Judging by the number and size of each response, we guys seem to be pretty passionate about defining beauty and the ranking of the other women.
If only we felt equally passionate about the state of the government and the corruption around us....we would be an Egypt right now... or a Tunisia or.....
As always keep dreaming India reality will hide itself.
Re: India's misplaced passion
by lotussong@rediffmail.com on Feb 17, 2011 10:21 AM
You would be shocked at how much self-image (especially people who are convinced they deserve nothing)-- affects society. Our youths each need to know that in any shape, size and color they are-- they are special and unique.
We need to stop at this inner-racism that is tearing the fabric of esteem. With strong esteem, a nation can go anywhere. With strong esteem, we are able to tolerate and respect others with peace.
I don't usually participate in this nonsense but I am intrigued by your tenacity to go into every comment and add your same two irrelevant cents Lissa. What is your story? BTW, newsflash..I live in Manhattan, NYC if you please, am petite, Indian and would be in the overweight category for you (I am not really fat, just busty). I was wooed like nobody's business by the NYC types for 2 years and am not happily married to an NYC man and live here. So your theory is senseless. Oval face? What made that a hallmark? I think this discussion is pointless, there is no one standard of beauty but your remarke hint at a deeper psychological problem. Please share it or get help. Oh and btw, thin does not translate to fit. I am an avid runner and hiker, I am very fit yet I am not pin thin. Really grow up!
Re: For Lissa
by lotussong@rediffmail.com on Feb 17, 2011 10:18 AM
Hello Sarah,
First of , congratulations. Surely you are very lovely.
You missed the point here.
The point was NOT to say that tall and thin was better than petite and overweight !! The point was that people have different standards of beauty.
But in the East, we end up mocking anyone who does not fit our standards.
No doubt, all attractive women in all shapes, sizes and colors are asked out everywhere. But you will admit there is a bell-curve of who is the trophy girlfriend/wife type. In the U.S. tall, thin and blonde is still top status in getting dates (it's now changing to brunettes too)-- and a Christie Brinkely type can date anyone she pleases..
On the other hand, the ultimate trophy wife in India may be similar to the voluptouous lovely Nita Ambani (now she lost weight -- but she was still considered lovely at any weight).
Now would an ultimate look like Christey Brinkley fit in Delhi and get asked out as much. Probably not.. Nita might beat her to it. And vice versa, in NYC and LA, the tall and thin do get selected to be models and get asked out more.
Does that mean short and overweight or tall and thin is the only standard? of course not. Petite and overweight are as pretty ! People have different standards of beauty-- and each hold their own as the 'truth'.
The West can learn from the East on how to accept and appreciate different sizes. The East and learn from the West to appreciate different colors.
Re: For Lissa
by lotussong@rediffmail.com on Feb 17, 2011 10:25 AM
Oval face? What made that a hallmark? -> generally, an oval face was determined to be the most appealing in recent scienticfic symmetry studies. (ie. we think Sonali Bendre's is nearly perfect !).
but see, that is still just one viewpoint and not science. Out in Delhi, many ppl tell us they like round faces-- and that's super cool.
It's just that out in the East, people do MOCK any woman that does not meet their tastebuds - while in the West, there is just a simple 'not their type'.. no mocking.
We just need tolerance. Sarah.. you missed the entire point.
so far frieda has been called: looks like from slum; slum girl even with make up looks like a nurse of a 2nd clas Govt Hospital....we should all call her sister freida chaiwali slumdog beauty
this is how indians think and treat their chaiwallis, slum girls, sisters..
for people in the west who think of indians as a benign lot, here is naked classism, racism and bigotry in full display. (on this particular thread the religious bigotry is unusally missing or has been moderated).
and the biggest hypocrites are the NRI lot who claim all the social benefits in the west and continue to spew this casteist bile.
rediff is providing a useful service of shining light on shining india and indian mentality.
i am just happy that an ordinary indian has achieved international success.
indians will pull down someone esp if its a commoner.
they would be singing paens if frieda was a brahmin, fair, slim beauty.
all the while rushing to the nearest pharmacy to grab the latest skin lightening cream.
Re: typical indian hypocrisy
by emeraldsong@rediffmail.com on Feb 16, 2011 07:26 PM
Exactly !! Tiy said it best.
People will never it.. but there were blogs when she came out that she was 'too brown' to represent India. there is a deep denial within our community to acknowledge that color often plays a huge factor in whom we praise and whom we reject! when members of our community try to bring this up, denials ensue -- and people point fingers that we may be ugly and feel rejected-- hence we 'cry'.
Yet, when Joel Stein articles come up, etc-- we conveniently forget that same discrimination is within us.
Are the girls from our slums beautiful? Yes, they are-- the symmetry and proportion in their features far surpasses most of the world's standards of feature measurements. We should be thankful that India is filled with a land of beautiful women of ALL COLORS! We should have our own tastes and let others enjoy theirs. what is all this mockery business??
Re: Re: typical indian hypocrisy
by ooh scooter on Feb 17, 2011 08:46 PM
what is wrong with a chaiwali. do u also want to add 'aachoot' or 'untouchable' as an adjective. filthy cow!
The girl has sense of style which most of the others in bollywood lack! She is very attractive and if the masses across the globe think the same then it's about time people respect their views! Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but Indian mentality is biased towards lighter skins, which is evident from the huge market for skin lightening products in the subcontinent! I come from India, so know the sentiment well!
Re: It's all about lighter skin colour!!!
by emeraldsong@rediffmail.com on Feb 16, 2011 07:28 PM
Agree with you ! Finally, someone who is not in denial.
the closer we come to the truth, the better we can resolve it.
We want the Indian community to not face racism-- we will have to ban our own racism.
but acc to indian standards, ash is the best. bipasha,kareena,katrina,vidya and even rani and kajol are more good looking than frieda (also they act 100 times better)
Freida has become a national obsession for mockery or disdain. She is a pretty starlet, that's it. India has a huge range of women.. and there is never any one who will fit everyone's taste. Tastes are not science or in someone's genes-- it's your viewpoint. Respect yours, respect that someone else's may be different.
The reason she's hated so much is that a dusky gal got praises from the West. If you don't like her or don't like high cheekbones, enjoy your baby-faced looks. ignore her.
Re: Freida faces a long battle
by shalini prasad on Feb 16, 2011 02:13 PM
I suppose Rocki and Lissa are the same person.
Freida is not hated for being a dusky gal who got praises from the West. Actually nobody understands why did that happen? Let's see when she comes back, once the obsession of west with her is over. Though personally, I wish her success.
Re: Freida faces a long battle
by shalini prasad on Feb 16, 2011 02:51 PM
By the way, Freida doesn't face any more battle than to prove herself in terms of acting in Hollywood. Because what doesn't work there is bad actors. She would care less what anyone else has to say about her as she has got whatever or more than she would have ever wished for.
Actually it's us who face a long a battle against being told that Freida is beautiful by the west, when we know she's not.
I suppose the list was compiled to rank women of different ethnicity in Hollywood. She was the only one there right now, hence there was no other choice, and we forgive the organisers. Though, It would be wrong to call her the most beautiful face of india... atleast by indians. To recognise something as beautiful is in our genes and not in some mathematical formula.
Re: Indian Beauty in Hollywood
by Lissa on Feb 16, 2011 01:25 PM
well, is it in our genes to NOT recognize beauty if the beauty is dusky or dark. yes, it seems so.
yet the most pudgy , un-even, unsymmetrical looks will be heralded as 'beautiful' as long as she's fair complexion and/or light eyed.
would have to disagree with you 100%. we Indians often do the reverse-- we're not able to see the extraordinary symmetrical beauty of our people --and prize even the chubbiest, square-faced or masculine looking fair woman as a great beauty. Bollywood is filled with fair women who wouldn't get asked out in a single date in NYC... (mousy).
Re: Re: Indian Beauty in Hollywood
by Zeng on Feb 16, 2011 01:31 PM
Seriously, what si your problem? What id Bollywood girls doesn't get a date in NYC? You think Americans have the final word on beauty? LOL.. you are laughable. You are being extremely silly.
I have Pakistani, Arabaian, Leabanese and even Sudani friends who are crazy about both Kajol and Kareena. If our girls can appeal to such wide demograhics, I won't really mind if they appeal to whites.
Re: Re: Re: Indian Beauty in Hollywood
by Lissa on Feb 16, 2011 01:36 PM
The guys here in NYC prefer them 5 feet 8 inches and thin, with high cheekbones.
the petite overweight types did not get asked out on Sat night dates (and one of them acted in Bollywood).
but that is just a point. the point is your tastes are not going to meet someone else's tastes.
this arrogance of 'our way is the only way' has got to go. you have your tastes, let others have theirs. this mocking of women of color has got to stop. (( and no, we have not been mocked -- but if you choose to believe so, go ahead ))
Re: Re: Re: Re: Indian Beauty in Hollywood
by Lissa on Feb 16, 2011 01:41 PM
and to be fair, it's not that overweight-petite is wrong-- it's just a generalization that they get overlooked her in NYC.. as much as the darker women get overlooked in Delhi.
does that mean either is wrong or bad? of course not.
it just means tastes are tastes, they're relative. but using one's tastes to HATE (as has been done to women of color in India and the world over) has got to stop. this is not due to personal reasons or causes-- it's a universal mission we must all rise to. if we accept ourselves, we shall accept others.
Re: Re: Indian Beauty in Hollywood
by shalini prasad on Feb 16, 2011 01:40 PM
Actually I can't see any feminine features in her, all I can see is Famine.
And please explain why deepika is loved so much more than Freida, though she is dark and never attempts to hide her complexion.
Chitrangada Singh is what is utter beauty is. Beauty is something that keeps you spell bound and mesmerized with it's mystery of why it is beautiful. Freida lacks that, that's why she's not as beautiful as most women in india.. Personally, I'm sorry if you had to face discrimination based on your color of features, which I'm not aware of. Since, my sister, who isn't as fair as other women but in my family but very beautiful, had more proposals coming to her than others, I am not aware such discrimination existed to such large extent.
Re: Re: Re: Indian Beauty in Hollywood
by Lissa on Feb 16, 2011 01:45 PM
the fight for women of color must be universal.. regardless of color. if we deny inner racism, we are denying a terrible injustice.
by the way, you assume we are writing because we faced color discrimination and therefore, feel a need to. actually you may be surprised at who we are and why we're writing this. It's not bcoz we faced discrimation, but because when we see discrimination out there, we must own it as our own.
Re: Re: Re: Indian Beauty in Hollywood
by Lissa on Feb 16, 2011 01:42 PM
famine is fine.. you can see that. someone else may see fit and high-cheekbone.
you have your tastes, someoen else has theirs.
p.s Deepika is usually pancake-lightened and actually advertised for a lightening cream-- and is mocked in teen blogs for her dusky looks. she has a harder time getting roles. don't you believe that if she was green eyed and fair, she would be inflooded? currently, she's not...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Indian Beauty in Hollywood
by shalini prasad on Feb 16, 2011 01:47 PM
Are we here in a teen blog? I don't think so. I suppose you have just graduated from being teen to being adult. I am not aware of any teen blogs mocking deepika for her dusky looks, for her accent maybe.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Indian Beauty in Hollywood
by Zeng on Feb 16, 2011 02:02 PM
You are really frustrated. Deepika has harder time getting roles - harder than whom? There are millions of fair girls looking for a chance in Bollywood. She is doing far better than all of them!
We all love kajols, Deepikas, Bipashas more than thousands of fair actresses around. So leave it there.
In India, you are fine if you are dark but have good looks. But if you are dark and ugly (which I assume is your case), hard luck. In any culture, there will be people who are dateless because of the local definition of beauty, so this is something you can't help. Lissa, move on and get a life
Re: Re: Indian Beauty in Hollywood
by Lissa on Feb 16, 2011 01:30 PM
sensible to those who subscribe to only their own truth of beauty.
fact is, most of the world has moved beyond to beauty in all shapes, sizes and colors and can see symmetrical features in a fraction of a second.
On the other hand, the most beautiful Indian faces often get overlooked due to inner-racism-- discrmination. and if you want to believe we are the ugly board to say, by all means , do so.
Re: Re: Re: Indian Beauty in Hollywood
by Zeng on Feb 16, 2011 01:43 PM
Most of the world - You think NYC is the center of the world and whites are always right. And remember, you are the one who says Indians are ugly and whites are the ones to identify the rare exotic beauties.
Stop preaching what is beautiful to others. Everybody have their right to have their opinion and will express it here. Whether you like it or not, who are you to force your western influenced ideas on everybody on this board? Lissa you are just one of the billion and stop teaching a billion people your ideas of what looks good.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Indian Beauty in Hollywood
by Lissa on Feb 16, 2011 01:47 PM
it's not about preaching.
it's about accepting that the dusky women of color who have faced racism throughout the world deserve better.
all women are equally beautiful, each in their own way. our extreme comments were meant to provoke some thought-invoking messages for our society to reach newer heights.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Indian Beauty in Hollywood
by Zeng on Feb 16, 2011 02:05 PM
all women are equally beautiful - LOL. Then why do you comment that most Bollywood girls would be dateless in NYC? First, theach the people of NYC that all women are beautiful. Then stop your crap about Freida being the most beautiful Indian girl. You are contradicting yourself and acting diplomatic won't work after all the crap that you have written.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Indian Beauty in Hollywood
by shalini prasad on Feb 16, 2011 01:58 PM
Nobody is discriminating against Freida. All, rest of us than you, are saying is that she is not beautiful enough to be the most beautiful face of India, which far far far diverse beauties than all the other countries put together.
Also, being thin is not pretty, not even in west. And men all over world love women who have more mass even if she's not miss universe.
Re: she is junk,,I mean no offence
by Lissa on Feb 16, 2011 01:18 PM
Aishwarya has beautiful eyes.. but she doesn't even have an oval face-- just small and round. not everyone gets her beauty.
there is no one STANDARD face that meets everyone's tastes. none.
Re: Re: she is junk,,I mean no offence
by Zeng on Feb 16, 2011 01:37 PM
LOL.. Now you start defining beauty.. and add that there is no standard to judge. Haha..
I am no Aish fan either, but your comments makes me wonder what is your problem?
