BTW the Pope is known as Pope John Paul 2 and not Pope John Pius. That sort of sets the tone for the poorly researched article.
For starters, the Pope is the head of the Catholic Church. Baptists etc are not part of the same Church. They do not even recognise the Pope. So dont mix up your "evidence" and create an accusation based on your own ignorance.
The Pope called for people to "proclaim the gospel", he didnt say tie everyone and convert forcibly, there is a difference. And for your information, the Catholic Church believes in conversion only if it is out of a genuine change of heart, as can be verified with the documents of the 2nd Vatican Council, but of course how would you know since you dont believe in research.
Allegations of Church sponsored racial discrimination have been raised, although this was not within the Catholic Church, so then why drag the Pope into it?
Isnt reservation a form of Discrimination? Why do you say that the alarm shown by the media at the Staines killing was unfair? How do you know that the Staines murderer Dara Singh was not a part of Bajrang Dal?
If I was teaching you I would give you an "F" and say redo after research.
I feel, cutting across religion, caste and creed, all Indians should vehementally protest against the Pope, as he has no business to tell what our Government should do or not to do.
On conversion of religion, it appears to me only a person with a dubvious character can convert himself. To me, religion and language (mother tongue) are the most two sensitive issues and are close to my heart. As much as I love my moher, I love my mother tongue and religion. I would never convert to another religion, whatever may be offered to me.
One reader has quoted Sri Narayana Guru, a social reformer of Kerala. Despite the fact that the lower caste Hindus were ill-treated, Narayana Guru did not desert Hinduism, he fought against the evils of Hindusim by staying within its fold. That is the character of that great man.
There could be many drawbacks in Hinduism, especially the treatment of upper caste Hindus to the lower caste brothern. This has to stopped forthwith so that others will not have a chance to fish in the troubled waters.
RE:Pope's comment
by Anand on Jun 12, 2003 11:41 PM
It can never happen. We would rather die at our enemy's hand rather than convert back.
Starting from the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross to the sacrifice of Graham Stains in India, Christianity is filled with martyrs. 2000 years ago St. Thomas from Isreal sacrificed his life for me in India. This will continue no matter what legislation or weapon is used against us. We will sacrifice our life for spreading the Good News. Yes we are "Parayans" (meaning "One who proclaims").
Christianity is built on the Sacrificial blood of Jesus Christ. Blood is mightier than bricks and Cement. -- Anand
The best way to find out the intent of the article and the sentiment expressed in the article is to look under the shirts of the author and those who applaud him for their brahmin thread. I am a proud beef eating tribal from Tamilnadu, and the so called Hinduism pedalled by the Sangh Bros mean nothing to me other than a 3000 year old conspiracy to keep me and the likes oppressed. Religion is a matter of my choice and not to be decided by the black abhoring 'white godesses' who is supported by the oppressive brahmin fat. Of course Rediff has a mission, to aid the brahmin missionaries who are trying to demolish the cultures of the Dalit and tribal 'minorities' (minority does not mean muslims of christians alone) who are actually the majority of this country. Even the frenzy over nationalism that the Sangh sing is only a way to cover up the real pain of the real people who are bull dozed rapidly with improved brahmin machines. The Sangh and the brahmin allies demolished the Babri Masjid to correct history. Think, what would happen if we dalits and tribals correct history?
RE:When Non-Residential Americans Speak
by tirutinan on Jun 13, 2003 01:59 PM
Dear Ammu,
I think none among those supporters of Lavakare will reply to your message. They dont have a convincing point against this argument. They can't reply to this unless they go back by 5000 years. So they will neglect it. Hard facts are difficult to assimilate.
The author's understanding of racism and religious fanatism is appreciable. What is missing is his understanding of the so called Nationalism with capital 'N'wound in a sacred thread. He need to look into what is carried out by the brahmin missionaries who have appropriated the title 'Hindu' itself. One need to look into books like 'Why I Am Not a Hindu' as well as the numerous silent or the silenced dalit voices, who are ill-treated day in and day out in the name of Hinduism. What the Sangh does (so does the author of the article) today is to appropriate the sub-continetal cultures into the hegemony of the Brahmin thread. The latest in this move is the brahmin dietary prescription in the form of banning cow slaughter, as well as the anti-conversion bill. These bills by targeted at the weaker sections, in fact openly proclaim the brahminising mission; no dalit shall decide for himself and brahmins shall do the thinking for them. In fact the biggest threat that the Sangh and the notorious brahminic brotherhood face today is a dalit backlash, which might demolish the atrocious privileges enjoyed by them for centuries.
"after the Western world needlessly raged over the killing of missionary Graham Staines and his two sons..." here i take objection to the word needlessly. Do you mean to say tht the angst expressed by the world over the killing of innocent people, irrespective of whether they were missionaries or not is NEEDLESS? now now mr.arvind pls draw a line between being a critic and a bigot! as for the conversions, cry as much as you will, they wouldn't happen if there wasn't even a drop of conviction in people's mind about the religion they were going into. Might i point out to you that there are many christians who do convert into hinduism or the islam because they feel those religions have more to offer. As for airing such views, it might make you feel good to be the champion of a particular religion, but its ourpourings like this that very readily fuel and incite religious hatred. In the end it should come down to not what the Pope says and thinks but wht the average christian, hindu, jew or muslim believes in. and if tht belief is rooted in hatred then God save our country from the religious whiplash that will surely follow.
1.The Pope "told a group of visiting Indian bishops" those things.He didn't tell the Indian governent what laws to make and what not to.Pope has his opinions and he shared it with like minded people.What is wrong in this?Pope has opinions about many things in the world.Not every christian country accepts it. 2.'The above 'revelations' by His Holiness indicate Frustration with a capital F'.pooh!This is a kind of paranoia.As if converting India is Pope's main agenda! 3.'Pope's arrogance in denigrating the laws, the lawmakers and the laity of this country'.Am I missing something here?How many times Indian goverments have criticized American policies?Does that amount to 'denigrating the laws' of US by India? 4.'Nor does one recall Rome howling at Russia'.Did avakare ask the Russian bishops? 5.'India believes in live and let live and does not poke its nose into others' affairs that do not concern it'.Pope also,'poked his nose' in the matters that 'concern' him/his followers. 6.VHP openly said that they won't follow court order on Ayodhya issue,if it is against them.Is this okay?
Dear Mr. arvind, Your article is ofcourse a food for thought. I'm completely against conversion and a person who is proud of India's culture and tolerance. But before blaming anybody we should search our souls,what our governments or the 'elite class' have done for the downtrodden illiterate people of our country? And even after 50 years of independence most of our people are still living in a pitiable situation. Can we proud of such an India?... And today politicians and religious fanatics are fighting in the name of religion...who is there to fight for this poor ignorant people? seena
