If you hate IITs and IITans, better destroy IITs rather than demean the standard of education.
Why don't you rename IIT to REC, since every state is going to have a IIT now? Its a simple thing even a fool will understand. You just want to play on the brand "IIT" which was flourished by the hardwork of the alumni for last six decades.
Government has funded a lot of institutions since independence, but count and see how many of them are world-class ? Its the alumni which matters the most, not the funding.
Re: Just remove govt funding
by Poor IT Engineer on Jun 11, 2012 05:09 PM
Even the Governement knows, they can survive without their peanut funding. All IITs are generating funds through through industry sponsored research projects. They will do even more when government pulls out.
Re: Re: Just remove govt funding
by Kiran on Jun 11, 2012 05:13 PM
those projects are meant for filling up personal cffers. hardly any patents come out for mthose "resercc" projects.
Re: Re: Re: Just remove govt funding
by Poor IT Engineer on Jun 11, 2012 05:30 PM
Why do you need patents, till you are serving the purpose? And the purpose to get money from sponsors, who will evaluate the work.
Anyways, the financial channel is existing and could be utilized better when needed.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Just remove govt funding
by Kiran on Jun 11, 2012 05:44 PM
patents are just one of the many paramaters to evaluate the research output. There are of course other parameters too. Published work in quality journals and of course contribution to indigenous technology that will make this nation stand on its own feet and ease the misery of the life of a common man. Sponsored research is not just about executing some canned engineering tools. Of course these tools are also not developed in house.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Just remove govt funding
by Poor IT Engineer on Jun 11, 2012 05:55 PM
IITs were never perceieved to be premier research institutes. Never did IIT executive management lay emphasis on PhD programmes. Most IITans went abroad to seek higher studies after graduation.
Only some companies, like IBM set up research LABS, which had annual intake of 5. Where would the rest go?
This is the shortcoming of the executive management which is government appointed.
Suddenly, without doing any ground work, you are expecting Stars in your bag.
Whatever research output is coming out, one should feel lucky. IITs didn't become famous because of research output, but because of alumni contribution to society.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Just remove govt funding
by Kiran on Jun 11, 2012 06:02 PM
IF the alumin is contributing to the society in a different way (financial), yes, then we should feel happy. A survey that includes people from the lower economic strats in the scoiety would be useful to gauge this contribution.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Just remove govt funding
by Kiran on Jun 11, 2012 06:04 PM
The insitutes with technology tags in theri names in the States (MIT, CALtech) are premier research insitutes.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Just remove govt funding
by Poor IT Engineer on Jun 11, 2012 06:14 PM
The Tags don't say it all. It must be the management which needs to have a focus.
MIT, CALTech, all are happily recruiting IITan for Post Graduation Courses. So, the problem with IITs exists; not in the entrance examination but in the focus of the executive management.
After changing to common entrance test, how will the research output go high? We must redefine the focus of these institutes rather than beating the bush.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Just remove govt funding
by Kiran on Jun 11, 2012 06:26 PM
The dscssuion has digressed from what the iits should be actually famous for
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Just remove govt funding
by Kiran on Jun 11, 2012 06:48 PM
And it was not about the alumni and test takers. IT was about the people at IIT who do sponsored "research" funded by the Industry.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Just remove govt funding
by Poor IT Engineer on Jun 11, 2012 06:51 PM
It was about the process of generating money through the sponsored projects and its potential to help in self-sustenance without government funding .
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Just remove govt funding
by Kiran on Jun 12, 2012 10:03 AM
a greedy few will man the self sustaining "research projects" and then there will be no one left to handlke the test takers in the classrooms. They guys will still need saliries from the govt stipulated by pay commissions etc. These are facts based on ground reality.
Re: Re: Just remove govt funding
by Mr Infinity on Jun 11, 2012 05:25 PM
wait a sec. RESEARCH projects? what do they do in there? re search the lost documents for companies?
Quality of IITs degraded long time back. What they have now is just a machine that produces bunch of non-innovative, self-obsessed bureaucratic minded smarty pants who can't do any better than guys coming out of any other well recognized college in India.
They can't even stand in world class top colleges list! Why to waste money on them? If all we want to create engineers with service oriented mentality then other colleges do that already.
Re: Re: Re: Just remove govt funding
by Poor IT Engineer on Jun 11, 2012 05:39 PM
That's what is Kapil Sibal is doing. He wants to bring the quality of IIT students on par of other engineering colleges.
IITans are engineers, not scientists!! and service is synchronous with engineering.
But those who aren't IITan, tend to expect everything from IITans.
IITs are famous not because of their curriculum or infrastructure, but only because of student quality.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Just remove govt funding
by Kiran on Jun 11, 2012 05:47 PM
Yes, IITians need not scientists. They are enineers. Scientists discover while Engineers invent.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Just remove govt funding
by Poor IT Engineer on Jun 11, 2012 06:02 PM
Scientists explore science, and Engineers apply science. Application will happen when someone requires your service. So Engineering and Service are synonymus.
IISc, St. Stephens, Presidency, so many colleges are producing so many scientists and their purpose is only to explore science!! what's their contribution to research?
They also get Govt funds, but only difference - their brand is yet not recognized so much in US.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Just remove govt funding
by Mr Infinity on Jun 11, 2012 06:11 PM
Get the list of World class engineering colleges and find IIT there. I am not talking about being scientist or inventor. I am talking about attitude that these IITs and IITeans have. Frogs of pond thinking they are a big bull. :)
non-IITeans at least know what they are. IITs are counting them much more than what they are.
and Sibbal don't need to do anything to get IIT to downgraded. :)
Plus, yes IITs are famous because of their students. Exactly!!! That's what I wrote in my previous response!!! Bunch of self-obsessed smarty pants who are no better than other people working around them when it comes to applying knowledge!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Just remove govt funding
by Poor IT Engineer on Jun 11, 2012 06:33 PM
Come to US, try for an IT job and you will know the value of IIT degree :). They are certainly the lions of jungle who get respected.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Just remove govt funding
by Mr Infinity on Jun 11, 2012 07:24 PM
heheheh... I am not from IIT and I work at US. I hope that makes things clear for you.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Just remove govt funding
by Mr Infinity on Jun 11, 2012 07:28 PM
I don't need to have any personal agenda against IIT. I am successful enough as I wanted to be. I work at a good US based MNC and love my job. :)
btw, you still did not answer my question. Found the world rankings for colleges? ;)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Just remove govt funding
by Kiran on Jun 12, 2012 10:05 AM
He doesn't kneow the difference between an Engineer and a Scientist. In his opinions enfginewers only offer service and don't need ot do research.
It appears that HRD ministry has a specific agenda to push through the change as quickly as possible. For them earliest is to implement from 2013. Mr Sibal is adamant because 2014 is the election year and the entire party will be busy in electoral processess. They may miss the chance if not implemented in 2013. It makes no differences, whether 5 to 6 lac students preparing for 2013 JEE suffer
Re: Why from 2013?
by Zeng on Jun 11, 2012 03:41 PM
What is there in new format that can not be done on nearly one year? In any other part of the world, one month would be good enough.
Lord Macaulay’s Address to the British Parliament 2nd February 1835
“I have travelled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a begger, who is a thief. Such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such caliber, that I do not think we would ever counquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and therefore, I propose that we replace her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will loose their self esteem, their native culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation. ”
Probably Macaulay (an english) understood more , the strength and power of Indian culture , education and heritage more than most Indians do today. We had a very high educational system which was mingled with moral and cultural values in the past. Still our regional boards i mean state board education system is very good and produces high nos. of IAS and other civil servants for the country whereas CBSe, ICSE and other hyped boards are not up to the mark when it comes in competitive exams. Grading systems will further destroy it. Kapil Sibbal Globalist Agent is trying to impose their agenda. In the west the same grading education system has made the generation dumb.
Re: KAPIL SIBBAL IS DANGEROUS
by Ujwala Kulkarni on Jun 11, 2012 03:43 PM
You can't fool all of the people all of the time. IITs' poor performance is catching up with them. Time has come for them to show WHAT THEY HAVE DONE in return for the resources this poor country has provided them. THIS HOLIER THAN THOU ATTITUDE WILL NOT DO THEM ANY GOOD.
Re: Re: KAPIL SIBBAL IS DANGEROUS
by So Flam on Jun 11, 2012 03:58 PM
resources have been provided to one and all the colleges including the greatone/dumbone that you went to as well. Secondly who will judge what IIT's have done ... you?? or your college head ??
Re: Re: Re: KAPIL SIBBAL IS DANGEROUS
by kuttichathan mydear on Jun 11, 2012 05:38 PM
Judgeing the IITs quality does not need any rocket science. IITs charter is to provide technical excellence to the tax-payer.. Most IIT grads do not even move on to masters, Phds in other IITs.. and thier contributiosn to Indias technical needs is dismal. IIT has become a Govt. of India subsidized club for test-taking junkies that become mid-manger MBAs in multi-national companies.. time to try a new format.
Re: KAPIL SIBBAL IS DANGEROUS
by Zeng on Jun 11, 2012 03:50 PM
That is fake. There is no such speech and Macaulay made no speech in British Parliament in 1835. Only such lies are the arguments against revolutionary and practical changes proposed. Only a BJP man can make such lies.
Lord Macaulay’s Address to the British Parliament 2nd February 1835
“I have travelled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a begger, who is a thief. Such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such caliber, that I do not think we would ever counquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and therefore, I propose that we replace her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will loose their self esteem, their native culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation. ”
Probably Macaulay (an english) understood more , the strength and power of Indian culture , education and heritage more than most Indians do today. We had a very high educational system which was mingled with moral and cultural values in the past. Still our regional boards i mean state board education system is very good and produces high nos. of IAS and other civil servants for the country whereas CBSe, ICSE and other hyped boards are not up to the mark when it comes in competitive exams. Grading systems will further destroy it. Kapil Sibbal Globalist Agent is trying to impose their agenda. In the west the same grading education system has made the generation dumb.
They should hang their head in shame instead of showing defiance of Govt. orders. The govt that accorded them special status through an act of the parliament has the right to clip their wings too. What have the IITs done to date to justify the status accorded to them? They have only soaked up funds without any tangible output. IITs are not merely educational institute and can't ride PIGGYBACK on the success achieved by their students after further education in US universities. What are they? Body shoppers for US univs? If so, they are the most expensive body shoppers around. IITs esp the faculty should stop taking pride in being just BRANDING IRONS and try to do some worthwhile R&D WITHIN THE COUNTRY.
IS OF NO VALUE. as our former president said, life without religion makes you stone heartless money seeking zombie, that's why religious education should be given a top priority.
Re: IIT education without a semster on religious education
by Shakeel Abbas on Jun 11, 2012 03:28 PM
You are right. That's why madrassa education is better than IIT education.
