Good article, has some point. However, it is over simplified. Referring only Wikipedia & Wilkinson could be the possible reason for over simplification. There are n number of histories & approaches available which could create a balance
Re: Good article, over simplified
by piri on May 18, 2018 03:16 AM
The only authentic records (if one does not want to go by what the books written by anyone involved say) are the national archives.
And there are long commentaries and reports on the archives (the non classified ones). None of these remotely suggest that the early day generals of the Indian army had any plan to stamp out Pak or China !
Social media has empowered the hardworking , productive class to think logically and systematically... No longer 2 kaudi jounos like sekar gutta and his gang can hoodwink by resorting to cheap technics that are often found in red light areas.....
Two wrong doesnt make a right and all wrong becomes suicidal.Even in hurry bwe should cross check our STATEMENT WITH THE FACTS.MR MODI IS ONLY THE ORATOR BUT HIS SPEECH IS ASSEMBLED BY THE PMO.which lacks credibility and puting the master to embarrasement.
EVEN IF YOU ASK THE FULL NAME OF MAHATMA GANDHI, MOST OF THE POLITICIANS WHO ARE FIGHTING FOR THE SEATS ARE UNABLE TO ANSWER.. THESE POLITICIANS ARE FIGHTING EACH OTHER FOR THEIR POSITION TO MAKE MONEY.
Re: MAHATMA GANDHI
by Satyajeet Singh Yadava on May 14, 2018 05:20 PM
Asking Mahatma's full name is different while invoking late army Commander's name for petty Electoral Political gains is abhorernt?????????
Re: Re: MAHATMA GANDHI
by Rajnath Guru on May 14, 2018 05:59 PM
Act of a buffoon who has resorted to 2 pence (rather 2 kaudi articles) supported by lackeys who say what a pleasant aroma when Chinna men pass gas!!! They have developed a liking for the smell as they are loyal toilet cleaners for Chinna Chamchonist who are themselves .......
2 Kauda Journo has stooped from being Hit and Run to Shoot and Scoot to Spit and Scoot and finally constipated into s..t and scoot before they start eat and scoot...
The beauty about Modi ji's speeches is that howsoever hollow or devoid they may be in terms of content & true facts, they never lack the typical Modi flair. The moral of the story is whatever untruth you may speak, it should be spoken with the kind of confidence where it appears to be true to have a direct connect with the masses. Then, there are hordes of Hindutva admires who would anyway lap it up as gospel truth & spread and multiply the same at speed of naughts in social media loyal to Modi ji. Was Modi ji ever as well read as Nehru ji & his ilk who, his party &, he himself derides for political purposes? If he keeps traveling at speed of naughts, where would he have time to cross check with facts, provided by some mediocre in his facts team ?
Re: Modi
by Rajnath Guru on May 14, 2018 06:02 PM
Social media has empowered the hardworking , productive class to think logically and systematically... No longer 2 kaudi jounos like sekar gutta and his gang can hoodwink by resorting to cheap technics that are often found in res light areas.....
Re: Modi
by P S SHAH on May 14, 2018 09:24 PM
Whatever blunder Nehru committed during China war in 1962 is known to whole world. May be he was busy reading books and perhaps was over confident and inefficient. His defence minister krishna Menon was good only for giving speech atUN for nine hours. Both of them were caught sleeping when Chinese attacked India. Thousands of soldiers fought the war without proper arms, ammunition, gears, under severe weather conditions and lost their precious lives fighting bravely for the nation.
Re: Modi
by P S SHAH on May 14, 2018 09:24 PM
Whatever blunder Nehru committed during China war in 1962 is known to whole world. May be he was busy reading books and perhaps was over confident and inefficient. His defence minister krishna Menon was good only for giving speech atUN for nine hours. Both of them were caught sleeping when Chinese attacked India. Thousands of soldiers fought the war without proper arms, ammunition, gears, under severe weather conditions and lost their precious lives fighting bravely for the nation.
Re: Modi
by biren maur on May 24, 2018 07:06 PM
Its easy to pull Nehru down...Nehru was a politician and it was duty of that day army top brass to show him the truth as Field Marshal Shah did to Ms. Gnadhi during 1971 war and India won a decisive victory. Field Marshal stood his ground.. where were such military leadership then
Dear Shekhar Gupta, that you are a critic of Modi is known. However, to ridicule him, you are forgetting to mention some facts, quote now(by me).Please explain in light of your extensive knowledge of Political/Military History of India(a commoner like me is not supposed to know it) 1)If congress is not to be blamed for existence of POK, why Nehru referred the matter of Kashmir dispute to UNO, when Indian Troops has wrested most of J&K from Pakistani Forces by Summer/Autumn 1948 and were to continue offensive for the remaining J&K by Summer 1949? 2)When Tibet was occupied by Chinese forces in 1950, why India gave up her Postal Rights and a Right to hold a Military Post in Lhasa? 3)Why India did not develop any infrastructure in all the Borders with China, during 1950-1962 period when veteran military men were crying hoarse to do so? 4)Why Lt.General SPP Thorat was superceeded and Lt.General B.M.Kaul was promoted as Chief of General Staff 5)Why Army commanders like B.M.Kaul and General Thapar "took the blame" and the normal soldier, who received all the Chinese Flak are revered by a common man like me? 6)Why when Sam Manekshaw told Indira Gandhi that her political decision to attack Bangla Desh shall have to be deferred led to a decisive Indian victory in 1971? Dear Shekhar Gupta-Common man like me might not be a know all like you, but he is not gullible, foolish and ignorant, you think he is. Finally only people with your thick hide can make fun of Haquegat
Re: Modi's Military History
by Satyajeet Singh Yadava on May 14, 2018 02:10 PM
Mr.Gokhale,your questions to Shekhar Gupta are of no value.The writer is correct that the PM got the facts mixed up!Now if the Political Leadeship only is to be blamed for Various Military debacles throghout Indian History,then the Blame must start with Ashoka,HarshVardhan,PrithiViRaj,Rana Sanga,Akbar,Peshwa BajiRao & pass on to Nehru!!! By the what significant Sri Modiji has achieved Militarily except Using time & again the army for a Votes????????????????
Re: Re: Modi's Military History
by chandra reddy on May 14, 2018 05:37 PM
Madhav questions are very much valid.Because not me but entire country people have similar question which Mr Sekhar Gupta should answers?
Re: Re: Re: Modi's Military History
by P S SHAH on May 14, 2018 09:32 PM
Shekhar Gupta is bias and colour blind journalist . He will write what suit his ideology and self interest.
Re: Re: Modi's Military History
by P S SHAH on May 14, 2018 09:26 PM
Bhaiyaji, why don’t you give answers to Mr Gokhale’s question point by point instead of writing nonsense ? If you have no answers, just keep quiet.
Re: Modi's Military History
by Satyajeet Singh Yadava on May 14, 2018 02:10 PM
Mr.Gokhale,your questions to Shekhar Gupta are of no value.The writer is correct that the PM got the facts mixed up!Now if the Political Leadeship only is to be blamed for Various Military debacles throghout Indian History,then the Blame must start with Ashoka,HarshVardhan,PrithiViRaj,Rana Sanga,Akbar,Peshwa BajiRao & pass on to Nehru!!! By the what significant Sri Modiji has achieved Militarily except Using time & again the army for a Votes????????????????
Re: Re: Modi's Military History
by Rajnath Guru on May 14, 2018 06:18 PM
Social media has empowered the hardworking , productive class to think logically and systematically... No longer 2 kaudi jounos like sekar gutta and his gang can hoodwink by resorting to cheap technics that are often found in res light areas.....
Re: Modi's Military History
by P S SHAH on May 14, 2018 02:34 PM
Mr Gokhale, Shekhar gupta is a known opportunist, pseudo secular hypocrat and Modi hater as he is not getting any undue importance which he never deserve from modi and his present government. This frustrated man has no alternative but to take out his frustration, depression writing nonsense all the time. Let him continue whatever he want to write. His bias writing will have no effect on the performance and poll prospects on Modi or his party and they will continue to march on as usual.
Re: Re: Modi's Military History
by Satyajeet Singh Yadava on May 14, 2018 02:58 PM
Hahahahahaha!!!Rather,your frustation is getting manifested here,Dear Shahji??????????????????
Re: Re: Re: Modi's Military History
by P S SHAH on May 14, 2018 08:59 PM
Bhaiyaji, it is people like you and that Mad Mitesh who gets depressed and frustrated day by day after your party thrown out of power in states after states.
Re: Re: Modi's Military History
by alok shah on May 14, 2018 03:43 PM
How on earth Mr. PS shah, you can condone what is not true. Is critiquing Modi ji a crime? As the PM of the country, should he not be a little more careful with the facts instead of being economical about them to suit his political ends?
Re: Re: Re: Modi's Military History
by vinod jaiswal on May 14, 2018 04:52 PM
You say "should he not be a little more careful with the facts" In my opinion 'not be a little more' He as the Prime Minister should be 100% correct in what ever he says. He should be a perfectly correct what he says.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Modi's Military History
by jkj on May 15, 2018 05:00 PM
As PM he should be 100% right but generally he changes his role to a simple party speaker who need not be always correct.
Re: Re: Re: Modi's Military History
by P S SHAH on May 14, 2018 09:02 PM
Why did not never raised this questions for others ?you want to target Modi only ? Yes, whatever he may have said may be wrong as per history. If you want,you may take appropriate action against him if you want.
Re: Modi's Military History
by alok shah on May 14, 2018 04:20 PM
Well, critiquing Modi ji for his political comments does not mean or amount to ridiculing him per se. In democracy, one does reserve the right to criticize even the PM but that does not amount to disrespecting him?
Re: Re: Modi's Military History
by palanki narayana on May 14, 2018 05:17 PM
Disrespecting a PM? Point well taken. The criticism can be strong yet sober, scathing yet parliamentary. Don't you think this advice applies not only to sickulars and pseudoliberals but also to saffronites and Bhaktas?
Re: Modi's Military History
by alok shah on May 14, 2018 04:21 PM
Well, critiquing Modi ji for his political comments does not mean or amount to ridiculing him per se. In democracy, one does reserve the right to criticize even the PM but that does not amount to disrespecting him?
Re: Modi's Military History
by vinod jaiswal on May 14, 2018 04:35 PM
Dear Friend,all the questions that you have raised with Shekhar Gupta are good and relevant. But Sir, instead of asking it will be good for your knowledge bank to do some serious study. There are detailed and well mapped studies awaiting, provided you have some time from being a cheer leader
Re: Modi's Military History
by madmax on May 14, 2018 06:37 PM
Mr. Gokhale, You have too many WH questions. Better refer to Archives or Wiki. Also can you tell me Why did sachin tendulkar got out on 99 so many times.
Since you and I were not in that situation or circumstance, it is easy for you to raise such questions on a Platform of Computer age which was opposed by BJP when Rajiv Gandhi made a decision to get computers into India during his UNO visit. We blame the west because they had/have color racism..How different is it from when Bhramins sect in India decided to dominate and refuse to upskill the poor and dalits and SC/ST... Had this not been done in our Indian history, Mr. Ambedkar would have not created such constitution with reservations.
Re: Modi's Military History
by madmax on May 14, 2018 06:37 PM
Mr. Gokhale, You have too many WH questions. Better refer to Archives or Wiki. Also can you tell me Why did sachin tendulkar got out on 99 so many times.
Since you and I were not in that situation or circumstance, it is easy for you to raise such questions on a Platform of Computer age which was opposed by BJP when Rajiv Gandhi made a decision to get computers into India during his UNO visit. We blame the west because they had/have color racism..How different is it from when Bhramins sect in India decided to dominate and refuse to upskill the poor and dalits and SC/ST... Had this not been done in our Indian history, Mr. Ambedkar would have not created such constitution with reservations.
Re: Modi's Military History
by madmax on May 14, 2018 06:38 PM
Mr. Gokhale, You have too many WH questions. Better refer to Archives or Wiki. Also can you tell me Why did sachin tendulkar got out on 99 so many times.
Since you and I were not in that situation or circumstance, it is easy for you to raise such questions on a Platform of Computer age which was opposed by BJP when Rajiv Gandhi made a decision to get computers into India during his UNO visit. We blame the west because they had/have color racism..How different is it from when Bhramins sect in India decided to dominate and refuse to upskill the poor and dalits and SC/ST... Had this not been done in our Indian history, Mr. Ambedkar would have not created such constitution with reservations.
Re: Modi's Military History
by madmax on May 14, 2018 06:38 PM
Mr. Gokhale, You have too many WH questions. Better refer to Archives or Wiki. Also can you tell me Why did sachin tendulkar got out on 99 so many times.
Since you and I were not in that situation or circumstance, it is easy for you to raise such questions on a Platform of Computer age which was opposed by BJP when Rajiv Gandhi made a decision to get computers into India during his UNO visit. We blame the west because they had/have color racism..How different is it from when Bhramins sect in India decided to dominate and refuse to upskill the poor and dalits and SC/ST... Had this not been done in our Indian history, Mr. Ambedkar would have not created such constitution with reservations.
Re: Modi's Military History
by madmax on May 14, 2018 06:38 PM
Mr. Gokhale, You have too many WH questions. Better refer to Archives or Wiki. Also can you tell me Why did sachin tendulkar got out on 99 so many times.
Since you and I were not in that situation or circumstance, it is easy for you to raise such questions on a Platform of Computer age which was opposed by BJP when Rajiv Gandhi made a decision to get computers into India during his UNO visit. We blame the west because they had/have color racism..How different is it from when Bhramins sect in India decided to dominate and refuse to upskill the poor and dalits and SC/ST... Had this not been done in our Indian history, Mr. Ambedkar would have not created such constitution with reservations.
Re: Modi's Military History
by madmax on May 14, 2018 06:38 PM
Mr. Gokhale, You have too many WH questions. Better refer to Archives or Wiki. Also can you tell me Why did sachin tendulkar got out on 99 so many times.
Since you and I were not in that situation or circumstance, it is easy for you to raise such questions on a Platform of Computer age which was opposed by BJP when Rajiv Gandhi made a decision to get computers into India during his UNO visit. We blame the west because they had/have color racism..How different is it from when Bhramins sect in India decided to dominate and refuse to upskill the poor and dalits and SC/ST... Had this not been done in our Indian history, Mr. Ambedkar would have not created such constitution with reservations.
In attempting to potray Modi's history as wrong, Shekar Gupta has himself made a few blunders. 1965 was a victory in the sense that the aggressor was repulsed, and India had upper hand when ceasefire was signed. If Shekar calls 1965 a stalemate, then so was 1962, as both ended in a ceasefire. Further, Shekar has completely forgotten 1967, which was also a minor tactical victory for India. In most of these cases, the war seemed to have been stopped more at the insistence of the military powers US and Russia. It was abundantly clear that US and Russia were calling the shots in these wars, while the stage was set in subcontinent. To some extent one agrees with his assessment that an overdue share of the blame is attributed by the BJP to the congress. Things may not have been very different had BJP been ruling then..
Re: one wrong for another
by palanki narayana on May 14, 2018 04:49 PM
In 1962 the Chinese steadily moved forward and the ill equipped Indian troops had to retreat in the face of attack by superior numbers and weapons. The ceasefire was called at the time the Chinese chose.The Chinese retained the areas claimed to be their own (and continue to retain even now) but voluntarily vacated the areas not claimed by them. It is agreed by all historians that the 1965 war was a draw, with Pakistan having the first innings lead (in terms of material confiscated and territory held or defended). Pakistan celebrates their "victory" every year to this day. Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto rebelled against his boss Ayub Khan's decision to agree for a ceasefire called by UNSC. Ayub had to lock him up. It is wishful thinking that West Pakistan could be obliterated after Bangladesh was liberated. The super powers would not have allowed it. Finally, a word about Kashmir. When Hari Singh fled Srinagar to Jammu, the valley was defenceless for five full days, but Jinnah could not capitalise the situation as the British Commander of the Pakistan Army did not want to fight. What followed (the tribal invasion, the signing of instrument of accession, air attack by Indian army, birth of two Kashmirs) is a story of blunder after blunder, with consequences that haunt us even now.
Re: one wrong for another
by vinod jaiswal on May 14, 2018 05:00 PM
"1965 was a victory in the sense that the aggressor was repulsed, and India had upper hand when ceasefire was signed." This is your presumption/interpretation; may be right or may be wrong, depending on which side of the line you are sitting. The historical fact is that "it was a ceasefire" And Sir, Mr Shekhar Gupta is not attempting to portray any thing he is factually right. It is you that are miring yourself in knots.
Re: one wrong for another
by vinod jaiswal on May 14, 2018 05:01 PM
"1965 was a victory in the sense that the aggressor was repulsed, and India had upper hand when ceasefire was signed." This is your presumption/interpretation; may be right or may be wrong, depending on which side of the line you are sitting. The historical fact is that "it was a ceasefire" And Sir, Mr Shekhar Gupta is not attempting to portray any thing he is factually right. It is you that are miring yourself in knots.
