What has come about us in India ? Are we unable to handle this new found status ? The media is going to town talking about trivial issues while ignoring the issues that matter. yes, we in the IT /ITES space are basking and do have pools - but a larger issue is that of the land being grabbed by our companies from poor helpless farmers in the name of special economic zones. Will the media ever highlight their cause ?
The Lobo's of the world above give their crap and the media laps it up and glamorises it as India shining. Will the media ever flash their bulbs on farmers being short changed ? The fact that the average rural folk or slum dweller doesnt have enough water to drink in this 60th year of independence instead of wank offices ? No - it will talk about Vijay Mallya having a bath in mineral water flown in from Paris.Will Rediff ever wake up to the fact that people whose lands have been snatched away for Economic zones or land sharks for developing our Country and putting it on the world map are starving today ? Their lives have been thrown out of gear and their children do not get a square meal a day ? Nopes - Rediff - we are proud of you - go on talking about SRK, Shilpa Shetty, Should AB be president or what wine is available for $50k a bottle. After all India is rocking - the poor and the helpless in India be damned.
RE:We are such ball talkers
by Sarkar on Feb 18, 2007 02:34 PM
You are absolutely right, Rahul ! the way the media is lapping up crap from the IT sector is amazing. Gyms inside offices -- aha what fun. But at whose cost is this fun going on ? The common man can go to hell -- feed him poison in the form of pesticide, make him drink gutter water in the name of cold drinks -- find out as many ways as you can of cutting his pocket and you are counted as the vibrant future of India. There is an old song which I can quote -- "is you money that good will it buy you forgiveness do you think it could ..."
RE:We are such ball talkers
by Confused on Feb 18, 2007 08:17 AM
Dear Rahul, What you said is undisputable. you wrote very well using right words. But will any one will listen? and if no one is listining then what the people who really care for the poor and injustice should do? Confused i am/
RE:We are such ball talkers
by aashish sss on Feb 18, 2007 10:32 AM
In todays worls its all about business. Some companies dont pay taxes, some have illegal means to evade them and some have their lobby systems supporting all these. Harrsament of the farmers n all stuff is just so trivial. When co. like my Infy acquire land they provide equal opportunities for ppl in those villages to take up jobs for campus maintenence and alike. And lands are not grabbed at gun point. Look at the Pune DC. Villagers in hinjewadi are enjoying more benefits than they could have ever imagined. They can now afford better education for their children et all. B ve ppl.. look at the height we are set to achieve, dnt b afraid of the depths we have left behind. And to understand what Infy is.. u got to be a Infoscion.. and I take pride in saying this after my 7 yrs of loyalty with Infy.. I have been a part of every aspect of its growth.. n m proud to be..
RE:RE:We are such ball talkers
by Rahul Oberoi on Feb 18, 2007 11:42 AM
Stop whining Ashish. Hasn't "your" company taught you to grow up and understand what is being said in what context before jumping up and down like a kid as if his toy is being taken away ? Read the above again and see what is being talked about in general - what the media is harping about - instead of defending what "your" company does to villagers whose land it takes. Incidentally if you must know beyond what your internal company communications has fed you to feel proud about villagers rehab - take a look around yourself before believing in PR spiel.
RE:RE:RE:We are such ball talkers
by Abhishek Chaki on Feb 18, 2007 07:05 PM
Mr. Rahul Oberoi and et al supporting the cause of some kind social unjustice met to the poor people. I do agree bits and parts that media has larger role to play in highlighting these issues. But it not about the companies who aquire land to build their offices. The problem definately lies elsewhere.
In your view, in a country like India, you can not afford to aquire larger lands for corporations, hospitals, other institutes? I am sure you are wrong. While your essesntial problem is with the system how it works. We should have a standard rehab policy and thats surely missing! You can not grill the LOBO's out of it! Neither can you hate the IT community for having "GRABBED" land!
You need to understand one thing that it is at the hand of govt to execute proper plans which would eventually eradicate the concern right from root level! How many companies will you hate and how many can you actually stop by writing in this blog!? You may point at IT companies for grabbing land and displacing poor people. That means in one or small way even few Oberoi'S should start building small mansions and palaces to be used only for residential purpose! One doesn't need so much of residential space for self content after all compared to companies who are doing it for larger emlpoyee no! People are thankful having brought at least a distinction to Indian economy.
And let me highlight even this, when Keonics Electronics City in Hosur road was built, Infy was one of the very few companies who bought land and you may validate this from your database about the nos displaced and who are not in so-good-shape!
Instead the venting out at incorrect places we must understand where should we strike at so as to gradually solve this issue. Stopping industry is only talking like an Orthodox who's simply concerned about the next door, unaware of the global competetion to which the conuntry must buckle up with.
RE:RE:RE:We are such ball talkers
by Saik DJ on Feb 18, 2007 02:21 PM
To do quality Software Work you don't need acres and acres of Land . Infy etc. are trying to have a full proof plan to survive in case US stops outsourcing . Poor guys what can they do when they know there doom will come within 5-6 yrs .
RE:We are such ball talkers
by INR on Feb 18, 2007 08:16 PM
Common people, dont scream on farmers land always...howmuch land they are busying...what is this noise around., There are crores of acres waste land, and government can use. or give to farmers those and take the land where it requires. For business, the place is not important. only location is need, for selling purpose, SEZ is.not the place for selling the prodcuts. so very well govenement get some waste lands or other places not by farmers owneed. Uncessorrily people are always making nuisance onthis..its like if u leave the land , the farmers will earn and get money of what they need. never man. nothing like that
RE:RE:We are such ball talkers
by hello on Feb 19, 2007 12:30 AM
INR, well said!!! I also think to buy the land where these people telling as "Farmers Land" and grow vegetable, Potato, Aloe vera. Believe me. Even jalthropa won't grow peacefully in those land these cheap politicians argue as Farmers Land.
I can't understand why all are after Infy while there are several other companies like Sapient,Patni,WNS,Microsoft's Global Technical Support Centre etc are mentioned in the article!!!Also in India, almost all top and mid level IT/ITES companies work out of large campuses which includes,but not only limited to Infy,wipro,satyam,TCS etc...The facilities mentioned are common for all these companies...
Infy should concentrate on their quality rather than cheap publicity unlike other Indian companies. I still say that they are acquiring unnecessary lands from the poor farmers all over India building their real estate empire. When top US companies can execute their business within few acres of land, be it in US or India, why can't INFY ? There is no good from INFY to the CITY wherever they are located, as they want to have even grocery store within their campus. This is cheap business. People might say they are generating jobs but every IT company is doing that. Therez nothing special about INFY. Myself working at an US company who is one of the major clients of INFY, I know the quality of service provided by them. Also how they lie to the client giving wrong number of man hours for a particular project, while professionals in India are made to toil day and night.. even during weekends.. Itz pure business.. like any other company... nothing special abt INFY.. their executives are so arrogant that they give media statements saying that as though the CITY in particular or Country in general is surviving because of them... pls keep reading the media statements every few days from these executives.. anyone can come to a conclusion... Having said all these, I would like to say I am not against this company.... infact I was proud of INFY at one time... but recent actions by them is making people lose trust in them... Mr. Azim Premji, Tata, Ambanis, Mittals etc. never make arrogant statements like INFY executives.. They talk about making INFY global and hence recruiting people from all over the world and training them in India(mentioned by Mr. Murthy himself while Mr. Premji was humble enuff in saying they were not).. why can't INFY make the top management global too ?? That clearly shows the double standars of the top management..
RE:RE:My Opinion
by Yogs Bang on Feb 18, 2007 05:05 AM
Infy should concentrate on their quality rather than cheap publicity LIKE other Indian companies.
"Men are different in virtues if any but same when it comes to their vices..." and same holds good for Indian IT companies. There is no doubt that the campuses of IT companies have a very pleasant ambience.Infy is not an exception. Infy in Hyderabad has a swimming pool also. They offer acommodation to employees who are from other cities. But they charge for it and deduct from salaries. Nothing is subsidised so no point in harping about these facilities. Very few Indian IT companies pay for over time or coming over the weekends. IT companies are sweat shops and they need to glamorize in order to appear otherwise.The irony of situation is in India we churn out lot of engineers ( I am among one of them) who are not employable. I am electronics engineer but I can't get a 2000 Rs job as an Electronics Engineer. By the grace of GOD I had IT industry to my rescue and did some language course and managed to get a job. No matter how much I loath the crap that I may have to do but to be honest I am good for nothing else and no one will pay me as much.Once in a while I will get good project but not always and have to compromise on quality of work because IT industry has corrupted us and left us with no option but to do this slavery and get handsome salary. THose who work for Infy , Wipro TCS PCS and crib about low salaries etc should realize that we don't even EARN that much we are just getting coz it is norm of this industry and not because we are so good at work. Sorry for generalizing but this is the truth inmost of the cases. I am writing all this not becuase I am bitter but because I don;t want people to get impressed by companies for wrong reasons.
RE:Indian IT
by ROHIT JAIN on Feb 18, 2007 03:24 AM
A perfect picture. nothing can explain better than this. Simple demand supply india has lots of people hence getting a person on job costs less where as in developed country u might have to pay 50$ to get a car bulb replaced by a man.
In IT we are getting good because of the high demand. once it goes a bit down we will be paid much lesser. Infosys is no exception to this. I agree there are companies who pay less than infy and there are number of companies who are doing much better for employees. So please rediff mention one of such companies dont try to portray infy as the best as it is not.
RE:Indian IT
by immadi kumar on Feb 18, 2007 06:15 AM
Nauman,
I aggree with you 100%. I used to work in one the companies mentioned and I was an Electronics ENgineer too..atlast I had to come out because of the quality of work they offer. I can say, one will be happy to get such salary at first...but one will(any human being) realize that one cannot deceive himself for a long time. Please realize, what matters at the end of day to survice, is the quality of work not the quantity of work you do.
RE:Indian IT
by Confused on Feb 18, 2007 03:58 AM
Well said Nauman. I liked your frankness. When I had chance to visit the Infosys, i felt the most of the employee (IT) were very mediocre.
RE:Indian IT
by Confused on Feb 18, 2007 03:51 AM
Dear Ahmed, You are actual engineer, ability wise. IT engineer is a mismomer, and one can do the job of IT (so called, engineer) if given training for three months (irrespective of the education level) so take proud of yur being electrical engineer (actual engineer) dear Nauman.
Infosys is nothing but media hyped company. Every alternate day there are on news projecting Infosys has a world of itz own. Itz time Infy comes out of itz unrealistic dream world. TCS has overtaken Infy, soon even medium size IT companies will overtake INFY if the executives won't change their attitude. Every alternate day there are on news projecting themselves as the architects of modern India which is completely BULL. TCS, Wipro, Satyam and other companies are doing good if not better than INFY. But we don't see much cheap publicity from these company executives. Infact TCS is much respected company than INFY in US. INFY is turning into real estate business with snatching 1000s of acres of land from poor farmers. When other global companies can executive their business in just few acres, why can't INFY ? Itz time people realise the politics in hyping this company.
RE:Media hyped company
by on Feb 18, 2007 12:03 PM
Yogs, I am not sure how much TCS is respected in US for its quality of delivery. TCS operates in body shopping mode if required and clients take advantage of the fact that TCS can be bent to accept their terms and conditions. The employees specially juniors suffer because of the way projects are executed. Because of tough deadlines they are made to work 12 hours a day and even on weekends... But people do not protest because getting a poor yearend feedback from their superiors...
RE:Media hyped company
by prashant verma on Feb 18, 2007 05:21 AM
sorry dear friend you are totally wrong or may be didnt get through in Infosys. any ways try again may be this time they might give you an offer as because of thev recent hiring spree they have compromised on the quality
RE:Media hyped company
by on Feb 18, 2007 01:39 AM
I am not sure why any media article about Infy or any other world-class organization attracts so much jealousy, envy and anger. I believe most of these articles are from those who don't know Infy or IT industry, and also disgruntled current or ex-employees.
People say Infy doesn't develop products or research, but Infy is not a products company. It's like saying Microsoft hasn't developed any good cars and hence they are not a good company. Secondly, people say Infy is paying media to publish articles. While every company will and should have a Branding strategy, media usually publishes what readers want to read. I would like to point out another factual error where you've mentioned that TCS has overtaken Infy. TCS has always been bigger than Infy, and a company much older and larger than Infy. The most ridiculous part is how much real estate Infy has vis-a-vis other companies. The land has been acquired for future expansion, and can anyone quote a single example where Infy has sold real estate and made money. Infy business model is sound enough that real estate investment need not be a source of revenues.
If you don't like Infy, don't care about what is being published rather than wasting everyone's time.
RE:RE:Media hyped company
by ROHIT JAIN on Feb 18, 2007 03:07 AM
Our only issue is it is getting published every second day. If every one understands this article is part of branding strategy I have no issues with it. But I would expect good news agencies to put a note under such articles. I will further agree to the point a single company should not be given so much land. There are numerous companies in country and looking at 1 billion population they should be given land which they need. What is the need of golf courses. no employee plays golf in infy. Moreover such wastage of land is hyped in such articles.
RE:RE:Media hyped company
by Joy Vyloppully on Feb 19, 2007 01:57 AM
"People say Infy doesn't develop products or research, but Infy is not a products company. It's like saying Microsoft hasn't developed any good cars and hence they are not a good company. "
Hahahaa!!...What a crappy analogy....I suppose you work at Infy.
RE:RE:RE:Media hyped company
by Nan on Feb 19, 2007 08:24 AM
Joy, I'm not the guy who wrote this analogy but I found funny that the only thing you've stated is a personal attack on whether the person works for Infy. If you dont like the argument, contest the matter with content. I wonder whether folks like you make personal references because you cant think of valid arguments. Need to mature on how to communicate in these forums.
Does infosys gives money to indiatimes post such articles every second day? The article is complete bull shit. I am almost sure these articles are no more than ads by infosys which it uses to create market hype. There are numerous other software companies which takes 10 times better care of employees. The reality is Infosys has highest attrition rate in major players and is going up daily. Employees have to work more than 10-11 hrs at average . And after all this they are paying far less than market standards. They even try to cheat by showing more salary as variable which one never get 100%. I request indiatimes to please stop posting such articles in future.
RE:Does infosys gives money to indiatimes post such articles every second day
by ROHIT JAIN on Feb 18, 2007 12:29 AM
I meant indiatimes and rediff both in my message.
RE:Does infosys gives money to indiatimes post such articles every second day
by on Feb 18, 2007 01:45 AM
Infy attrition rate is not the highest, and read your facts carefully. When neutral third party organizations like Hewitt rate Infy consistently among the best employers in India, they are not being foolish. I've not been an Infy employee, but I know IT enough to know that if employees work 10-11 hours average that's because they are being unproductive and inefficient. I've hard that Infy pays 25-30k for a 21 year-old engineer straight out of college, and if that is not good enough then no company deserves employees with such unreasonable expectations.
RE:RE:Does infosys gives money to indiatimes post such articles every second day
by ROHIT JAIN on Feb 18, 2007 02:49 AM
Sir, I have not said it is highest, Infosys attrition rate is currently at 14% (of 60K employees) whereas tcs and wipro both have attrition in single digit.
Infy is a good company for starting the career as probably getting into infy is easiest. The attrition of infy starts at 2 year level and as currently max. % of infy is under 2 yr experience Infy's attrition seems low because of that and will increase rapidly in coming years.
On pay package I can not say what amount is big. Basically it depends on overall market. Infy is paying much lesser than one can get outside. even I was offered double of my current salary once but no one likes to change company easily. so people tend to stay in companies for longer period but if the same people have worked in some other companies they must have had greater job satisfaction and all.
and as I am working in Infosys I know more about efficiency than you all. when I say 10-11 hrs it is for all (there will be hardly any exception) and generally excellent people end up working 13-14 hrs a day because managers will try to please client more using them.
RE:RE:RE:Does infosys gives money to indiatimes post such articles every second day
by Batra on Feb 18, 2007 03:27 PM
Don't give crap sitting here Mr. What makes you say that Infy has higher attrition rate? BULL.... Wipro has 18% Attrition and unfortumately I'm gonna add to that. TCS suffers with 14% of attrition when industry average is 9-10% (Economic Times). Don't sit here and produce crap buddy. The problem of ppl like you is that when Infy makes it big, u guys feel jealous. I can never work in Infy (my grads
RE:RE:RE:Does infosys gives money to indiatimes post such articles every second day
by ROHIT JAIN on Feb 18, 2007 02:58 AM
more on package part, Infy is paying least one can pay to maintain a company like it even lesser than that. If given an option they will be first to reduce it further. Even they are doing that in a way by keeping salaries stable at each level whereas it must increase to cover inflation. I have no issues with how infosys is working to earn profit. every guy has option of changing job he doent like working. My only point is to stop all this drama and news groups like indiatimes and rediff should give reality and should not work like puppet to show the false image. This might misguide other employees as well.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Does infosys gives money to indiatimes post such articles every second day
by on Feb 18, 2007 11:56 AM
Rohit, Don't get upset about INFY. The salary package, nature of work (12 HRS a Day) are all MASTERED and established by TCS, the so called Big Daddy of IT industry. It seems once most respected INFY has now started following the TCS model. I am not aware of the working model of Wipro/Satyam. I am not sure of the correctness of the low attrition figure of TCS. It may be due to the fact that TCS recruits people (fresh and lateral recruits) without a stringent and thorough selection process. The recruitment are also not need based since they build their pipeline (read benched employees) as long as they want to.
In TCS you may have a so called secured job but can NEVER GROW unless you have a GODFATHER (read Project Manager), who will BLESS you as and when required. About working hours, I think nowadays almost all Indian IT companies make employees work for 10-12 hours a day. Let Us accept this as an Indian IT Professional regardless of how much you love your INFY/WIPRO/SATYAM/TCS.... It is a matter of analysis - which company among these shares its profits for employee benefits. I believe one senior emloyee from each of these companies can pitch in to give us a relative view of their policies.
Again about low wages and working hours - TCS has contributed in spreading this culture of working till late hours in the office, building a culture of nepotism/sycophancy so that the junior employees are forced to butter the senior guys. It is possible to hide in TCS for several years without significant contributions and still get promoted every third year. If one has right connections he can get promoted even earlier. Because TCS employees are present in all major Indian IT companies, the TCS culture has is taking root.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Does infosys gives money to indiatimes post such articles every second day
by Madhu Dua on Feb 18, 2007 02:21 PM
Actually all this conversation just reminds me of a statement by Mr. NRN, the gist of which was somewhere along these lines: "Infosys makes sure there is a work-life balance and no person, unless there is a pressing cause, is allowed to work more than the normal 8 hours, or over the weekend". I had a hearty laugh after reading this comment, since it is just another instance how removed the upper management is from what the ground realities are.
Those of you who disregard India's contributions in RnD, its a wake up call for them. Our time has come and we are coming hard at you. We would overtake you in next 10-15 years in RnD as well. Infy has put India strongly on a global map in IT Services industry. BTW, I have worked with these so called experts from biggies like IBM, and I would not like to comment on their skills.
RE:Proud to be an Infoscion
by Confused on Feb 18, 2007 03:55 AM
Kindly dont get confused with RnD you mean R&D? and IT engineering. R&D is differeent then IT, ITs are nothing more then the line man.
