All the oil sector PSU's are India's pride. They are serving 1.2 billion population day and night working in extreme conditions. Whether it is tsunami, cyclone or tragedy like Leh,or Kargil war, oil Psu's are always there to serve the country. They are the maximum contributors in CSR intiatives, give highest dividend, create maximum jobs without getting any support in form of money from Government. So called Private players are only there to promote their self interest and business interest.In crisis situations, they just disappear.
Re: Re: Re: Oil Sector PSU's are India's pride
by SRIDHAR RAGHUNATHA RAO on Aug 26, 2010 03:46 PM
Please donot talk like a half baked politician. Did you not enjoy hard money at Market rate for your land?
Re: Oil Sector PSU's are India's pride
by Raja on Aug 26, 2010 06:55 PM
I totally agree with you. With very limited resources, all the 3 oil cos (IOC, BPCL, HPCL) have performed excellently well inspite of the best efforts from Govt to wipe them off. These companies have always ensured availability which is very crucial for this countries development.
I strongly opine that Maharatna or Navaratna status are not at all justified for the following reasons: 1. Most of the PSU's so classified are Oil sector companies where market is of basic essential commodity and it's prices are administered by the Government periodically. Hence, whtever be the market ruling price the companies are bound to prosper with hefty profits by not facing any competition. Similar are the cases of coal, steel and natural gas based PSU's. 2. In respect of Bharath Electronics and Hindusthan Aeronautics, the main and perhaps the only major customer is Defence and hence the market is totally assured for security reasons. Reasonably good Profit margin is built up in the basic cost and as such probability of loss never exists. 3. As regards, Bharath Heavy Electricals, the very name is suggestive of it's heavy electrical equipment manufacturing for which we have very few competitors in the domestic market. Also, the customer base is very limited and private enterprises are not sufficiently encouraged. 4. None of the PSU's so listed are therefore enjoying protected market environment and not open to competativeness. 5. None of the PSU's facing open buyers market with ruthless price war are making profits and are slowly fading. In the light of foregoing factors I reiterate my stand that the yard stick of Navaratna or Maharatna should consider the above parameters and all Indian Industries - whether PSU or Private Enterprise, should be considered.
Re: NAVARATNA AND MAHARATNA PSU'S
by Abhay Kumar on Aug 26, 2010 04:10 PM
Very true and well analysed. We know what the HAL is doing for Army.HAL is not able to produce a good Helicopter. Their plan are running so late that they get requirement A(let) in time T but they understand A1 and after many many years they make B which is again of no use with the time. So Army has to deal with Russia and EU.Similarly, the OIL and Energy companies are good because its nature.But they are far below in terms of facilities,innovations and support in contrats to their international competitors.Similarly, the Coal India was in deep loss due to heavy corruption and mafia exploration..i am not sure its in profit now.Similarly BCCL.These Maharatana will become like Maharaja very soon...
Re: NAVARATNA AND MAHARATNA PSU'S
by sanjay saraswat on Aug 26, 2010 02:09 PM
I have a firm belief that u do not know even iota about PSUs specially Maharatna and Navratna. So please refrain from comments on PSUs like a worthless brain
Re: Re: NAVARATNA AND MAHARATNA PSU'S
by Madikeri Abu on Aug 26, 2010 03:17 PM
Dear Mr Sanjay, Mr.Sridhar is absolutley right, u r the one who is having a worthless brain. All these PSU make profit only when they are in monopolistic environment and when the real competition starts they go to dogs. U know how much BSNL used to make profit with their shabby customer service and where they are now once the private telecom companies started services. And there are many many BSNLs and Air Indias which must be shut down to save tax payers money.
Re: Re: Re: NAVARATNA AND MAHARATNA PSU'S
by KR Prasanna on Aug 26, 2010 04:23 PM
Dear Madikeri Abu Had u ever used any mobile before BSNL come into the market??? The pvt operators were charging even for the incoming calls... even now in rural sector where only service is the criteria and not the commercial aspect, it is only the BSNL which is providing the services.. ur so called pvt operators work if they are commercially profited,, study well before making any comments
Re: Re: Re: Re: NAVARATNA AND MAHARATNA PSU'S
by Vikas Arora on Aug 26, 2010 05:21 PM
Commercial players do not have access to unlimited taxpayers money to run their operation. BSNL where as has got access to that. Everybody runs a business for profit only. Also look into the pathetic service given by BSNL even after having so long in the business. Even with large and remote reach...the number of users of Airtel and Vodafone are much higher in number
Re: Re: NAVARATNA AND MAHARATNA PSU'S
by SRIDHAR RAGHUNATHA RAO on Aug 26, 2010 03:17 PM
Please answer to my points logically with facts and then comment. Mere emotions will not work and that's why we cannot compete in international market.
Re: Re: Re: NAVARATNA AND MAHARATNA PSU'S
by SRIDHAR RAGHUNATHA RAO on Aug 26, 2010 03:41 PM
My above comment is directed to Sri Sanjay Saraswat. Sri Madikeri Abu has supplemented my views.
Re: Re: Re: Re: NAVARATNA AND MAHARATNA PSU'S
by pankaj on Aug 26, 2010 04:52 PM
Criticizing PSU blindly is not right. You have to see that what their objective was and what they have achieved. Profit was never an objective of PSU. If they had profit as their main objective they would have made it easily because they had a monopoly to begin with. However their objective was to build an industrial base and they have done it. Having said that it is also fact that now the time has changed and therefore these PUS should also change their style of functioning and they should try to more professional and efficient. Few PSU like BHEL have already done that and now they are globally competitive. Government should provide more freedom to the PSU so that they could compete with private players and improve their level of competitiveness.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NAVARATNA AND MAHARATNA PSU'S
by SRIDHAR RAGHUNATHA RAO on Aug 26, 2010 05:41 PM
But now, Profit is the main criterion for deciding the celebrated Maharatba / Navaratna Status and that is the sole criterion for implementing the Salary revision of 01-01-2007. The Policy has changed long back.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NAVARATNA AND MAHARATNA PSU'S
by Abhay Kumar on Aug 26, 2010 05:13 PM
Profit was never a motto and will never be a motto for PSU and Govt Organization.They know, even if they are running in millions dollors loss..other common people are their to give the heavy Tax to sustain the Loss.How can a private organization will survive with such a loss if they had a thinking that PROFIT IS NOT THE OBJECTIVE...Just making the Industry base is good. But the story should continue. They had done the baseline till the Globalization. but what after Globalization? Still they have the same mindset...
most of these PSUs maharatna or great ratna are so maha because of govt policies and not because of their business sense. see what happened to SAIL, when there was slump, it was almost closed, but for nature of its product. see what happened to Hindustan Photo Films. when PSU earns profit, every body from employee to govt loot[either as bribes or dividends]. they wont save for rainy day. and they go for unrelated expansion. then there is super conservatives, who spend Rs10/- to save Rs1/-. it there is one with pragmatic business sense, he will be hounded out.
Re: maharatnas
by Krishna on Aug 26, 2010 12:36 PM
All the PSUs are micromanaged by the Govt, and they do not have much say about the policies. So the blame squirely goes to the Govt and the DPE. The problem is we do not learn from others, for example the ownership model which is being followed by China is highly successful. But we want our system dictated by the Babus and the netas. Yes corruption is there, but beileve me, corruption is very high in private sector also. You cannot be a successful businessman in India, if you do not cheat. As a matter of fact who is not corrupt in India. May be one in million.
Re: maharatnas
by ram gop on Aug 26, 2010 01:05 PM
IN ECONOMIC SLUMP SAIL WAS DOWN BCOZ OF HIGH CAPEX DURING THAT TIME & LOWER DEMAND/PRICES.BHILAI WAS STILL PROFIT IN THAT TIME.SAIL HAD EMPLOYEE(INCLUDING SWEEPER/WORKERS) MORE THAN 2 LAC ,EVEN TISCO CAN'T MAKE PROFIT WITH SUCH A HUGE NO OF EMPLOYEES.
Re: Re: maharatnas
by saurabh shrivastava on Aug 26, 2010 06:01 PM
Now Bhilai Steel plant has gone so lean that its capacity is around 50K out of which 25K are contractors. BSP as a firm is doing very good with minimal wastage and high efficiency. This is just a information. No analysis or opinion here.
Well, some of the PSUs doing well. But all the PSUs are not he same. Some PSUs have the utilization rate of arround 160%, but there revenues ar eminimal. Some big PSUs did inflate their financial figures like the Raju did for satyam. They work lethergicaaly without taking any responsibility. They invest the least amount on R&D. They only need transfer of technology from abroad. Look at the relience, airtel, tatas, L& Ts, Mahindras, Infosys, how they make fortunes, where as many PSUs after existance of last 50-60 years have done nothing. Only eating the taxpayers money. There is still no repent for that. Can anybody tell me did any PSU made an indegenised product. the answer is no. They get technologies from abroad.
See the example of RCOM and BSNL. I read the yesterdays times of india bangalore edition,the TRAI report, indicates BSNL is the worst service record among all the telecom operatos in karnataka. Look at air india, Govt. is pumping mony for year now. Whats the result. a small company like spice jet can make profit, but not air india. Only losses. Look at ITI, they can not compete with smaller companies today. Govt. still pumping money. And HAL, BEL, defence related companies, they survive because govt. banned FDI investiment in defence products.
Yes, we need to give PSUs maharatnas, navaratnas etc. as a encouragement, but in turn they should come up with some results.
I wish all the PSUs to make good profit.and make our nation proud
Re: PSU
by ram gop on Aug 26, 2010 01:00 PM
every body is repeatedly talking of taxpayers money.but let me remind the most of the big psus doesn't reqd/take cash/equity infusion from govt except the initial investment long time back & they are paying much more dividends to govt.big psus are not eating money they are creating but the govt/individuals/mahachore netas are looting.instead from the fpos govt have taken money from public to reduce fiscal deficit like ntpc/nmdc/nhpc/rec FPO.look there pay hike.behare garib neta bus 2/400 crore hi hain unke pass.
Re: PSU
by Rajesh Modi on Aug 26, 2010 11:48 AM
prices of cement steel coal oil bread butter soaps liquid detergents salt potatoes hamburger multiplex tickets "paid news" should all fall down nand pur like heavens
Re: PSU
by munna on Aug 26, 2010 01:03 PM
May I know what relience, airtel, tatas, L& Ts, Mahindras, Infosys have invented. As far as I know all indian firms whether they are PSU or Private, all uses only foreign technology. Can you name a operating system or software which Infosys, TCS etc have made? Is RIL's Jamnagar Refinery has been built on Indian Technology? Is any car of India has Indian Engine? All indian companies do only application part. so do not blame only PSUS.
Re: Re: PSU
by Debadutta mishra on Aug 26, 2010 01:48 PM
Yes, agree with you. But all the private companies have inovative ideas. See RCOM, you have some problem, their response is far better than if you have aproblem with BSNL.
Technology wise we are lagging. Thats what these PSUs are created to do some developement. But it is now merely a employment providing agency.
On top, lots of strikes etc.
And at the end what is the profit they provide is a mere amount comaparing to a similar proportion private company.
Any business enterprise started by the government should only serve as a catalyst. It should be disposed at the earliest opportunity for the citizens to own.
Citizens on their own will not be able to start any enterprise which needs billions to start. This where the government should come in. This has been happening in Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore and many other small countries. For example chip fabrication involves not only heavy financial investment but also sophisticated techonology. Citizens can never manage this on their own.
Recently it was reported that graduates from Indian universities are not employable or not employment ready. The reason for this state is that the graduates are from schools run by charlatans; their only aim is to exploit the education market. This is also the case in the health industry. I hope the government will look into establishing:
1. Well equiped schools/universities of international standard and staffed with the best teachers available. They should be non-donation seeking and admission based on merit only. Such schools should be established in all cities. Once established, it should be sold to the public with no political interference; and
2. World class hospitals in every city with all the sophisticated equipments required. Citizens will not have to seek treatments overseas then. Once established, sell it to the public too.
The government must ensure that whatever is produced in this country is trusworthy.
Re: Government should serve as a catalyst only
by Rajesh Modi on Aug 26, 2010 11:51 AM
market prices of ril psu psu banks realty share shall all fall down and we realty sector prices all over India should fall so that 1929 recession should visit once again so that we can all stand in lines for daily rations whic should be cheaper and aaadnndnnfgngdl
Whether Maharatna or Navratna, salary of employees are peanut as compared to MNC or private sector. Govt is sucking blood like anything. If you demand face the music.
Re: salary
by Vikas Arora on Aug 26, 2010 05:29 PM
Pvt sector does not have social securities like pension. appraisals are done based on the performance and not based on some agreement by union where a performer and a looser both are getting the same hike....all aspects has to be seen before you think to compare the salary. Also these days govt employees are paid much better then in the Pvt. Sector. At initial phase, if you look at the compensation of an employee of Pvt. Sector Company, you will not feel like raising this issue.
Re: salary
by s mumbai on Aug 26, 2010 10:10 AM
thanx to morons in the union cabinet who care for their money but not for hard working psu employees....if politicos deserve 50K basic then the lowest cadre exec must get 200K basic
Re: salary
by Kabir Khan on Aug 26, 2010 10:58 AM
Probably you do not have any idea of Govt Sector salary. Know the fact and comment. Private sectors cant afford that much for freshers. Do you know the pay band for these companies for freshers?? and it's your IT coolie companies, suck blood.Idiot
Disinvestment 100% needs to be done for all these cos so that govt can get rid of these.These are highly inefficient co, with much surplus staff ,fat salary structure and centre for corruption.
Operation should be as per private palyers like Reliance,Tata,Infosys,Jindal group,Mittal group and so on. Today these cos are burden for govt and eating into tax payer's money for growth and infrastructure. These cos are also making negative impact of india globally due to their inefficient operation.
Re: Disnvestment needs to be done
by indy on Aug 26, 2010 09:46 AM
you are totally wrong, please dont pass general comments.. many of the PSUs have much better productivity and profits than yous so called mittals jindas reliance. i work in a miniratna co. and its productivity is better than Tata Steel. Please go and study the stats before making such age old comments.. Further more all of these PSUs spend huge amount on CSR activities. CEOs of these PSU get 1/100 of the salary than that of the CEOs of Mittal Jindal. Mukesh Ambany made a 17 storey house spending 1000 crores of share holders' money.. Mittals live in world's costliest house.
Re: Disnvestment needs to be done
by ram gop on Aug 26, 2010 09:55 AM
the only issue with these companies is the autonomy.they depend on govt for big decisions & sometimes to loose bcoz of vested iterest of concerned ministers.otherwise most of these are very good companies(mah/nav/mini ratnas)having stable balancesheet.if another downturn happen u may see big comp may fall but these will succeed.
Re: Disnvestment needs to be done
by Sushil Kumar on Aug 26, 2010 09:47 AM
Government don't use tax payer's money for growth and infrastructure of these profit making companies. Rather government gets dividend from their profit to be utilised for growth and infrastructure development of the country.
Re: Re: Disnvestment needs to be done
by abhiroopranjana on Aug 26, 2010 01:33 PM
Tata is a maha chor co. under Ratan Tata. Not a single product from TATA has entered my house for last ten years. When JRD was in charge the story was different.
Disinvestment 100% needs to be done for all these cos so that govt can get rid of these.These are highly inefficient co, with much surplus staff ,fat salary structure and centre for corruption.
Operation should be as per private palyers like Reliance,Tata,Infosys,Jindal group,Mittal group and so on. Today these cos are burden for govt and eating into tax payer's money for growth and infrastructure. These cos are also making negative impact of india globally due to their inefficient operation.
Re: Disnvestment needs to be done
by heypal on Aug 26, 2010 09:28 AM
you still didn't get a lesson after seeing America's privatisation. India survived only because of PSUs, do remember that !!!
Re: Re: Disnvestment needs to be done
by Atanu Chatterjee on Aug 26, 2010 11:12 AM
india survived because indian banks didn't get carried away and offcourse the role of RBI cant be ignored. Chinese, japanese, brazilian banks were unimpacted too. PSUs in general didn't have anything to do here
Re: Re: Disnvestment needs to be done
by raj on Aug 26, 2010 11:21 AM
India survived because Americans sacrificed their jobs to you .. never ignore the hand that feed you.. sorry to say but this is a wrong attitude.. you may be a mahapurush but wrong is wrong
Re: Disnvestment needs to be done
by ram gop on Aug 26, 2010 10:00 AM
u should also talk of wrong doings of these biggies.how they manipulate the sysrtem except tatas/infosys.take the case of jindals power plant at chhatisgarh no environment clearance clearnce take for diff place & work started elsewhere.the stack falling of vendanta at korba.
Re: Life Insurance Corporation of India
by sravani v on Aug 26, 2010 09:56 AM
n why is it worth mentioning?? for having outdated n incompetitive products??
Re: Re: Life Insurance Corporation of India
by raj on Aug 26, 2010 11:23 AM
who said outdated?? what date are you comparing?? never ignore the land you are born
Re: Re: Re: Life Insurance Corporation of India
by ramakrishnan pv on Aug 27, 2010 08:16 AM
The Net Assets have crossed 11 Lakh Crores. LIC regained its market share to 73%. Can all this happen with Outdated Products. See the products offered by Pvt Insurance Companies. Either Its Ulips or Term Insurance. Go check yourself FIrst
