US in all probability would have acted alone but alerted Pakistan at the last minute with a warning not to interfere and if the did, face severe consequences. That threat would have silenced them to a very mute mode. The documents seized by US from the operation theatre would reveal much more and US will analyse and take a call in a very discreet way that future US-Pak relations would be based on the wounds inflicted on both by each.If US wants a safer world after this episode, they should declare Pakistan a terror supporting state and give them the treatment they deserve. Any dubious deals in the name of diplomacy by US would set the clock back.
Just as Osama couldnot have been living in Pak without ISI's knowledge, the operation wouldnot have taken place without the knowledge of ISI. All are involved in everything. We have no life so discussing these things early in the morn or late in the nights.
If it was a US-Pak operation, the Pakistani officers have done a splendid job in offering a tied goat. The date was chosen for its effect and whole operation sanitized to offer no real resistance.
The only problem with this narrative would be that the operation would be deprived of its heroics and hype which has provided a real image boost. There would be total reluctance to admit this cooperation.
But most probably this is not really the case. US officers have done a meticulous and splendid job with months of preparation and technology deployment. The skill of the Seals would have been of exceptionally high order.
If the US-Pak ties deteriorates and the Pak Generals and their Intell Ops cease to be high profile interlocutors on behalf of Pakistan, as they have been over decades, instead the civilian dispensation wrests initiative, it would be a clear evidence that the Ops was real and done in real time mode. The skyrocketing image of US Security forces would then be a genuine one which would stand the test of history.
Re: shooting a tied goat
by Ramesh on May 04, 2011 07:38 AM
If it was only US show, then the India-centric policy of Gen Kayani has left their back uncovered. China also has not come to its diplomatic rescue yet, and it unlikely to take any tangible measure to mitigate the consequences.
US would be seen as a dagabaaz while China would be discerned as matlabi kavva. While these uniformed interlocutors would cut a sorry figure amongst their own country men for one sided trust.
Re: Re: shooting a tied goat
by Ramesh on May 04, 2011 07:45 AM
It makes more sense to have an new India Centric policy which relies on developing trust with India. This would call for two sensible steps, first cease low intensity warfare with India, second step back from politics to make room for genuine civil secular democracy in Pakistan.
India policy of not allowing military to handle internal terror threats, instead rely on political reconciliation and police action is worth emulating though it is a slow, messy and corrupt process.
Re: Re: Re: shooting a tied goat
by Ramesh on May 04, 2011 07:48 AM
Tackling foreign militants is ok, but Pak Army has had to most unfortunately soil its hands with the blood of its own countrymen, due to faulty policies and external prioritization. Amity with India alone can help thwart such pressures and let rule of law prevail for process oriented justice dispensation.
Re: Re: Re: Re: shooting a tied goat
by sridharan r on May 04, 2011 08:24 AM
One must understand that Pakistan as a nation lives and thrives only on anti India plank. There is no need for India on the other hand to beg for their friendship; the wound is deep and only a surgery can give best result for which our spineless leadership is not prepared.
Re: Re: Re: shooting a tied goat
by Ramesh on May 04, 2011 08:13 AM
Friendship with India is most difficult for the Pak security establishment as it would imply end of their cherished Islamic world-view from which the Kashmir resolve draws its sustenance.
Re: Re: shooting a tied goat
by Ramesh on May 04, 2011 08:04 AM
The reason why China dare not oppose US policy is it would be a virtual end of their ping-pong diplomacy while the index of unity between US and India would get enhanced sharply, making them vulnerable to serious economic and strategic threats with which they many not be in position to presently cope.
No,it was a solo American effort,if Pakistani's knew they would alarm Osama in advance because they have kept them like how our leaders keep Kasab ! No Biriyani,one bullet,this is American style !
Just imagine,like Dawood,even Osama thinks that Pakistan is the safest place for terrorists in the entire world and he lived their peacefully with several wives and children !
Re: ..
by sridharan r on May 04, 2011 08:21 AM
India should also give just one American biriyani to Kasab viz. one bullet and close the chapter once for all. For this to happen, we need a very bold and nationalistic ledership which is awafully absent presently.
after killing obl us will move out of afghanistan and let pakistan play a greater role there. India will be leftout as a fool even spending so much money. after obl next may KARJAI ENCOUNTER
its completely rules out that a common civilian or even an army officer below rank of some lt. gen. or some high integrity ISI staff officers would only be privy to the presence of osama at that place ...not even the adjutant of the military academy would have that info ....least of all civilians living around ...he is such a high valued target that non trained persons would at some point give out clues and compromise his security ...hence ...hazaras or any god damn civilian wouldn't know how is living there .... but surely some very high ranking ISI or army officer swearing allegiance to the cause might have known his whereabouts and gaurded him for ISI and govt. of pakistan...
as usual our babus and security experts hang on to some stupid detail.... inthe fight against west all muslims stand united ...just like fight against israel all arab countries become one ..shias and sunnis ...independently they may have unpardonable enemity ...but in the face of common enemy muslim brotherhood is one of the finest in world.....so mr raman's obsession with hazara theory is unfounded
what is still not clear and not properly explained by either pakis and americans is what paki security forces reaction was when a 40 min long fire fight was going on with huge explision right outside its military academy....
so pakis knew the attack ?
if pakis knew then why didn't they make arrangements with americans to pick this fellow dead or alive from abbottabad and show him killed in peshawar ? ... who the hell would know what happened there ? ...why would pakis knowingly risk indignity of a foreign force doing military operation just outside islamabad right under the nose of their military academy ? ...
Re: hmmm
by Wanderlust on May 04, 2011 04:30 AM
it could also be a case that the lone chopper that was destroyed there was actually shot by the air defences of the military academy before they got the call from GHQ to hold fire.... i think americans might have informed pakis just at the moment they surrounded the target area ....so everything happened within minutes....
else its impossible for american choppers to leave paki airspace without some sort of paki airforce escort LOL ..u know what i mean
Re: hmmm
by Wanderlust on May 04, 2011 04:27 AM
for americans it would make no difference if osama was killed in abbottabad or peshawar ...but for pakis it would surely make huge difference ....
this proves that pakis didn't knew the details of the operation ... they may have been caught with their pants down when the operations commenced ...but immediately the americans might have informed them after reaching the target spot and adviced to stay off limits or face the american bombers .... pakis might hav got immediate word to hold fire ...so americans finished job and left
