US forcing to understand them rather than US should understand what background that Indian boy come from. This youngestor Indian has been grilled and trapped by over 40-50yrs aged US solicitors with their expeiences in their prcactices of the Dharun's age. Indian embassy should have provide Dharun top notched solicitor but this is a example of failur of Indian forign policies. At another side US soldier killed 16 Afghans while they sleeping and most of them women and kids, is stil proteced by US militory and whole US forign policiy is working day-night to protect that soldier who murderer of 16 innocent people. Compare to that what Dhiraj did, at his age, was all curosity. Though he physical age is over 18 but his mental age is under 18 and because of that immaturity of his brain he did all activities. Shame on Indian US embassy.
Re: US dictatorship
by Kiran on Mar 18, 2012 11:19 AM
USIndian embassy represents the collective psyche of all the indians. As an individual an indian wouldn' want to take responsibility for the wrong he commits. if this is the individual then how can the embassy be differet
Right at the outset - let me clarify - Ravi did something wrong.
But I don't think the legal system has worked fairly and properly here.
My thoughts: It was well established during the trial that Ravi setup webcam to record his room, because he was worried about his stuff getting stolen. This per se is not wrong - there are many people who setup webcams to monitor their homes in their absence.
The webcam happened to record Clementi in a compromising situation. Once again - Ravi cannot be faulted for this. Clementi should have done whatever he did in the privacy of his room.
When Ravi found out about the footage, he did 2 things. He first confronted Clementi, saying he knew Clementi was gay, and he was not comfortable with a gay roommate. This is where the bias intimidation charges come in. Secondly, he shared this video with others - putting Clementi in a very embarrassing position. This is where the invasion of privacy charges come in.
In my opinion, it is not wrong for a straight person to be uncomfortable with a gay roommate. I am not saying that discriminating against gays is fine - but having one for a roommate is entirely different matter. In your house, you wear/not wear clothes that you would not wear outside. If you are worried about how your roommate is seeing you, it is a reasonable concern. Bias intimidation is not applicable here. This is not an office where Ravi refused to work with Clementi.
Re: A misuse of the legal system
by two paisa on Mar 17, 2012 12:59 PM
However, it was very obvious to everyone, right from the beginning that invasion of privacy alone would not get a large enough sentence for Ravi.
Added to this, there was a lot of noise from gay and lesbian groups about making an example of Ravi, and making Ravi pay for being responsible for the death of Clementi.
What happened, was that the prosecution threw whatever charges they could come up with at Ravi, and there was a constant reference to the fact that Ravi's actions led to the death of Clementi.
There was also another issue - throughout the trial, there was a reference to the fact that Ravi's actions led to the death of Clementi - but Ravi could not directly be charged for the death of Clementi.
In such circumstances, the jury was almost led to believe that it was their duty to punish Ravi as much as possible! Even if the charges were not valid.
Ravi should have been charged with invasion of privacy only - by showing the video to his friends. His actions ended up having consequences that were quite extreme. But legally, speaking, the only thing Ravi did, that could be held against him, was invasion of privacy.
In all likelihood, Ravi would live with the guilt of being responsible for someone's death, throughout his life. That would be a big enough punishment - especially for someone from his cultural background, and belief in Karma, etc.
But because of the way this case was handled, everyone is now a loser. Hope it is not too late to fix things!
Re: Re: A misuse of the legal system
by Argumentative Indian on Mar 17, 2012 02:11 PM
I disagree with you.
"My thoughts: It was well established during the trial that Ravi setup webcam to record his room, because he was worried about his stuff getting stolen."
I think it was established that the above statement was a fabrication by Ravi, an after thought to save his skin. The camera was NOT pointed at his stuff but on his Roompartner's bed! That's one strange way to monitor your things! Lets protect the Taj Mahal from vandalism, lets put up some camera's nearby pointing towards the Jamuna!
2) "Clementi should have done whatever he did in the privacy of his room." - And that's exactly what he did. The room was as much Clementi's as Ravi's.
"In my opinion, it is not wrong for a straight person to be uncomfortable with a gay roommate." - Completely agree with you. There is a mechanism to address this, its called complaining to your hostel manager. If someone is listening to music loudly in a shared room, or smoking, or has bad hygiene, you COMPLAIN to the hostel manager. Don't attempt to broadcast videos.
BTW, when did Ravi confront Clementi, after or before recording the video? Just curious.
Re: Re: Re: A misuse of the legal system
by June on Mar 17, 2012 04:31 PM
While I tend to agree with Argumentative Indian, I also feel that the evidence for a hate crime ('bias intimidation') was not substantial (Come to think of it, there are more overt homophobes on rediff's comment box!) But that is not the point -- point is, adulthood is serious business. As an adult human being, if you say or do something "immature" you should also realised the consequences of your action and be prepared to face them.
In India, few realise how hurtful it is to be blamed for your religion or caste(for example), when these are just a matter of chance.
Unfortunately, many in India find it 'normal' to discriminate against caste, religion, gender and anything that goes against their own preferences (see the loads of comments on rediff, for example, that take pride in discriminating against people of certain religions or regions). No one hesitates to ask you 'what is your religion?' and if you don't wish to answer, it is insisted upon. There is very little space for personal freedom.
Re: The 'normalcy' of discrimination
by ashish tiwari on Mar 17, 2012 11:46 AM
i agree.. indians are worst hypocrites and it reflects in the type of society and politicians they choose for themselves...
Re: Re: The 'normalcy' of discrimination
by Jai Babu on Mar 17, 2012 12:11 PM
It was indeed a gross violation of another person's privacy by Ravi.
Sadly, we Indians are amongst the most hypocritical & bigoted societies in the world. Indians discriminate on the basis of caste, colour, language, religion, gender, sexua1 and even dietary preferences!
We need to develop tolerance towards all "types" of people even if they are different from us. It is a sensitization issue!
Re: Re: Re: The 'normalcy' of discrimination
by Argumentative Indian on Mar 17, 2012 02:14 PM
The interesting thing is that this discrimination, especially on religious lines is increasing instead of decreasing with economic progress. I think, at least in Urban India, we were a lot less religious and less affected by religious preferences, when I was growing up in the 1980s, than today in the 2010s.
Re: .
by ashish tiwari on Mar 17, 2012 11:48 AM
neither your playing vitim or casteist resrvation politics will work in US.. maya, paswan, and so called backward casteist leaders would be cooling their heels in jail for their views.
