Punjabi CM is something no less than Mayawati and Chaggan Bhujbal, what has PWD Minister got to do with films . We request UP, Punjab and Mumbai politicians to keep POLITICS out of FILMS. FILMS are for public alone, Then there is republican party- are these party running Film Industry??? When will Indian cinema get respect, they are meant for screening- only public has the last word!!!! Censor BOARD is functioning still under Ministry. In India, politicians never understand what is Film industry upto, they tell ban smoking in Indian cinema - we have seen - all those remarks of Politician. By the way, Punjab is also place where PM comes from- why should then a state like Punjab politicize this issue. Something fishy!!!
Re: JHA and film
by Vinod Pandey on Aug 11, 2011 04:22 PM
Mayawati has spent Rs. 22 crore of public exchequer to furnish and renovate her house in Lucknow. She needs 2 crore more as she is still not satisfied with some interiors. She spent 2400 crores on her own statue as well as that of Kanshiram. Are these acts meant for helping dalits and other poors to come up in the society and lead a decent life. Now she is championong the cause of Dalits majority of whom are still dying of hunger. Crores of dalits other than a few thousand creamy layerwala are still living hand to mouth but their so called masihas and massihis enjoying a life even kings and queens of olden does will not dream of. If this is the result of democracy then fie upon this system. So far as these Dalits' so called well wishers are concerned they are trying to gag visual media so that the dark side of a rotten reservation policy remain hidden from the public. Other politicians are so cunning and clever form other parties like Badal, they will not call a spade a spade untill and unless this country becomes towering inferno due to selfish, rotten and stinking reservation policy which is in fact helping only a few thousand dalits and OBC and crores are still languishing in abject poverty. Only God can save this country if this breed of politicians are there to fleece this hapless country.
Re: Re: JHA and film
by hotz on Aug 11, 2011 04:46 PM
Its called boosting their morale and motivation by reminding themselves of their accomplishments..I have seen the historical massive temples and complexes built by toil and labor of dalits yet not allowed entry inside the same temple which they built in famine..thousands slaughtered in the name of sacrifice to the gods..I think its time that india recognise these wonderful peoples contribution..If not they would contribute a revolution like a french..I would prefer them to be peaceful than join anti india elements in millions
the khangi govt was a mute spectator coz it was Big B in trouble..contrast this to how the same fellows worked overtime to get the porki khan's movie released..
calling a backward person 'a backward' is a crime in our country. but when the same people go for govt. jobs, admissions & other facilities they put their 'backward' certificate on top .... how awkward !!!
Re: confusion...
by Vinod Pandey on Aug 11, 2011 04:34 PM
This time in UP Mulayam Singh is going to form the Government. I fear all statues of Mayawati will be broken to dust. May be late Kanshiram's statues will be spared as he is no more. How come a living politician who was once struggling to run her home and hearth burning thousands crores of hard earned currency of poor UP people being swindeled by a living loathsome politician. Late Bapu once said crate your beautiful statue in the hearts of the people and not in stones. But sadly his own congreei decisples spent crore on his stone made statues. Let Mulayam Singh come to power just to show Mayawati what a party of Yadavas can do. Hence vote enbloc to SP in next elections.
calling a backward person 'a backward' is a crime in our country. but when the same people go for govt. jobs, admissions & other facilities they put their 'backward' certificate on top .... how awkward !!!
Films are to be viewed by PUBLIC, not by Political leaders( JUST), when CENSOR BOARD Allowed the film CLEAN, why should one delete some parts even (objectionable), Can we not leave films for PUBLIC ALONE? IS IT DEMOCRACY, what will be the merit if scenes are removed at last in fear of PROTESTS, who are POLITICIANS- THEY ARE VOTED, let them respect that at least- MUMBAI and UP Politicians should allow democratic feelings to go ahead, where is there any voice for it now. BY the way why BIG B's film get opposition , we have nothing to say, Mayawatis and Ajit PAWAR colleagues should favour public opinion. They can not ride over CENSOR LAWS. By the way, was not MUMBAI capital of Hindi cinema, and now they are banning and obecting HINDI films, very progressive City Mumbai is now. Let us FOrget about Mayawati's UP!!!
Reservation is needed for another 500 years. If forward castes had any merit would India have been in this state? Time has come to junk forward caste merit. Foward caste merit has to make way for unmerit of BC, OBC, minorities etc. DOWN with forward caste merit.
Re: Reservation is must
by Jack Philip on Aug 11, 2011 04:20 PM
Down with merit! Long live reservation. Let the country go to DOGS and politicians! who cares for the country??????
Re: Re: Reservation is must
by Rudraksh Khandelwal on Aug 11, 2011 04:41 PM
The state of the country has nothing to do with the merit or demerit of a particular section of the society. Anyways India has come a long way from what She was a few decades ago; no doubt we have a long way to go.
As far as your view of having reservation for another 500 years go, I disagree. We've had enough of this system of promoting people just because they fall in a particular section of society. 'Merit' should be the factor which should decide if a candidate should get a seat in education or job. I understand that the marginalised people need some assistance but that has to be monetory to help them come up to the same level as other people and compete with the rest of the Indians and get what they deserve. Reservation is doing us no good...how good an engineer would a person turn up to be when he secured admission by getting -28 (you read right 'minus 28') in engineering entrance exam when others from general category with 60-70 marks out of hundred are being denied admissions. It's high time we give up this reservation policy and rely on meritocracy. It's only then that India will exploit it's full potential and be the torch bearer to the entire world.
Re: Re: Re: Reservation is must
by Vivek Dev on Aug 11, 2011 06:27 PM
What has this merit produced? Zilch What is output of IITs where candidates with high so called 'merit' get admission? A big fat zero. This merit business is all fake. This fake merit will never achieve anything for India.
Re: Re: Reservation is must
by Rudraksh Khandelwal on Aug 11, 2011 04:42 PM
The state of the country has nothing to do with the merit or demerit of a particular section of the society. Anyways India has come a long way from what She was a few decades ago; no doubt we have a long way to go.
As far as your view of having reservation for another 500 years go, I disagree. We've had enough of this system of promoting people just because they fall in a particular section of society. 'Merit' should be the factor which should decide if a candidate should get a seat in education or job. I understand that the marginalised people need some assistance but that has to be monetory to help them come up to the same level as other people and compete with the rest of the Indians and get what they deserve. Reservation is doing us no good...how good an engineer would a person turn up to be when he secured admission by getting -28 (you read right 'minus 28') in engineering entrance exam when others from general category with 60-70 marks out of hundred are being denied admissions. It's high time we give up this reservation policy and rely on meritocracy. It's only then that India will exploit it's full potential and be the torch bearer to the entire world.
Re: Re: Reservation is must
by Vivek Dev on Aug 11, 2011 06:29 PM
What have the merit wala IITians achieved in around 60 years? Any new technology, any major, noteworthy contribution to any field of technology or science? Nothing. Merit is what merit does.
Re: Re: Re: Reservation is must
by Rudraksh Khandelwal on Aug 11, 2011 07:20 PM
Agreed but that is a different discussion what IITs have done. Your argument does neither support nor refute the original discussion of whether reservation should be carried forward for another 500 years!! Even if I accept your argument in favour of reservation what would that lead too....better research, newer technology or some ground breaking invention??? The point is reservation is doing nothing more than crippling the society by letting the foundation to be weak on which the future of India would stand.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Reservation is must
by Vivek Dev on Aug 11, 2011 07:51 PM
My point is we have had this fake merit for too long. Reservation is a game changer, it will displace this fake merit and give a chance to 'unmerit' which may be the real merit.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Reservation is must
by Vivek Dev on Aug 11, 2011 07:54 PM
How can you discount that it could lead to better research, new technology etc. etc. THe bane of Indian education is it is highly oriented toward rote learning which is the paradigm followed by the forward castes. This will change and give chance to a better paradigm.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Reservation is must
by Rudraksh Khandelwal on Aug 11, 2011 10:41 PM
Reservation doesn't answer the problem of 'fake merit' that you highlighted, on the contrary, it would aggravate it. Reservation indeed was a game changer and it still is but just for politicians who ride on this sensitivity of the masses to stay in power. The common man has nothing to gain from it! The general category aspirants don't support 49.5% reservation and are an agitated lot. This reservation also is doing no good to the reserved category aspirant because he gets lackasdiacal towards studies knowing too well that he would get admission or a job based on reservation. The foundation itself gets weak, how would the building (read career) stand and face the challenges of modern times?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Reservation is must
by Rudraksh Khandelwal on Aug 12, 2011 01:09 PM
Section Message deleted by moderator had this (with some content removed)
in my earlier post. This gives the marginalised people a level playing field and would promote healthy competition.
2. What have the merit wala IITians achieved in around 60 years: [RK] IITians have achieved a lot and if you look for a list of prominent IITians in and outside India you'll be able to appreciate this fact. The discussion however is not what IITians have achieved but whether reservation is needed for another 500 years or not. Accepting or denying the competence of IITians does not support or refute the point of our discussion. I would like to highlight (if you do not already know) that not just upper class aspirants make it into the IITs but SCc, STs and OBCs also for whom almost half (49.5%) of the total seats are reserved. When half of the seats are reserved for SCs/STs/OBCs what else can you rightously and justifialbly demand?
3. My point is we have had this fake merit for too long. Reservation is a game changer, it will displace this fake merit and give a chance to 'unmerit' which may be the real merit.
[RK] There is nothing like 'fake merit' but merit or demerit of a person based on his capabilities. A capable reserved category student is as good as a general category student and vice versa. The point is incompetence should not be promoted at any stage.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Reservation is must
by Vivek Dev on Aug 12, 2011 08:52 AM
On what basis you say it will not answer the problem of 'fake merit'? Reservation will do away with this fake merit which has screwed up everything in this country. Even with reservation the student has to study to get minimun marks for passing the exam. Those marks are enough to provide comeptent engineers, doctors, and other professionals. It is a fallacy promoted by forward castes that you need 90 per cent plus marks to be a good engineer, doctor etc. Edison did not even have formal education, yet he has the highest number of inventions to his credit. High marks dont mean anything, especially when you have coaching classes, tuition etc to help you get those. This fake merit has to go if India is to improve. Fake merit has already screwed up India big time.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Reservation is must
by Rudraksh Khandelwal on Aug 12, 2011 12:15 PM
Your Statement: Reservation is needed for another 500 years Your Points to Support the Statement:
1. Foward caste merit has to make way for unmerit of BC, OBC, minorities etc [RK] According to Oxford dictionary 'merit' means 'quality of being particularly good or worthy, especially so as to deserve praise or reward' The education systems worldwide assesses people's merit based on how they do in exams conducted at various stages of formal education. Its appropriate to rate them accordingly which later forms the basis of selection in higher education and jobs. Ultimately one cannot do well at higher education and at job if the base understanding is not good enough. Yous statement "Foward caste merit has to make way for unmerit of BC, OBC, minorities etc" essentially boils down to saying that a lesser capable person should be given better opportunities than a person who is brighter or better. This idea is flawed and does send a message of promoting incompetence; nobody in the entire world would support this. I understand that sometimes people (not only SCs/STs/OBCc but also ofthe General category) need monetory help to attend coachings etc. to come at par with other aspirants who are financailly better off and hence I had said "I understand that the marginalised people need some assistance but that has to be monetory to help them come up to the same level as other people and compete with the rest of the Indians and get what they deserve."
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Reservation is must
by Rudraksh Khandelwal on Aug 12, 2011 12:17 PM
4. THe bane of Indian education is it is highly oriented toward rote learning which is the paradigm followed by the forward castes: [RK] Our education system draws much influence from Britain and has been so since pre-Independence times. It was the Bristish who formulated this system not somebody from forward caste. Whether or not the education system promotes open thinking than rote learning is a separate debate but it in no way supports reservation for another 500 years.
5. Reservation will do away with this fake merit which has screwed up everything in this country. Even with reservation the student has to study to get minimun marks for passing the exam. Those marks are enough to provide comeptent engineers, doctors, and other professionals:
[RK] As mentioned earlier there is nothing like 'fake merit' but merit or demerit of a person based on his capabilities. You say "Even with reservation the student has to study to get minimun marks for passing the exam". It appears to me that you are suggesting that the education system should do away with a 'minimum passing marks' criteria, are you? How will then be a person assessed? Which country in the world does not academically assess students by means of grades or marks? Without assessment how would higher education institutes or employers find who is suitable for the course or job? This would promote incompetence which is improper.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Reservation is must
by Rudraksh Khandelwal on Aug 12, 2011 12:18 PM
You say " It is a fallacy promoted by forward castes that you need 90 per cent plus marks to be a good engineer, doctor etc.": First of all this is not true; even if I assume it to be true what is stopping the SCs/STs and OBCs to study hard and obtain good marks? As I said the government should help the economically weaker students (this includes all General, SCs, STs and OBCs) with financial assistance to get the same kind of coaching etc as the financially able ones are taking. We shall then let them prove their mirth in competetive exams for higher education and jobs.
India cannot afford to keep a section of its society always with crutches no matter whether they need it now or not. It should be sheer competence which should differntiate between two people not their surnames when it comes to educational or job opportunities.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Reservation is must
by Rudraksh Khandelwal on Aug 12, 2011 12:27 PM
Please keep the original point of discussion in mind before replying; your posts had progressively lost focus from the main issue.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Reservation is must
by Vivek Dev on Aug 12, 2011 01:54 PM
1. The experience with this so called 'merit' in our country is it has completely failed to deliver. It may be the experience of west that scholastic achievement and performance of the job may have some positive co-relation but in India this is not true. The uniform failure of such 'merited' individuals and classes across all domains administration, media, academia, science, technology is there for all to see. Therefore we can safely say that merit as understod in our country (i.e. scorinng high marks in competitive exams) does not translate into performance on the job. This is all to evident.
2. IITians have achieved nothing over the last 50 years since the institutes were set up. The last 50 years have seen tremendous developments, innovations in all fields of engineering and technology. Do IITs have anything noteworthy contribution in any field. NO.
3. Merit as measured in our system does not indicate any potential capabilities as I have shown.
4. IT is true that the British established the education system in our country, but now that Indians are working it, it seems to have gone to seed. After the BRits introduced it, the system produced great men and women in all fields which led to what is know as the Indian renessaince. BUt after the Brits left and Indians took over the system stopped delivering. So the problem may not be with the system but with who is adminstering it.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Reservation is must
by Vivek Dev on Aug 12, 2011 02:02 PM
5. In the overwhelming majority of jobs in engineering, medicine, administration you dont need Einstein's and Rutherfords, and Niel Bohrs. You need people of average intelligence. And now it is also known that EQ matters much more than IQ. There is a famous study by one US university that found an inverse relationship between the IQs of CEOs of corporates and the peformace of the company.
This merit stuff has to therefore be kicked out for good. It has failed and it will continue to fail in INdia. The experience of west with merit is not borne out India. Merit is as merit does, not what it scores in competitive exams.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Reservation is must
by Vivek Dev on Aug 12, 2011 02:46 PM
Where have I strayed- I have answered your assertions. And the main point why we need reservations is supported by the points I have listed. Where have I strayed. I have made a case for reservations based on various considerations. How can you call it straying?
Mr. Jha is laughing all the way to the bank with this one. Way to go. The new mantra in bollywood. create a contraversy, then watch the cash registers ringing. No wonder, that horrible film rajneeti was deemed to be a hit.
