listening! likes of pm, fm and likes of manishankariyer who advocates uninterrupted dialogue with pakistan. negotiations and consultations are good for restoring relations with reasonble countries. but not with country like pakistan which is having a record of back stabbing the govt. must ensure and make sure that pakistan has mended his ways before initiating a dialogue with pakistan.
Re: pakistani aggression
by chidambervilas yerekuppi on Jan 29, 2013 12:00 PM
as long Pak comes under army rule, such blood shed always anticipated. how do we react to such situations is the big question. keeping our political control on defense, not much be-fitted reply can be given to pak, we need to re think on our approach handling such wars
At least Indian leaders were knowing that it is PAK soldiers in the dress up of Jihadis, now PAK is accepting, Why India is not in a position to reply PAK in its language, we do not have nationalist muslims in our country who can fight in PAK in similar way.
The poblem is what India is going to do even after knowing that the war was fought by Pakistani Soldiers. They have started all the 3 wars, they have brutually killed our soldiers, cut down the heads, mutulated the body of Captain Sourabh kali.
But our bastrad Politician were silent spectators. We have got a real brave army but these political leaders with their narrow vision comply them to laid their lives without any solid reason, making their children orphans. this is a real grudsome act of our politicians.
Re: Kargil War
by p on Jan 29, 2013 11:57 PM
Nobody care about soldiers.cong govt only wants votes. just like srk plays patriotic roles for the money to be made.
" The enemy still couldn't manage to capture the peaks, and instead filled in the valleys. Cut off and forsaken, our posts started collapsing one after the other, though the general publicly denied it"
why should india sacrifice its soldiers while trying to capture the peaks ? we did the wisest thing possible. eliminate them wit minimal loss of lives to our side. their forgotten soldiers died a miserable death, which they did not deserve, because of their cowards at the top
Re: the RAW guy must be less than intelligent
by Gagan Kundra on Jan 31, 2013 03:03 PM
If you have looked at Musharraf's eyes carefully, you can easily guess his father must be a chinese
Who ever involved in the Kargil war, it is a sad state of affairs on the other side of the border, be it PAkistan Army or mujahiddin in the guise of Pakistan army what ever the truth never is out and open. They always engage in various kinds of war with India, IT war, cold war, hide and seek war, shoot and scoot war, espionage, hacking war and what not.
They will not succeed in any thing, as long as India is united and show courage to ward off evil from the other side.
Re: Pakistan never tells the truth
by wizardo id on Jan 28, 2013 10:37 AM
yeah. pak should stop trying to pull others down and rise up instead. they have miserable quality of life, which will become another afghan like waste land in the hands of mullahs - whose only dream is to ban everything and return to the caves
Time has come for all H...Dus to unite are arise above language and caste.
come out in full numbers in 2014 ....think about the nation its your nation ... there is no point voting for a party in your state who aligned with c gress ..
save your motherland ....some people are fooling backward people by showing hand again ana again for last 65 years ...awake its already late...
Musruff used balawarstanis as cannon fodder , they lost more than 3000 of their men. RAW & militry inteligents of India failed to exploit it , though balawaristanis risen to revolt against pakis.
Whether the views of General reflect a genuine doubt within Pakistani security establishment or not is not clear. Making a case against ousted Musharraf does not mean much by itself. There is no word of reflection on the ongoing terror war.
It is unlikely that Pakistan become a bastion of freedom off late to permit free expression by individuals. While the cost of not trusting genuine communication is extremely high, the price of being misled by subtle info-war is no less. Makes interpretation of such pieces a complex exercises demanding detailed study.
Good thing about India is that over the last few decades of facing low intensity war, the responses have been fully institutionalized and depoliticized thanks to political consensus. Even economic policies have obtained such consensus for freer and genuine market economy; and more segments are likely to be depoliticized shortly.
Pakistani intelli folks must have realized that their low intensity war has only made Indian social fabric far stronger, the security measures scientific and sophisticated, and led to deeper engagement with developed West.
Whether Gen Aziz is ruminating for a long term peace, or only seeking tactical opening to polarize Indian polity on basis of talking to Pakistan would depend on his intent. Either way, his utterances assumes significance but the response to any mala fide intent would be different.
Re: needs to be interpreted with utmost care
by Ramesh on Jan 28, 2013 05:06 AM
There is much wisdom in recent observation made in his confirmation hearing by Senator Kerry that Foreign policy is economic policy. If the intent of Gen Shahid is not mala fide, it would be directed towards the socio-economic betterment of people of Pakistan. Such a policy would require a choice be made, between being a proxy aggressor for an emerging super power for aligned sectorial gains and assuming a mature leadership role in the realm of the Indian subcontinent towards steeper integration consistent with the history of past centuries. The declaration of intent can only be in terms of measurable indexes, which per the stated wise aphorism preferably got to be in economic terms. Though Gen Shahid has no direct say on such matters in real terms it is such democratic policy translation alone which would reflect the true nature of his intent which found media space for its vocalization.
Re: needs to be interpreted with utmost care
by vir singh on Jan 28, 2013 05:14 AM
ur essay is academic, immateure and does not remotely reflect the ground level dynamics.
Re: needs to be interpreted with utmost care
by vir singh on Jan 28, 2013 05:20 AM
ur essay is academic,verbose, immature and does not remotely reflect the ground level dynamics. i feel lt. gen. aziz account is well reasoned and true.
Re: needs to be interpreted with utmost care
by vir singh on Jan 28, 2013 05:23 AM
ur essay is typical verbose-academic, immature and does not remotely reflect the ground level dynamics. i feel lt. gen. aziz account is well reasoned and true.
Re: Re: needs to be interpreted with utmost care
by Ramesh on Jan 28, 2013 05:31 AM
Wars are not conducted on the basis of hate, not at the levels of Generals. If Gen Shahid, who ascribes to himself the role of being the accountable one, and seeks to gain credibility for bring in the know of things, he should have come clean those days itself. Not doing the right thing done, despite being having full knowledge, makes him equally guilty of the sordid deeds he hold Musharraf guilty for, albeit for a different line of reasoning though.
Agree, am totally unaware of the ground level dynamics, and for its concise account, it is for readers like you to reflect upon.
Re: Re: Re: needs to be interpreted with utmost care
by Ramesh on Jan 28, 2013 05:32 AM
Not doing the right thing DEED, despite being having full knowledge, makes him equally guilty
Re: Re: Re: Re: needs to be interpreted with utmost care
by Ramesh on Jan 28, 2013 05:36 AM
I would venture to go further and call his timely non-disclosure a cowardly act unbecoming of an officer who was also entrusted with sacred responsibility to steer the destiny of his nation.
Re: needs to be interpreted with utmost care
by Jabberwock on Jan 28, 2013 06:55 AM
These Pakis are tricky. My reading of Shahid Aziz's disclosure is that it is meant to give a garb of honesty to the Pakis, particularly in the context of the recent grisly incidents near LoC. You will soon see that the Pakis use Shahid Aziz's 'revelation' of the truth in Kargil to say that the Paki army was not at all involved in the LoC affair. With Indian Cabinet Ministers like Shinde and Khurshid, Pakis will succeed without any trouble.
Re: Re: needs to be interpreted with utmost care
by Ramesh on Jan 28, 2013 07:27 AM
Think you have a point. The General may have been holding his view for long, but was brought into limelight when timing was right.
These all, including everything I wrote are purely conjectures, and assessment can only be done by ones with domain expertise. For all you know General Aziz may have acted honorably all through and we are hurling unfair insinuations at him.
While it is worth speculating on all scenarios, the interpretations for policy responses would undoubtedly be made with utmost care. Professionalism on both sides, like their cricketing credentials is indeed sound on both sides of LOC.
Now the truth is out. It was Pakistan army which was fighting war and not Mujaheddin. One more lie busted of Pakistan. How long they gonna keep lieing. First Osama,now Kargil.. How long international community gonna soup port Pakistan??????
