I think we are missing out a point here... What govt is saying is becuase there is social unequality in society so they are giving reservation not becuase of poor.
Now i would like to ask simple question to Arjun singh and his cronies is the situation today in the country is same as of 1931???
Today if you see,most of our politicians, buracrats and rich belongs to OBC's identified in 1931 census..!!
Now is it right decide reservation on this criteria???
Since OBCs are bending over to declare themselves backwards (meaning, not really up to the mark in the upree mohalla), why do we still have to entertain their requests and argue with them? They do not believe in merit, so what is the merit in arguing with them?
A very nice article. Yet again, it has exposed the special custom-made brand of "Communism" that India has to put up with - just like North Korea does today and East Germany once did!
RE:country of bafoons
by laughingbuddha on Apr 24, 2007 05:42 AM
this must be act of some upper caste fellows they are forcing these tribal people for these erotic dance and getting pleasure out of this stop OBC SC ST exploitaion divide the nation into upper caste and lower caste so that upper caste can enjoy bharatnatyam and lower caste can enjoy nude tribal dance
RE:RE:country of bafoons
by Faltoo Comments on Apr 24, 2007 11:07 AM
You idiot, does not anything else but caste and reservation come across your mind. You idiot bigot
Its easy to say that OBC students should come with their own merits and compete with general category. But OBC students are in much terrible state then any general caegory students. They dont have exposure or proper guidance to move forward. Some dont even know what IIM and IIT's are and what their benefits are. Where as general students go through rigreous IIT, IIM preparation courses before they appear for the exams. Even if OBC's have knowledge and exposure they dont have the money to spend on these institutions and they are under tremendious pressure from their family to earn money. Many OBC students are not even able to complete IIM or IIT after they get selected and have to quit in the middle because they cant affort them. Not only there should be quota, but government should also help them financially throught the course.
We should remember that we are the one responsible for all the backward class and we have to work together to bring them to our level now. Reservation is the only way to help uplift the backward classes and government should make sure that it should be used by people who deserve it. Family earning less than 1 lakh anually should come under the criteria and be able to use the quota system.
RE:Easy said then done
by Senthil Gounder on Apr 24, 2007 09:50 AM
Mr. Sunil, If exposure is the problem, then government should provide the rural people the real exposure and not reservation. If the OBC's doesnt have money, then government can provide aid to them to improve themselves.
But what the present government is doing is to make the OBC remain under developed and in turn place them in higher educational institutions where they could not compete with other people who have developed their knowledge very well.
RE:Easy said then done
by bharani kacham on Apr 24, 2007 08:36 AM
My good friend, did you even stop to think before making sweeping generalizations about the state OBCs are in? I totally see where Ramesh P is coming from but fail to see where you are coming from when I read your point of view. Not all OBCs or to that matter SC/STs are backward. I support reservations but only for the real backward people (caste shouldnt matter). And, pray tell me why should a person be entitled to reservations when his/her father has made good use of them?
RE:Easy said then done
by Ramesh P on Apr 24, 2007 05:02 AM
Sunil Bhai, I was born and brought up in remote parts of AP and never new that these institutes existed and why they are considered so great till my 12th std. I never knew that there was something like JEE till I finished 12th and all I knew was abt state engg entrance. I got into a govt college in engg, without any coaching exposure and there I came to know of IITs, did my masters there. I have to tell you that I belong to a fwd caste and there is no one much educated in my family - I came from a very poor family as well. So all the above said, I don't see how I am different from the OBC students you mentioned. Awareness has nothing to do with caste, its just an urban-rural divide.
Also you want govt to help them financially. I wonder why they should do it. In the end, an individual earns for his family after his studies, and makes his own living and many don't even contribute to the society. Instead govt should make student loans available for higher educations and make ppl pay for thier higher education and keep the primary education free of cost (or even till 12th). Many OBCs in AP are far more powerful and richer than a Brahmin and I don't see why they should be pampered. I have had Hyd convent educated, JEE coached friends coming and joining my class in engg in BC reservation, having far more exposure than me and financially they were really well off, maintaining a bike etcc in college, where as I couldn't afford a bicycle and had to borrow my uncle's bicycle.
Now when I donate money, I donate it only to NGOs which run schools in remote areas and I don't ask them which castes the kids belong to. Because I truly believe that education changes a man's life forever and everyone has the right to get it by working hard and not through reservations.
RE:Easy said then done
by shobha gopal on Apr 24, 2007 10:39 AM
Hi Sunil, I completly agree with you. Even i'm from a family as yours. I neither had financial support nor the guidance for my education nor i'm from any backward class and i'm happy it was based on merit. I have seen people who are from backward classes but very well off , but still claim the reservations that government provides. As educated one should understand the necessity for the establishment of such reservations.If the individuals are well off and can afford they should themselves set back from opting such reservations and allow people who are really in need of that to make use of the reservations.
I guess therby certain amount of biasing will reduce.
RE:Easy said then done
by facelessindian on Apr 24, 2007 05:38 AM
kudo ramesh your storu tells that you want to remove the problem. but who will vote for you. sir when we talk about OBC, no one say who are these OBC - owners of 100 acres of land. owners of small scale industries owners of political parties
or what is the face of OBC.
i appreciate your effort and i wish you lots of luck and good health for your kind support.
RE:Easy said then done
by rajsundar elangovan on Apr 24, 2007 04:51 AM
No one is opposing reservation to backward class. That can be done effectively only on a economic basis. Otherwise we are just dividing the people by caste. I personally know so many people who changed their caste names to become backward and hence gain advantage. Does this help people who are deperate need of it ? Never
RE:Easy said then done
by Mahesh Jagga on Apr 24, 2007 10:56 AM
Sunil, if awareness and money are the issues, let the government use the resources to provide awareness from high school onwards and provide the money for preparation courses. No one has issues on that.
Compare it with say athletics. Knowing one person is not even running but limping. what would you do? Spend money on his diet and training or put him straight on a marathon race in the name of equal opportunity?
Do you also believe that after reserved category students pass out from IIT / IIM, the recruiters will not ask for the mode of admission thus defeating the whole exercise but also lowering the esteem of these institutions.
Have you ever seen Arjun Singh talking about the pathetic state of primary and secondery education in the country. He does not shed one tear for that. Why? Because it will not get him votes. It requires hard work and results will be visible in longer term which is not available to him.
RE:Easy said then done
by Lal Badshah on Apr 24, 2007 12:01 PM
Infact I would say SC rightly asked government to exclude the creamy layer so that economically backward citizens like you can take advantage of the reservation.
BTW even if reservation is given in IITs and IIMs, one has to work hard to pass the exams. Reservation in these institutes MUST also have some minimum qualification criteria. A guy just passing 12th with 40% most probably won't be able to go though the rigours of IITs and IIMs. And how will you have good marks and aptitude ? Only through good schooling. Once you excel in good school, you may not need reservation in IITs. You can compete with others with your merit/talent to get into IITs and be proud of your achievements.
SO the real focus should be good schools and not bulk reservations in IITs/IIMs. I agree that abt 5% reservation may be needed for first 2-3 generations to join the mainstream.
RE:Easy said then done
by riyfkm on Apr 24, 2007 06:24 PM
When I studies in College, I could see our MLA kids filling EBC (Economically Backward Class) forms to avoid paying fees. They used to pay only 150 Rs as fees per annum where as my bro and sis used to pay 2k ..... The only solution here is no reservation... and complete access to education... i.e. Increase the number of institutes & improve the quality of education.... But these politicians don't want that... if everyone gets educated... then who'll create roits during election and who'll do booth capture and who'll vote???
Ideally merit should be the only criterion. However in India such an ideal situation is not possible. If there have to be quotas there should not be more than 25% reservation in higher education and no more than 10% in government jobs in the junior position. This will ensure that the basic pillar is that of merit with a degree of affirmative action.
Personally think its merit that counts nothing else. Financial aid and aybesome support to economically backward people is ok, but castes have died decades ago.... After all aren't we supposed to be all EQUAL Indian brothers and sisters?
As an Indian who has lived in India for 30 long years from i have seen systemic discrimination against both Muslims and dalits. Can one be able to buy argument that there is no discrimination. Statics proves it and numbers never lie. Argument against reservation in favor meritocracy is genuine. I belive opportunities should be strictly based on merit, But what solutions do you suggests for the problems?
RE:I request the authors respone weather muslims are discriminate
by munish sharma on Apr 24, 2007 02:58 AM
In the absence of right solution if we end up choosing a flawed solution like reservations based on castes etc. it will just increse the discrimination not decrease it. Finding the right solution should be the focus and not the implementation of a flawed one just because we are not capable of finding the right one.
RE:I request the authors respone weather muslims are discriminate
by Kaushik Das on Apr 24, 2007 10:57 AM
In this, we have forgotten that in cities, nobody knows the caste of his fellows. How has this great thing been possible?
RE:I request the authors respone weather muslims are discriminate
by VIJAYA BUDDHIRAJU on Apr 26, 2007 01:01 AM
Dalits have reservations. Muslims have clout. the only ones who are discriminated are forward castes, Bhramins in particular for the past 60 years. Where are you living?
RE:I request the authors respone weather muslims are discriminate
by Ramesh P on Apr 24, 2007 05:13 AM
affirmative action, like what they have for african americans in US. They don't have reservations for them here.
As the author rightly points out, we need to exclude creamy layer and have affirmative action on economic basis. Otherwise we will be reversing the effects of empowerment.
The discrimation of forward caste will continue for ever and in another 100 years there will be reservation for forward castes as well. The story will never end unless the politications decide to stop gaining political milage out of this issue.
RE:Rightly said !!
by munish sharma on Apr 24, 2007 12:07 AM
correct and also the affirmative action should be allowed to be used only once in a life time. Not that people use it to get into undergrad schools first and then use the same action to get into grad schools and on top of that get promoted through out their life as per this affirmative action. That just defies any logic.
RE:Rightly said !!
by Prem Viswanathan on Apr 24, 2007 10:52 AM
I dont think you are correct. Discrimination will continue forever. At no point of time, today's forward castes would come under the ambit of backward classes simply because we are a part of democracy. Politicians will only favor to "make" those communities backward which are a sizeable votebank. For this reason, you see yadavs, jats, kapus, vanniars, banias are backward, even though they are economically and socially better off than their so called forward caste counterparts.
For this reason, politicians are also clamouring to include muslims in this list.
