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'To compare bureaucrats to those in armed forces is laughable'


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arungopal agarwal
OROP
by arungopal agarwal on Aug 31, 2015 10:56 AM

Govt. must keep the pot of pension payment same i.e. accumulated balance with the Govt. and allocate the money as per pot available on OROP basis. This must be implemented to all govt. servants instead of DA linked pension to all. Do not make India Greece-tax payer is already heavily burdened for such loot.

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GAUTAM MOOKERJEE
OROP
by GAUTAM MOOKERJEE on Aug 30, 2015 06:46 AM  | Hide replies

Only those in the Armed Forces who are deployd in the combat areas should be covered under OROP.There are undreds of soldiers and officers who have served their lifetime in the Education Corps,the Supply Corps,the Postal Corps,the Medical Corps,Ordnance Corps,the Survey of India, Territorial Army,NCC CME etc who definitely do not deserve the OROP.Else all those in the BSF,BRO,ITBP,CRPF,CISF etc also should be considered.

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NEELAKANTAN R
Re: OROP
by NEELAKANTAN R on Aug 30, 2015 10:14 PM
well said. These people enjoy everything during their service and still want people pay for their welfare even after retirement. How many people in India do not get one square meal a day. Please compare them. In one form or other they also serve for the country.

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kumar  eswaran
Re: Re: OROP
by kumar eswaran on Aug 31, 2015 09:02 AM
yes sir you are correct,consider the service of police force,because they are doing their duty ,we are freely moving and sleeping without fear,see the medical personnel ,because of them we are leading good life,see railwaymen ,because of them we are travelling safely,so everybody is doing their service and reaching the people of the country ,as you said it can be restricted to people who serve in the combat areas.but the demand to revive every year is not a good idea,they have to think about others also who serve the nation and the people of the nation in silent way.

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Zahoor Ahmad
Re: OROP
by Zahoor Ahmad on Aug 31, 2015 11:54 AM
Your contention is not based on actual facts. The truth is that men from the the Education Corps,the Supply Corps,the Postal Corps,the Medical Corps,Ordnance Corps,the Survey of India, Territorial Army,NCC CME...all serve in field areas, high altitude, counter insurgency, Siachen, North East etc...and that too in the forward most posts just like infantry. In the AF we have a system of field- peace rotational postings. ..so everyone has their fair share of hardships. During Kargil War we had a high percentage of fatal casualties of men and officers of the above mentioned services. I do not blame you fr this misperception...as many who do not serve in the AF think so.
Yr second comment regarding PMF is also not correct. The AF have been asking fr OROP fr last 4 decades....but there is no noise from the PMF fr OROP...reason...because they know they do not have a justification. PMF soldiers retire at 60 years while our soldiers retire at 34 to 37 years of age..how can you compare? The bulk of AF offrs retire at 52/54 yrs but all PMF retire at 60 yrs of age. Moreover, the PMF cadre offrs do not occupy the high ranks within their heirarchy...the IPS offrs are deputed at IG/ ADG/ DG level. Whereas AF have their own offfrs in the entire pyramid.

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Thomas Philip
Re: OROP
by Thomas Philip on Sep 05, 2015 10:20 PM
Your comments betray a total lack of awareness as to what is a combat zone.All the supporting services also are deployed in combat zones.In fact during the 1971 war when the Commanding Officer and Second-in-Command of !6 th Battalilion the Madras Regiment were killed in enemy shelling the Regimenta Medical Officer took over the Battalion HQ and co-ordinated the battalion operations.

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Shri Krishan
mr Sudhir VS ORP
by Shri Krishan on Aug 29, 2015 07:59 PM  | Hide replies

Mr Sudhir is fighting a pitched battle against ORP,like we in the Army fight during the final phase of an assault.A proclaimed writer,but he has joined battle very late and unarmed.Should have read decisions of 3 parliaments,5 PM,s and 4 p/ committees.Answers to all All his questions are there. shri chander Shekhar,has quoted the same.
2 PMF have themselves accepted that they are on contributory pension,while the armed forces are on govt pension and therefore two are incomparable.If pensions are not comparable then the question of ORP does not arise.
Suggestion to create a wedge between jawans and officers is not only dangerous but anti-national if accepted.it is not a new thing for bureaucracy.
3 All the same the article been able to create doubt about the ORP ,in the minds of those who do not understand the ethos of the armed forces.He should have at east quoted US Present's views about his defence veterans.Now that our PM is own personal friendship with him he could have discussed with him but Mr Modi never had any doubts about the whole issue.That is our hope too.He has been very keen to implement it right from the first week in office,but it is now common knowledge that the FM and the bureaucracy is not.
Tthe PM has to take all along.they have been dropping 'red herrings'and getting sponsored articles published to create a confusion. A speaker at JM proclaimed that a srbureaucrat has said,ORP OVER MY DEAD BODY?Hope it is not true.
shri krishan
Brig( retd

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Against Pseudos
Re: mr Sudhir VS ORP
by Against Pseudos on Aug 30, 2015 02:31 AM
A retd Mahor Gen should get the same pension as a jawan. Agree?

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Sudhir Bisht
Re: mr Sudhir VS ORP
by Sudhir Bisht on Aug 30, 2015 09:38 AM
Brigadier Sir,
I thank you for posting comments on this article of mine. In fact you had posted many comments on my last article and I had responded online promptly.
If you see my previous article on OROP, I had summed up the observations of those who oppose OROP. http://www.rediff.com/news/column/orop-for-jawans-is-justified-not-so-much-for-officers/20150826.htm

In this interview, I have posed the questions from anti-OROP to Rajeev ji who is a strong supporter of OROP and the MP has given point-by-point rebuttal which has been carried out in the interview.
As columnist and a writer, I present all the perspectives and that is how it should be.
Thanks and regards Sir
Sudhir Bisht


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Ravi Mannethu
OROP-payment early the better
by Ravi Mannethu on Aug 29, 2015 04:31 PM

Rajiv Chandrasekharan is the lone MP championed the cause of this retired jawans and Officers for many years since.His hasn't any known political agenda in flagging this issue.He has explained the numerous reasons why these old brave hearts deserve One Rank One Pension in crystal clear terms.There is no comparison between the service of a jawan and a babu in the civil sector.The life of jawans are under stress from day one they join the armed forces.Imagine the life of a jawan serving our country in the Siachen Glacier under sometimes the worst climatic conditions i.e.minus 30'at an altitude of 18370 mtrs from the sea level.It's naive and gross stupidity to compare this service with Babu's in civil the civil sector.My heart bleeds for their just cause.But in my humble opinion, they can lessen their adamancy of sticking to Satyagraha unto death.They have waited for for decades;so,give the new Govt.few more days to wrap up the whole deal in a faultless conclusion.

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THANGAVELU
Best Assessment
by THANGAVELU on Aug 29, 2015 03:59 PM

Whether veterans succeeds to get OROP is immaterial, the different between combatant service and others is well brought out. It is unfortunate that our decision makers are trying to ignore the sacrifices made by military personnel, just by comparing other claims equating to this. No job is equal to service. Financial burden ? We talk of lakhs for crores for certain schemes ? Genuine assessment is highly commendable. Patriotism needs to be in blood, recognized & demonstrated and not delay, denial and material market forces to take sensitive decisions.

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Hirendra Chatterjee
Ex-servicemen or mercenaries
by Hirendra Chatterjee on Aug 28, 2015 08:22 PM  | Hide replies

Chandrashekhar seems to ignore the fact that the central govt. has accepted OROP in principle. The PM promised from the Red Fort on Independence Day that OROP is a foregone conclusion. The problem is a set of ex-servicemen are demanding the moon in the name of OROP. For one thing they want an annual revision of pension - for central government employees it is a revision every 10 years. Then pension scheme has been discontinued for govt. servants from 2004. Our ex-servicemen are extremely reasonable patriots and it is only this so-called leadership indulging in dharnas, fasts etc. which is very unbecoming of soldiers that is behaving like trade union leaders and mercenaries. The govt. should announce their award as it is as next this leadership may ask for more impossible things they certainly do not deserve.

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Zahoor Ahmad
Re: Ex-servicemen or mercenaries
by Zahoor Ahmad on Aug 31, 2015 11:09 AM
You are perhaps senile...or plain ignorant to state that ESM are mercenaries or trade unionists. It is unfortunate that India is the only nation where soldiers are disrespected. Other nations revere their defence forces. If protesting in peaceful and democratic manner makes ESM organisations as trade unions then every Indian is a trade unionist and mercenary as per your demented remarks!!! Kindly introspect. It is evident that you have no sons or relatives in AF. I challenge you to spend one night in an ambush in Nagaland or Kashmir....you will cry "Oori Baba". Let me set the record straight; OROP was snatched from ESM wef 1973. Pl read the Koshiyari Committee report before you open yr mouth. It is just 14 pages...and an eye opener fr ignorant people. " ..in Principle" is a fuzzy word being used by Jaitely and sundry to obfuscate the matter. The main issue is why are they not implementing what has been accepted and defined in Parliament in 2014? Your comments on pension revision challenge the very "principle" which you yourself propound. Dont try to distort the issue. It is evident that you are a civilian bureaucrat...no wonder the arrogance and distasteful remarks

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Zahoor Ahmad
Re: Ex-servicemen or mercenaries
by Zahoor Ahmad on Aug 31, 2015 11:09 AM
You are perhaps senile...or plain ignorant to state that ESM are mercenaries or trade unionists. It is unfortunate that India is the only nation where soldiers are disrespected. Other nations revere their defence forces. If protesting in peaceful and democratic manner makes ESM organisations as trade unions then every Indian is a trade unionist and mercenary as per your demented remarks!!! Kindly introspect. It is evident that you have no sons or relatives in AF. I challenge you to spend one night in an ambush in Nagaland or Kashmir....you will cry "Oori Baba". Let me set the record straight; OROP was snatched from ESM wef 1973. Pl read the Koshiyari Committee report before you open yr mouth. It is just 14 pages...and an eye opener fr ignorant people. " ..in Principle" is a fuzzy word being used by Jaitely and sundry to obfuscate the matter. The main issue is why are they not implementing what has been accepted and defined in Parliament in 2014? Your comments on pension revision challenge the very "principle" which you yourself propound. Dont try to distort the issue. It is evident that you are a civilian bureaucrat...no wonder the arrogance and distasteful remarks

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Prakash Bedekar
OROP
by Prakash Bedekar on Aug 28, 2015 05:43 PM  | Hide replies

There is nothing wrong in this demand for which financial burden should not be deterrent.

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Against Pseudos
Re: OROP
by Against Pseudos on Aug 29, 2015 02:14 PM
But why are veterans not agreeing then?

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Subramanian
basic premise
by Subramanian on Aug 28, 2015 05:42 PM  | Hide replies

Rajiv Chandrasekhar bases all his pro OROP arguements on the basic premise that Ex-servicemen are different from other pensioners. Difficult to accept that. However, even if that premise is accepted, can anything be demanded. For eg. tomorrow ORTP is demanded by ex-servicement ie. OR Two Pensions. Since my service is different from other govt services my pension should be twice others. Will that be accepted ? What is the quantum of the premium that should added to the pension of an ex-serviceman. That is the debate. We cannot argue that since the premise that there is a difference between armed forces and others is accepted any quantum of increase in pension is justified.

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