.
I'm sure that he has a right to feel disappointed. Even more, his wife and children have a right to feel disgusted.
Re: Army- In defence of:
by balaji sampath on Sep 11, 2008 04:18 PM
Dear Rk, The pain and anguish that is reflected in each and every word that you have penned down reflects feelings of many officers serving in the defence forces today. The year was the same 1988 when another young man got commisioned, full of pride of joining the best profession in this country and to realise 20 years later that paramilitary and civilian counterparts have gone way ahead,leaving behind a sense of disbelief and helplessness.
The essence of the discussion is the interse parity between the armed forces and other services viz IAS, IPS and the para-military. What is in question is whether a pay commission unrepresented by people whose interests are at stake decide on interse parity of those groups whose pay they are to revise. Can a pay commission revise or change the order of precedence already laid down or are their confabulations bound by the precedence already set.
When I joined the Army, a District Collector was equated to a Major. It seems that some state govts have now equated them to a Brigadier. A DIG in the police was somewhere between a Lt Col and Col. Now I am told that he is also being equated to a Brigadier. There was also a proposal to make IAS officers Joint Secretaries at 14 years. In the Armed forces you reach the equivalent rank of major general at 32 years and more.
Can any government or commission change these things at will? I dont think so!
The current issue is purely about interse parity. As the general has brought out so eloquently, the services live on Honour and Glory.
Pay on the other hand is a function of the job you are performing and will come automatically.
The Services must insist on parity between all goverment services in an order of precedence based on LENGTH OF SERVICE AND RANK and rstored to 15 Aug 1947 levels - nothing less.
Are we the Armed Forces of the Republic of India or the Republic of the Indian Administrative Service?
The General has said in very nice and simplest words the fallicity which surrounds the Indian Psyche regarding Armed forces. Look deep into military history we do not have anything strategic to be proud of actually. We have a habit of waking up to realities like we did in 62 and post kargil.
I am a proud soldier , an officer and a gentleman. I have had the opportunity to stand and be counted with the finest men of my country. My coursemates have been the most exemplary gentleman i have had the opportunity to serve with. I can say with conviction that we cannot and should not compare ourselves with IAS...we are far better than them on the scales meant for us. I have found the best men here ..i dont find more such joining..i wont advise anyone to join..
Re: The melody from the lute is gone
by Krishnan Hariharan on Sep 09, 2008 10:25 PM
Sir, it is sad you feel this way... but the pity is because the Nation is being divided on the basis of religion and language. It is said that two people get liberation... the warrior (for the cause of Dharma or Truth) and the Yogi! Please don't become despondent. Don't forget the blessings of the Lord Krishna are always with the great warriors. Only problem is the government and large sections of the people are divisive... they are digging their own grave and courting ignominy... falsity never triumphed!
Lt Gen Joshi has raised a very cogent argument for treating the armed forces better.Its time for a separate pay comission for the armed forces & also for a separate independent body to govern them given the quality of our politicians and bureaucrats . It makes less sense for politicians and 'file pushing' bureaucrats to sit in jusdgement on the armed forces especially when they have so litle understanding of the rigors and pressures of working in defence.Politicians are the least reliable when it comes to thinking of long term good.As for bureaucrats, someone once said 'India doesn't need as much economic reform as bureaucratic reforms' and it holds true very much so today.All of the P.M's talk of reform in this space has remained just that -talk . The bureaucrats manage to hold off any reform of their own domain while granting themselves pay hikes periodically ,seek extensions, and get prime postings long after they are past retirement age and when their best is behind them . For this class to sit in judgement on defence matters is not a very haelthy sign. The armed forces and to a certain extent, the judiciary are amongst the very few institutions in India still carrying respect and goodwill among the public and they should not be allowed to deacy and be demoralised by politicians and bureaucrats.
Gen.Joshi Tell the boys of all the 3wings to raise against the Govt as Told by late Gen.Baghat to late Mrs Indira Gandhi on salaries on 4th pay commission.Gen.Baghat told Mrs Gandhi Northern Command will revolt .Pay of army was made on par with civis and Bhaghat was sent to Damodarvalley as CMD as punishment It is different story Gen.Bhaghat made damodar valley the best profit making PSU of his time! No hard working brilliant man can be put down especially if he stands for his boys-applicable to all sectors.Tell your God Damned CINCs of all 3wings to raise revolt -Let India have it's second war of indepndance and we get rid of politicos and Babus--Gen will your present chaps holding Gaddis will speak the line of Gen Bhaghat?? Never because all senior defenese officers also want to stick to their Gaddis!! Rascals they make young officers loose their life and enjoy their chota Pegs in clubs--That's why no youngman wants to join.The defense heirarchy MUST also be changed-whether you like it or not Indian defense forces based on British model out beat even the present British systems in un wanted system will any army ex Gen stand up and speak on above lines--Because of such senior offis Civis are taking over the control of defense forces--Could this happen to ex Defense chifs!! in 1950s Never-Think it over
Gen joshi has in very simple terms and example braught out the falacy that Defence pers cannot be kept insame level of IAS & IPS as felt by govt.Due to this the defence pers specially offrs have suffered in ^Pay commission. As very suggested the pay commission shoul have included some battle scared persos as members. i appreciate that the Three chiefs have shown courage to tell govt to hold the 6^pay commission application till the parity between defence IAS &IPS is sorted out.
An eye opening article by a soldier but alas our ruling maai baaps (thick skinned politicians and beurocrate puppies) are busy selling their motherland to remain in power for generations. These people are lingering on key issues like Kashmir, North East, Reservation policies, Raj Thakrey, Naxlites,and the list is endless. They are nourishing all these problem untill they are out of control and finally THEY WILL CALL ARMY to rescue. In fact such type of creatures are not fit to rule this great country but our masses are poorly educated or not educated at all to understand their ugly plots.
Re: all time low politics
by SS on Sep 09, 2008 12:47 PM
Leave Alone The Army, Even God also cannot Save Us from these Dirty Worms of the Society - Politicians.
Re: Army the fools paradise.
by rakesh mehra on Sep 09, 2008 12:58 PM
you do not even know what you are barking about do you?armed forces are not any other profession you dumbwit!!!!!!11
