Nadal is no. 1 without having a single point from Wimbledon. Even if Federer were to defend his Wimbledon crown (A highly unlikely event), by beating Nadal in the final, Nadal will have gained 1200 points from Wimbledon, extending the lead to about 1600 points over Federer. Federer, in order to reclaim the no. 1 spot this year, will have to (a) win US Open, with Nadal not being able to go beyond SF, and (b) win at least 2 of the Hardcourt tournamnents preceding the US Open, and (c) Win the year ending London Masters. Is he going to do it?
Re: aishwarya patil
by VASUDEVAN V on Jun 08, 2010 01:35 PM
Good mathematics Patilji. In Tennis it is more difficult to retain your position on the top once you reach there. Federer did it from 2004 to 2007 and again in 2009. Federer is in a difficult position because he reached all the four grandslam finals and won two of them last year. Lots of points to defend and pushing 29, it was always going to be difficult. Nadal has nothing to defend after last year's French Open and everyone knew that if Nadal wins, he gets points. Nadal cleaned out the clay court season and gained lot of points by winning Madrid and French Open (the other two he had won last year also). Federer is on a downslide since Australian Open and none in between Nadal and Federer has taken advantage, allowing Nadal to climb back to the top, thanks again to the Clay court season. Irrespective of whether Federer defends his title or not at Wimbledon (you appear to be very confident that Fedex will not and I am very confident that it will not be Nadal, may be it will be someone like Roddick or even Murray, who knows!) Nadal will only gain. As far as Federer is concerned, he may not get back the no.1 position at all, but Nadal has lot of points to defend next year and hopefully some youngster will start asking questions just as Nadal did to Federer when Fedex was around 25! But, still do not undermine Fedex, who is greater than Nadal as of today overall and Nadal greater than Federer on Clay only!
Re: Re: aishwarya patil
by aishwarya patil on Jun 09, 2010 08:19 PM
You should but make correction. Nadal is miles ahead of Federer on clay, and Federer is marginally better on other surfaces.
Re: Re: aishwarya patil
by aishwarya patil on Jun 09, 2010 12:32 PM
Well, Well Professor Vasudevan! Reading our posts, one can hardly guess we are discussing the same topic! I have failed to understand how defending points is tougher than acquiring them. One just has to win, and keep winning, to do either. Have a nice time. We shall pick up the fight once again in the second week of Wimbledon.
Re: Re: aishwarya patil
by aishwarya patil on Jun 09, 2010 08:12 PM
If you think he cannot ever regain the no. 1 spot, you are grossly underestimating Federer. A know-all like you, should not read too much into just one bad clay court season for your hero. This season was really special in that it was very damp and heavy. Roger Federer was caught unawares in Rome, Madrid, and also in Paris. He was just not prepared well enough to counter the new conditions. I believe Federer does have the capacity to bounce back, and do all that I have mentioned in my original post. I hope he does. Good bye Professor. We shall meet again in the second week of Wimbledon. And by the way, are you not interested in Soccer? Which team would you put your money on this Wold Cup? I am for Argentina.
Re: Who is better?
by Sagar Mulay on Jun 08, 2010 10:35 AM
I dont remember Nadal ever claiming he is better than Federer, although he is. Nadal will probably retire with 12-13 GS including some on Hard and Grass and a dominant record against Federer, his form and surface not withstanding. Then we will discuss who's the best. I hope you wont change your emailid by then.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Who is better?
by Anurag Rathore on Jun 08, 2010 11:02 AM
I am still on my words. I said Nadal has injury prone game which has proven last year. Even it may happen many times in future too. I also said after injury he may win only French Open which he did. His real strength will show on Wimbledon. I am not claiming Federer will win it but sure that Nadal won't.
Re: Who is better?
by aishwarya patil on Jun 08, 2010 10:52 AM
If Nadal says Federer is better than him, then even he doesn't know anything about Tennis, except playing the game. When we are talking in present tense, and are not comparing the exploits of Nadal with those of Federer, Nadal has to be adjudged better than Federer. Anybody who thinks otherwise, is just trying to show his/her knowledge of Arithmetic. Everybody knows that 16>7. If Federer is now able to reclain the title for a third time, then perhaps there wouldn't be any doubt about his being the greatest of all time, but till that happens, doubts will persist.
Re: Re: Who is better?
by Anurag Rathore on Jun 08, 2010 11:12 AM
Saying Nadal doesn't know anything about Tennis is just an excuse and ignore the reality. Not only Rafa even Sampras, Aggasi like genious think so.
Re: Re: Who is better?
by VASUDEVAN V on Jun 08, 2010 11:08 AM
Patilji: Your maths knowledge is really good, yes 16>7. But, why talk about greatness only in the present tense. When you talk of greatness, it has to be overall. That is why you say Pele and Maradona are great, Woods is the greatest, Sampras, Borg etc. are great and of course, Federer has reached that level of greatness. Nadal has certainly reached that level of greatness on clay and his present form is on clay where he has always been greater than Federer. This means, Nadal has nothing more to prove on Clay and Federer has nothing more to prove overall. Federer is the greatest as of now (without taking future into consideration, but including the past) and Nadal is the best on clay (Borg still has 6 French Open to Nadal's 5) and there is no need for Federer to regain the no.1 spot to prove he is the greatest! After all Federer is just one month shy of 29 whereas all his opponents, including Nadal, are in the prime of youth. If Federer still continues to win, that only endorses his greatness that he still continues to beat those in the prime of youth. In tennis, 29 is certainly old in modern times!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Who is better?
by VASUDEVAN V on Jun 08, 2010 12:20 PM
It has not just started Patilji. Nadal is playing on the other surfaces also since 2005 and has won just two of them till date. Hope Nadal also has the patience, the stamina and the fitness in future to do on the other surfaces in future what he is doing on Clay since 2005!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who is better?
by VASUDEVAN V on Jun 08, 2010 01:38 PM
Melby: Very interesting statistics. But the telling figure is the 10-2 H2H on clay which naturally skews all the other figures. The fact is, Nadal is greater than Fedex on clay and every Fedex fan worth his salt accepts this simple fact. But, overall Fedex is miles ahead as of Nadal today. What the future holds only Nadal and his body knows. All the best to all Nadal fans!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who is better?
by melby augustine on Jun 08, 2010 12:45 PM
Head-to-head tallies The following is a breakdown of their head-to-head results:[9]
All Matches: Nadal 14-7 All Finals: Nadal 12–5 Grand Slams: Nadal 6–2 Grand Slam Finals: Nadal 5–2 Best of 5 sets: Nadal 8-3 Masters Cup: Federer 2–0 Masters Series: Nadal 7–3 Masters Series Finals: Nadal 6–3 Results on each court surface Clay courts: Nadal 10–2 (Best of 5: Nadal 6-0) Hard courts: 3–3 Grass courts: Federer 2–1
I dont really believe that fedex can be considered as the grtest tennis player, see its very debatable look grass and clay are the only surface whr tennis talent can be judged. US and Aus open are hard court just like these days flat cricket pitches in subcontinent, u just hav to hit through the line. fedex is a champion in grass Nadal is the king of clay court. plus thr r 2 grandslams of the same nature and in both fedex has scored big so numberwise fedex might b ahead but his complete avg performance on clay just takes the shine..if nadal can win couple more wimbledon and a US open in next one/2 yrs or so...i believe he can replace fedex.
Re: Fedex or Rafa?
by VASUDEVAN V on Jun 08, 2010 09:59 AM
Average performance on clay of Fedex, Aryan? Indeed tennis needs people like you with half-baked knowledge of the game. The fact is, there are only four players who have reached four consecutive finals at French Open and one of them is Fedex along with Nadal and the immortal Borg (the fourth....?). All those who talk of Nadal whenever Fedex loses, should remember the following simple facts: 1. Federer holds the record for winning 25 consecutive finals that he entered before losing a final. 2. His 23 consecutive Semis in Grandslams will certainly stand the test of time, as the next best is 10 of Lendl! 3. Perhaps even the no. of times that he has reached the finals in Grandslams (22, if I am not wrong), may never be equalled. 4. Even as Nadal dominated on Clay with 5 grandslam titles (his other two titles are one on grass and one at rebound ace), Federer has completely dominated the other three winning 6 wimbledon, 5 US Open, 4 Australian open, besides a French during the same period. 5. The world likes underdogs and Nadal is an underdog who works hard and makes the people feel for him. When Nadal works hard and wins, the ordinary mortals feel for him and decide that he is the greatest. Fedex makes tennis look so easy because he is gifted and it appears like he never loses sweat while winning! That is why the greatness of Fedex is perhaps never appreciated. Nadal is the commoner to Fedex King, Nadal is the David to Fedex Goliath!
Re: Re: Fedex or Rafa?
by Aryan on Jun 08, 2010 10:29 AM
y r u getting emotional unnecessarily Vasu just like fedex...did i tell fedex is not a grt8 player i said he has not done wel in clay, clay is not all abt french open thr r 4 others in the calender yr..which r all held by Nadal this yr..5US and 4Aus which accounts for 9 of them imagine 2 grandslams on clay nadal wud b more than 10 grandslams at the age of only 24... if u call nadal a underdog fedex will laugh at u...remember tis is the only guy who made fedex cry infront of the world...and do u knw wat it means he had nightmares of nadal during that period...jus imagine if nadal hadnt gone thru those injuries and emotional trauma last yr..
Re: Re: Re: Fedex or Rafa?
by VASUDEVAN V on Jun 08, 2010 10:47 AM
Well Aryan, I may be emotional like Fedex and you may be stoic like Nadal, but your half baked knowledge is again exposed. Remember, Nadal is considered a clay court specialist and it is proved in his 27 of 39 titles coming on Clay and 12 of 18 Masters coming on Clay. In fact, maximum no. of Masters are held on Clay as opposed to other different types of surfaces. The deco, rebound ace etc. are different in nature. History shows there have been occasions when clay court specialists have adapted to Grass and other artificial surfaces (Borg, Nadal, Lendl are some of the names that come to mind), whereas seldom does champions on other surfaces succeed on clay court. Thus, great champions like Sampras, Becker, Edberg do not even have a French open win and only Edberg among the three has reached French Open finals. Clay is the least favourite surface of Fedex and any fan with knowledge of tennis knows this fact. Looked at in this perspective, the achievement of Fedex on French clay is outstanding and as Agassi put it, but for a freak called Nadal, Fedex would even have a calendar grandslam! The greatness of an athlete is not only about winning, but also about staying fit knowing the limits of his body. Fedex has managed his body better than Nadal and it is no fault of Fedex if Nadal gets injured! Lastly, Fedex did also have his share of injuries and trauma during 2008 and early part of 2009 seasons, but he was still good enough to win grandslams. That shows his greatness!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Fedex or Rafa?
by VASUDEVAN V on Jun 08, 2010 10:49 AM
in the above post read: ...least favourite surface of Fedex and record of Fedex on French....
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fedex or Rafa?
by r subramani on Jun 08, 2010 03:57 PM
Hello Mr.Vasudevan (Full-Baked Knowledgewala !)..I being a Rafa fan and even Fedx (will be cheering any day, when Rafa is not playing),I feel disgusting/irritating to see the comments from your end..Why can't you accept the success of a great spostman like Rafa?Everybofy knows(All Rafa fans and me too, may be they are emotionally attached if they are not accepting) that Rafa (self-made, hard-worked) can't be compared to Roger(Gifted;feels like God is playing when on full song!).Their playing styles are diametrically opposite to one another.As you said and Aryan as well, Clay and Grass are the two most difficult surfaces to play on. A player has to significantly achieve on all surfaces and between Roger and Rafa, It's Rafa who achieved first (Wimb2008, FO 2008, AO-2009). This doen't make Rafa greater than Roger(the one who says is a fool), but at least repect what this guy has achieved in Roger era(else imagine, what Roger could have achieved, 5 more GS, 10 more titles!).As you said, Fedex's 22 consecutive Semis will stand the test of time definitely.Not only these there are many records of Fedex that may not be possible to beat.Likewise, Nadal has his own yard where there are records which i think will not be broken again. Like, Clay slam,Olymoic gold with Wimb, FO in same year, 18ATP masters at age 24 (Agassi was 33 when he won 17th!), Best winning percentage in open era etc..Thanks! No offense meant
Re: Re: Re: Re: Fedex or Rafa?
by r subramani on Jun 08, 2010 04:02 PM
Wow, a freak to make a comment on Nadal.. Probably the most disgusting reader ever on this forum!
Re: Re: Great Performer
by bhaskar on Jun 08, 2010 03:16 AM
While RAFA is the best on a given day, Roger is the LEGEND, who conquered world tennis . Can RAFA catch up with him ???? Time will have to say
Re: Re: Re: Great Performer
by Abhishek on Jun 08, 2010 08:32 AM
Roger in his prime was unstoppable. Everyone knows that... Given all his 15 grand slams I doubt he himself will care for not winning the french open.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Great Performer
by Sagar Mulay on Jun 08, 2010 10:37 AM
Nadal started his dominance on Roger in 2004 and he has been ahead since. Whether Federer is in his prime or not does not matter when he sees Rafa on the other side.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Great Performer
by Subba Rao on Jun 08, 2010 12:07 PM
Well said Sagar. Vasudevan's full baked knowledge will take a dent at this 100% fact. I really don't understand why people start this controversy as to who is better- when Rafa himself agrees that whatever be the rankings, he is always one spot below Roager! Humility personified!!
