Congratulations on your honest try. You look naive or innocent to conceive this business idea.
I'm a supplier of tshirts to GAP, Tommy Hilfiger, Pure Baby and more. Believe me, if you have no experience on field and are relying on suppliers, certifications of Organic Cotton and Fair Trade doesn't make sense. There is lot of hypocrisy in this business.
For example, your turquoise blue & black tshirts, featured in this article, generate loads of pollution, whose effluent are almost impossible to treat, irrespective of the certifications the dyes & chemicals carry. Such colors are getting colored in dyeing mills, where effluent is discharged unchecked. If you ask your dyer he will show some certificates. It's all crap. Many dyeing factories in Tirupur (Tshirt's capital of India) with Okeotex/Gots/IMO certificates are closed for pollution by High Court. Also, the remaining dyeing factories do not dye turquoise or black like any other color. For your information, White tshirts with Optical Brighteners cause pollution dyeing processing.
Frankly speaking, the developed countries will keep inventing certifications to promote their new found technologies. In textile business, you either talk business or environment. If you talk both, in my opinion, either you are ignorant or hypocrite.
Re: Honest, but Innocent Man - Apurva Kothari
by Apurva Kothari on Aug 12, 2011 02:21 AM
wow - strong words Jay! easy there:)
so our goal is to make more companies be sustainable on both the environment & the business front (and the social front too!). it's not easy but it's been done successfully and repeatedly- you have to make the effort to do it and find the right people to do it with. yes, we are probably naive if we only go by the certificates our suppliers show us, and we'll be conscious of that - thanks for the heads up.
and yes, the ideal scenario would be to only use natural herbal dyes and that is the exact path we started on when we began. however, these are not ready for mass market just yet - the colours don't last, they are not washing machine friendly, etc. the next best alternative is to use azo-free, non-toxic dyes like the ones we do. that choice allows us to cater to a larger market and take this movement forward with a lot more people. for now, it's a question of taking 5 steps forward with 1000 people or taking 2 steps forward with a million people.
we also visited tirupur and were not happy with what we say, so we decided to not work with the factories we saw there. it took us a while to decide our supply chain, and we're quite happy with the people we work with. if nothing else, their values are right - they are not in it for the money and are genuinely trying to make a difference.
as you're a supplier to eco-friendly brands yourself, i urge you to educate your customers & help fight the hypocrisy you mention.
Re: Honest, but Innocent Man - Apurva Kothari
by Apurva Kothari on Aug 12, 2011 02:22 AM
wow - strong words Jay! easy there:)
so our goal is to make more companies be sustainable on both the environment & the business front (and the social front too!). it's not easy but it's been done successfully and repeatedly- you have to make the effort to do it and find the right people to do it with. yes, we are probably naive if we only go by the certificates our suppliers show us, and we'll be conscious of that - thanks for the heads up.
and yes, the ideal scenario would be to only use natural herbal dyes and that is the exact path we started on when we began. however, these are not ready for mass market just yet - the colours don't last, they are not washing machine friendly, etc. the next best alternative is to use azo-free, non-toxic dyes like the ones we do. that choice allows us to cater to a larger market and take this movement forward with a lot more people. for now, it's a question of taking 5 steps forward with 1000 people or taking 2 steps forward with a million people.
we also visited tirupur and were not happy with what we say, so we decided to not work with the factories we saw there. it took us a while to decide our supply chain, and we're quite happy with the people we work with. if nothing else, their values are right - they are not in it for the money and are genuinely trying to make a difference.
as you're a supplier to eco-friendly brands yourself, i urge you to educate your customers & help fight the hypocrisy you mention.
Re: Re: Honest, but Innocent Man - Apurva Kothari
by Jay on Aug 12, 2011 01:46 PM
Sorry, if I offended you. I was trying to be blunt but definitely not harsh.
I honestly appreciate your efforts. All I'm saying is it's not as simple or even possible to achieve what you aspire for.
I employ more than 1000 people. Being socially responsible is relatively practical than being environmentally responsible.
FYI, Tirupur has invested more than Rs.1500 crores in Effluent Treatment. Because of the legal action by downstream farmers, the regulations are stricter (Zero Discharge) than any other textile producing countries. If your dyer is elsewhere, I'm sure they are nowhere near Tirupur in terms of Effluent Treatment. If they are in Gujarat, Govt. doesn't care much about pollution. If they are in Ludhiana/ Calcutta, they have perennial rivers to dilute into. If they still claim pollution-free, I can take it as a challenge to prove they are not. Be it be Alok, Arvind or Birla, it's the same story.
Azo-free dyes are in use in Tirupur since 1990s. European dye manufacturers periodically come up with these ploys once they find a new formulation. If you think the dyes used now are safe, wait for a decade and the same manufacturers will prove you wrong.
I also own a 8ton fabric/day dyeing factory and I've M.S (Textiles). I wonder if there is any "non-toxic dyes" in existance.
If you want to look clean, outsource and talk smart, like most western brands! There is not much sustainable products in western lifestyle (unnatural -colored products, definitely not)
Re: Re: Re: Honest, but Innocent Man - Apurva Kothari
by Apurva Kothari on Aug 17, 2011 11:14 AM
wow - you definitely to be in a very good position to make a real difference in this industry.
I hope you're making all the efforts to do the right things, and not just limiting yourself to offering advice on these boards.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Honest, but Innocent Man - Apurva Kothari
by Jay on Aug 17, 2011 08:49 PM
All I can do being a tshirt manufacturer is "Pollute as Less as Possible".
Re: Re: Re: Re: Honest, but Innocent Man - Apurva Kothari
by Jay on Aug 17, 2011 08:51 PM
All I can do being a tshirt manufacturer is "Pollute as Less as Possible"
Re: Re: Re: Re: Honest, but Innocent Man - Apurva Kothari
by Jay on Aug 17, 2011 08:56 PM
All I can do being a tshirt manufacturer is "Pollute as Less as Possible"... claiming Zero Pollution will be absurd. Even Zero Liquid Discharge in Tirupur, which is stringent than any other norm in the textile world, results in solid waste.
Our dyeing machines consume within 50 litres of water for 1 kg of fabric, which is half the industry standard.
Hi. firstly congratulations for the wonderful initiative! i had one question: do u even produce just the raw grey cotton besides the tees? as in wud u supply just the grey fabric to anybody?
Am actually from a IT cum management background with a similar kind of vision of you. Its indeed a really good initiative to think something differently and work towards self as well as helping the poor farmers to a certain extent.Can we know where exactly have you started the production now..I can definitely help towards a good cause.Good work Apurva
Re: Re: Re: Good Initiative
by Apurva Kothari on Aug 17, 2011 11:18 AM
we've already made the final tees and have been in business for a few months now. the factory i mentioned in the article has been around for a while, and you can approach them yourself as well if you want to get into this line of work.
God bless you. Your deed has really inspired me to start something on the sustainability front. May be organic fertilizer company or Organic dyes for your company t-shirts.
Re: Very Inspiring
by Apurva Kothari on Aug 11, 2011 11:45 AM
Thanks Pranam. There are a lot of opportunities out there - happy to connect with you and discuss ideas. Cheers, apurva
Almost all alternative products for a good cause are usually priced high, have limited and scattered availability and do not succeed and serve the purpose for which they were meant. A good cause can not be the marketing mantra and limited to a few who can afford the products but should become a viable choice for anyone who wants the product over others available in the market.
Re: Pricing
by Apurva Kothari on Aug 11, 2011 11:50 AM
Good points Jayesh - thanks. Yes, the price is usually higher for such products because the industry hasn't got the economies of scale - yet! The volumes are very low and that drives up the costs, unfortunately. Plus, there are costs for certification. We would love for the products to be an affordable choice for everyone who wants them - hope we can get there someday. For now, it's a balance between finding the right market price point and sustaining our business.
Regarding availability, our products can be purchased from anywhere via our website - hope that helps.
