Clear headed and bold write up. However, one major misguided force - self proclaimed fake secularist - has not been addressed // they constitute the internal resistance to acceptance of reality in India..
The country needs to implement anti-conversion law and I do not understand why the christian missions oppose the same.This shows their basic objective of harvesting and converting the poor with all kinds of promises and concessions.
Re: Re: Implement anti-conversion law
by jignesh narayan parmar on May 09, 2015 10:55 AM
What have british Christians done to Indians is loot and rape the indian sisters / inspite of that u people are allowed to do conversions on the basis of taking advantage of the poverty of Indians poor .Even today Christian make fun and insult of our Hindu gods and we are still quiet / It is only because the minorities have In their blood to insult others on religious grounds / the majority has to take action .
Re: Implement anti-conversion law
by on May 09, 2015 09:42 AM
is it your will? we have full freedom to chose our faith or religion, what is the need to make anti conversion law? pl think
Re: Implement anti-conversion law
by Iqtidarul Zaidi on May 09, 2015 10:40 AM
The write up is a good piece of writing on an issue which is most often raises emotions rather that dispassionate assessment of history. one must remember history preserve events as they happened and not as we wish them to have been happened. Writer deserves kudos for such work.
An extraordinarily brilliant article by Col Athale. Captures the crux of the problem.A vilification campaign is being secretly carried out against India by NRIs&NGOs.These two organizations are least bothered about the welfare and progress of our country,the first because they have already deserted the country and the second because,they are being paid to destabilize our country.The US Govt must ensure that they do get misled by these two rubbish groups.
Re: Re: UNTIL TRUE WISDOM GROWS SUBSTANTIALLY THESE DIFFEREN
by R Chakravarti on May 09, 2015 02:53 PM
Nonsense. There is nothing like that in the Upanishads. The source of that is some other works, that too misinterpreted.
we may have problems but we are not enemy of eà ch other. leave us alone and do not poke your nose. we aÅe capable of handling and solvinÄ£ all differences
This author is still living in the 19th century. He has studied the indian and world history in connection to relgion but he is both deff and dumb also blind to the reality of present real situation. His comparision to the past exposes still he has not come in to this present. Only because of like this blind people's aggressive approach, our Mother India's Real development and its prosperity is blocked. Can any really matured rational person agree with any of his argument? Can any peace loving person agree with his justification for the intolerance attitude of this uncivilized parivar?
Re: Old Petty minded blindman
by Against Pseudos on May 09, 2015 06:33 AM
Arulraj: To answer your question - Yes. We agree with his logic. And yes we agree that you are an RNI.
Re: Old Petty minded blindman
by arulraj on May 09, 2015 07:10 PM
Because of like you blind fools, our nation which stood to its tall and stands still, has lots of obstacles in becoming super power in spite of having all resources.
Re: Old Petty minded blindman
by Urvashi Seth on May 09, 2015 09:12 AM
Please study English and write the article.If u do not know English,please write in Tamil.The readers should not be subjected to such incompetent language whatever be the matter u are writing.
To some people, an oozing sore on their face is nothing, as long as their neighbour has a pimple.
The direction that things are going in this country is a cause for concern. It matters nothing that we used to be better, or that somewhere else used to be worse.
Think again, to much of this message board, the past 67 years were a dark age of injustice and oppression, EXCEPT when someone chooses to remember Admiral Dawson or Air Chief Marshal Latif.
Re: Predictable
by Jaswinder Chabra on May 09, 2015 04:06 PM
In US a temple cannot be built as it is built in India. Its shape cannot be like in India. There are restrictions. Similarly Azaan through loud speakers is not allowed for Mosques. Those who find faults with India ,its people , its govt should introspect first. Moreover focus more on your responsibilities to this country rather than your 'rights'. This applies to all.
Re: Re: Predictable
by David Jacob on May 11, 2015 12:27 AM
I would expect fire and safety regulations, and building codes, apply to all structures. And responsibilities to this country also include doing what one can to make sure all Indians of the present and future, are offered the same rights we took for granted.
Re: Predictable
by Venkatesa Prabhu on May 09, 2015 04:39 AM
@ Jacob : No point in trying to reason with you, sir. Since your mind is made up, no amount of reasoning can work to review it. Please tell me one another nation in which there is so much religious tolerance. Certainly NOT the USA, Europe, Australia or the Latin Americas or the Russian Federation. When a racial attack in USA, Australia or elsewhere happens, you are willing to 'forgive and forget'. But we Indians might get egged by some zealots and convert ourselves from our normal behavior witnessed over the last several centuries and more specifically over the last 60 plus years.
Re: Re: Predictable
by David Jacob on May 09, 2015 08:06 AM
I can tell you one nation you all know well "where there is so much religious tolerance".
The standard we ought to follow is what this country USED to be; where despite our faults, every citizen was valued and protected.
Supporters of this new regime condemn everything about the past ones, and then turn around and say that the tolerance that THEY had no part in nurturing, and condemn as "appeasement", - is somehow inbuilt into India.
Look on this page, you will find abuses like RNI in the article, AND the comments.
Re: Predictable
by Aftab on May 09, 2015 12:34 AM
look india lives in village and there is perfect harmony in 99.99999% villages. no issue of religious believe. all share anÄ help each other.
riots are the problem of cities but it remains confined to one city only. generally vested interest is behind it. but once the nkrmalacy returns the wound is healed in short period and life becomes normal.
please do not interfare and blow the problem disproportionately. Hindu muslims give employment to all.
Re: Re: Predictable
by David Jacob on May 09, 2015 12:56 AM
I am troubled that you use the word "interfere" when I write my views ? Have I become a foreigner in my land, on the basis of my username, as much as my message ?
Please look at your message again, and then tell me that all is perfect here !
I do not believe that all Indian villages are a harmonious whole where the community instinctively sticks together without regard to differences of faith, caste or political view. The facts say that India is urbanizing, and in my view, people anywhere will tend to side with their own kind against people of other kinds. It is like a bad basic instinct that affects everybody.
That behaviour of hating the outsider has to be unlearned, as people learn that they are being played by their leaders to further their own agendas.
Does life become normal after someone dies in a riot, as you said ? It seems likely that the survivors would live in fear of the category that attacked them, and as for the dead - death is not something that heals and lets life become normal.
It seems such a waste when innocents die. The good that they could have done will never happen; the food that they ate in their life was all for nothing; and the action that led to their deaths risks becoming part of "normal life" for EVERYONE else.
Re: Re: Re: Predictable
by Aftab on May 09, 2015 01:28 AM
i do not know your back ground but let me tell you that i have my roots in village and work in a city that has witnesed two bloody riots in 64 and 1979. you can not find trace of riots in our daily life. we work and live together peacefully.
There are insane fellows in all communities. If we start taking notice of them, then we have problem but if we ignore them life is pretty good.
so the biased approach of some is not the voice of India. We certainly do not like interference from Any country be it America or England.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Predictable
by Aftab on May 09, 2015 01:33 AM
dear jacòb i used the word interfere in context of USA and not for any countrymen. I am a practicing muslim and proud Indian like you.
The use of harsh word and words like flat earth to prove errors in bible in the article was uncalled for and is in bad taste.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Predictable
by jayesh raje on May 09, 2015 07:32 AM
Agree with you Aftab.Your views resonate with the meaning of your name.Need to mention that, though am a rationalist,as far as our country is concerned, we are on the same page.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Predictable
by David Jacob on May 09, 2015 01:48 AM
I have to say, that choosing to ignore some people, calling them "insane" can be short-sighted. There are people listening to them, and hearing something shocking said over and over again, will take away the shock value; what you find horrifying and disgusting can become the basis of someone's core set of values.
I can cover my ears, but the newspapers will still tell me how mainstream parties in power have decided that planning a family should not be a voluntary thing in "some" communities. That fringe organisations are coming up saying that destroying "some" religious structures should not be seen as an illegal act.
You can choose to ignore this; but this pattern has happened before, elsewhere, and it did not end well. India is special in some ways, but we are humans - just like everyone else who made the same mistakes.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Predictable
by David Jacob on May 09, 2015 04:31 PM
To Urvasi Seth
The constitution that lets you vote in a government chosen by the people also lets people follow their religion freely. Your statements saying that the benchmark is to match what is followed in " Gulf or in Pakistan" is not correct. Those countries come as a package of dictatorship for all, together with restricted rights for the unlucky few. I have no wish to take that as a standard for this country, we are better than that.
And Government having no control over what happens - it was a political party allied with the government that wanted to surgically engineer the religious demographics. It was NOT some idiot on a message board, it was in the newspaper of a major political party.
There is no point using distraction tactics, a vandalized place of worship in Texas does not "balance" the creeping intolerance here.
And for your comments that some people do not deserve freedom - which can be freedom to write what one thinks, or how to practise his/her religion - What makes you the proper person to regulate freedom for others ?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Predictable
by Urvashi Seth on May 09, 2015 09:18 AM
Mr Jacob,You should be thankful to India that even being a Christian minority,you are given so much religious freedom which you cannot expect in any country.If u were in Gulf or in Pakistan,then u will understand what freedom u are enjoying in India.Inspite of that,u have the audacity to blame the Government for a few scattered incidents over which the Govt has hardly any control.Are u aware of the number of temples which have been recently attached in the US? Some people do not deserve freedom!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Predictable
by Jaswinder Chabra on May 10, 2015 05:04 PM
As long as temple vandalism is seen as mere 'distraction tactics', and not as another facet of 'intolerance', religious harmony may remain a distant dream.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Predictable
by David Jacob on May 10, 2015 07:40 PM
To Jaswinder Chabra - Until you learn the concept that a wrong elsewhere does not balance a wrong done here, logic and you will always be strangers.
You can pick and choose words, but you could read my entire sentence if you wanted to.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Predictable
by David Jacob on May 11, 2015 12:18 AM
To Jaswinder Chabra
Again, let's look at your favourite counterpoint - vandalised temples in a distant land. It is an abhorrent crime, having deeper effects than the dollar amount of the property damage. It puts a community in fear, and provokes a distrust directed against the majority community they see in their daily lives; and all these despite their effective legal system. And also more than I have written here, or can even imagine.
But, it does not "balance" anything in India; neither is it somehow prevented by despicable actions in India against other Indians.
When the local skinhead or supremacist chooses to damage a Hindu place of worship, he likely has no quarrel with Hindu mythology or dharma- it is a skin-colour thing. All my countrymen living abroad are equally saddened because the offenders have directed their hate against ALL of us. Unpunished, a broken-into temple can escalate into further incidents of racial violence, more direct, and not in the least sensitive to the doctrinal differences between Indians.
So this is what I think each time you bring out this kind of argument; when you say "what about vandalised temples in US ?" when I protest that my religion is being targeted in my country. You are going to be shocked to hear this, but your counter-example is one where this Indian is again the target.
