It shows even in the muslim world the democracy is taking firm roots. It is good for the world peace and future. As for as Egypt is concerned ,hats off to the youth for the determination and persuit for change of dictorship to democracy. This sort of uprising by youth is the result of the policies of the president being oppressive. In the end it seems America is brokering the deal for Husni Mubark to have respectable exit.But should remember that It will be not in the insterest of the people of Egypt to have puppet regime and the same shall be conterproductive.Therefore, the interim regime being installled should lead to free and fair elections. Chirnjiv Kukreja
Re: ISRAEL SHOULD TAKE CONTROL OF SITUATION
by Reportabuse on Feb 06, 2011 01:52 PM
Isreal truly must control Arab nations !with this the antire useless spending by arab nations can be spent on poor citizens ..... Even other wise arab armies r only to fightb poor citizens of arab world ..and burden on Arab natiuons ...... In fact Armies of Arab world be handed over to Isreal .......
Re: Re: ISRAEL SHOULD TAKE CONTROL OF SITUATION
by Helal Mohammad on Feb 07, 2011 06:06 PM
it would further complicate the matter it israel does any thing.this is for the people of Egypt to take decision of their future and country.every individual of the country should have right to participate in decision making.
Roger Cohen in NY Times has written about gated communities, the retreats of super rich; manifestation of corruption, cronyism, and connection. While in India where such gates enclaves are mostly for upper-middle classes and outcomes of professional excellence.
As stake is, as an anonymous Egyptian lady mentioned on TV, not just removing one person, but the military regime in civilian cloths. US effort to ensure orderly transition is misplaced priority. The need is to focus on the long term outcome alone.
Whether the final outcome shall be an Islamic state or a secular one founded on the profound civilisational and cultural ethos is the moot question. An Islamic state would be hollowing out of the institutions, may promote pan-Arabic solidarity but would cause cultural identity obliteration. Further, it could be a grave long term threat to the region and beyond.
Such difficult battle has been won decisively in India, and Egypt winning it can have profound impact on not just NAM nations. It may even preserve the unity of Sudan and unleash the undercurrents of prosperity via emphasis on egalitarian principles in a secular democracy.
Re: need is to focus on the logn term outcome alone.
by Ramesh on Feb 05, 2011 09:06 PM
The new man at helm hereafter ought to reflect the vision and asiprations for this long term future. It is creating this imaginative common understanding between the citizens of the nation which ought to get primacy over pragmatic considerations of stability and balance of power.
Re: Re: need is to focus on the logn term outcome alone.
by Ramesh on Feb 05, 2011 10:23 PM
The need is for a helmsman who can be conducive for the forthcoming Constituent Assembly to make unfettered legal choices based on debates set forth in their assembly.
He or she needs to be able to screen out not only unwarranted external influences but also baneful internal ones seeking to impose religious notions.
Re: need is to focus on the logn term outcome alone.
by Ramesh on Feb 05, 2011 10:59 PM
The intelligence infested and lobby driven political decision-making in US, which includes powerful Christian and Jewish lobbies are seeking to prioritize bridling of Egypt per their own interests and needs.
Their approaches are contrarian to the anti-colonial freedom movement spirit which had propelled Nasser led generation. But the participation of developed nations in the rebuilding of Egypt is also critical and healthy relationship in economic, security related terms is crucial. It is failure those domains which led to the present down-slide. How Egypt manages to regain its sovereign status and further develop constructive cooperation with US and other developed nations is a crucial question which can be answered only by the forthcoming Constituent Assembly.
Re: need is to focus on the logn term outcome alone.
by Ramesh on Feb 06, 2011 04:28 AM
Finally, it is lucky that President like Barak Obama is at helm in US, for the phase transition in Egypt. The sincerity in his effort is evident to discernible and also the competence at work. The stances taken so far, and step by step changes in the stance indicate that the emphasis is clearly on realizable outcomes. It is this policy which has implicitly safeguarded the agitators, creating capacity for considered choices to be made. The stated intent in such a vexed situation, given the baggage of history, is not necessarily the cherished one. And this smart safeguarding of potential for unstated but cherished choice ought to make a hero out of US Prez, if those do finally get realized.
Re: Re: need is to focus on the logn term outcome alone.
by Ramesh on Feb 06, 2011 05:23 AM
The stated choice to make Egypt VP the transitional leader signals the intent to make the incumbent immediately leave the office. The preferred choice may have been calculated to fall back to draconian ways to safeguard their geo-political interests in case the transition fails.
The civil, secular state, if realizable would remain the ideal option, but it can not be imposed externally, and making the ideal choice explicit could compromise the success of the outcome.
The transition to be irreversible needs a choice outside of the government in the choice of successor, for only then it can be ensured that the outcome would be per the aspirations of the natives not constrained by external interest.
But such an internally driven effort would need a progressive polity which does compromise minority and is sensible enough to recognize the limitations imposed by external threats. The disastrous failures, in 1956, 1967 and in 1973 may or may not have made their decision-makers wiser.
Failure to regain complete sovereignty by Egypt this time, would have serious consequences to many other NAM nations. Of the original troika, the nation led by Marshall Tito has become non-existent, and Egypt became undemocratic, under an umbrella. While Indian civlisational genius, perhaps due to its size, emerged better. Success of Egypt is also critical to not just other Arabic states, but for the destiny of NAM nations as well. In this wider world-view perhaps is the key to their safeguarding.
Re: Re: Re: need is to focus on the logn term outcome alone.
by Ramesh on Feb 06, 2011 05:51 AM
The West policy makers are placing Egypt developments in the crucible of wider Arabian polity, and terms of West-Islamic equations. Such efforts perhaps help to mobilize domestic polity for another round on long term indirect repression.
To break this cudgel it is necessary to recast the Egyptian issue to be what it really is, an economic issue, a sovereignty issue, about cultural freedom and proper flowering of their religious ethos. These are the issues pertaining to development which fueled anti-colonial movement of which Egypt was a critical component, until it was dismembered by the cold war polity, military defeats and efforts by cold warriors to foster a modicum of stability in the Middle-East to serve their purposes.
How the internal perceptions shall emerge within Egypt is not known, but Indian policy makers may have a role to play to elucidate that western constructs are misfits for long term safeguarding of their nation.
In this competitive arena Indian opinion-makers hopefully shall make a contradistinction.
Re: Re: Re: Re: need is to focus on the logn term outcome alone.
by Ramesh on Feb 06, 2011 06:15 AM
As the lines below from a paragraph of a poem I wrote in early 1981-82, considering Egypt as one of the foremost civilisation ever. The ambit in which Indian thinkers have viewed Egypt is far wider and more profound than one cast by their Arabic or Islamic identities. It is in the profound concepts since long past, of which Egyptians are the true inheritors may be found the intellectual harbingers for developed future in cultural and technological terms. It provides them with vast cultural and intellectual space to engender a broader and freer society vis-a-vis the Western society rooted in Greco-Roman and associative cultural moorings.
------------------- Lights prop all over. Yellow, white, red and green; The lamps in the temples, The beacons to the world. Proclaim but silently Of countless hours of thought. Human imagination down through ages. Speculations and experiments by Egyptians, Indians, Chinese and Greeks. Classical and modern sciences, Engineering.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: need is to focus on the logn term outcome alo
by Ramesh on Feb 06, 2011 07:36 AM
Presently those living in Egypt are subsumed by their Arabic and Islamic identities. For them the civilisational identity afforded by the geography appears to be a long dead past and their religious leaders militate against any identification.
Only a secular state can initiate the long term process of cultural exploration and reflection of their pre-Islamic heritages. The failures in Iran and Pakistan, do indicate that it is unlikely that Egypt will think unlike them.
But somehow the secular state needs to be preserved and reinforced for long term societal modernization within the cultural moorings of the nation.
In this sense, the failure of Egypt is an internal one, and linked to their self-concept. As a consequence they have become subjects of cowardly Generals, who bought peace after defeat by being subservient to external powers and bullies to their own populace.
Re: need is to focus on the logn term outcome alone.
by Ramesh on Feb 06, 2011 12:58 AM
It is worth noting the risk of threats posed by sectional interests in US, while encouraging linkages of the right kind with this indispensable nation is key to prosperity. It was US establishment which was able to institute a stratagem to install a totalitarian state in Egypt and outward flow of tens of billions of Dollars of investment from Egypt.
The surplus a society generates is better allocated and deployed by a functional competitive democracy permitting fair fight for allocation of resources. This choices people made in earlier decade were out of various compulsions and the consequences of those choices were surely not those intended by them.
Hence the necessity to make sovereign choices and be able to make timely course correction is critical in future and this is what a civil secular democracy alone provides. But enabler of the choice is not just words in the Constitution but the process of legislating it. It is the collective interests of all sections of the society in the nation which is better served by ensuring a clear break from the vestigial links to degenerated US sponsored dispensation. Ironically it is critical to rebuilding healthy relationship with US itself.
Re: need is to focus on the logn term outcome alone.
by Ramesh on Feb 06, 2011 12:22 AM
India has the requisite acumen to put up a concerted fight to overcome power-brokering machinations and enable to freedom movement spirit to prevail. This effort is crucially linked to the security and prosperity of many other developing nations and for the international law and not the political will of a particular nation to prevail. Facilitation by an institutional setup which is conducive to the shared vision of yesteryear may help Egyptians to be a master of their own destiny. Else, the wastage of genuis of their children shall continue unabated.
To A Jasmine Tree -------------------- O Tree! Don't you feel the pain? Isn't this all in vain? All those flowers that bloom Are shed so soon. Your white sparkling coat Is left so dull and smote. No storm, A gentle blow Is enough To shed the best in you.
Re: need is to focus on the logn term outcome alone.
by Ramesh on Feb 06, 2011 02:38 AM
So far no nation has really intervened in Egypt, there have been only inter-personal communication. Any non-diplomatic intervention would make ground for India and other nations to play a counter-stabilizing role. The balance of security equations is such that no nation would dare to risk make an intervention, fearing uncertain outcomes.
This altered climate, permits the intra-societal decision making by Egyptians more freely than ever before. This latent weight of appreciable support India provides along with other nations is a factor in according freer choice to Egyptians. Jasmine flowers are more likely to bloom this time.
Re: need is to focus on the logn term outcome alone.
by Ramesh on Feb 05, 2011 11:07 PM
Whether MMS leadership will play a tame seconding role to US policy makers on Egypt or play a meaningful role in deconstructing the 30 years old hegemony in a manner which furthers economic and cultural development of a fellow developing nation is a question which is still waiting for an answer. And it is clearly unwise to make brownie points at present juncture, continued silence is probably the better option.
The leverage we can have at present is quite limited. But if ever opportunity arises in future, hopefully India will not be a let down.
Re: Re: need is to focus on the logn term outcome alone.
by Reportabuse on Feb 06, 2011 01:56 PM
India's intersat can be kept with only cheap oil availabilty ...whatever policy governemnt adopts must see that not regime but which regime whether us sponored or not but which ensures cheap oil to India .......
The USA has prevailed over Dictator Hosni Mumbarak of EGYPT to leave the Presidency. Is the great HUMAN RIGHTS SUPPORTER, Mr. Barrack Obama doing something about Human rights in Saudi Arabia? Or will the US hypocricy continue forever?
Re: USA and EGYPT
by Gabbar on Feb 04, 2011 10:16 PM
Why USA and EGYPT...Why not USA and INDIA.Here is also a same dynastical situtation . And rememember my words the same setutation as in EGYPT or TUNISIA , you 'leaders'of world find in two to three years in INDIA.
Re: USA and EGYPT
by DarthVader on Feb 04, 2011 07:38 PM
The USA has to protects its own interests first. Everything else comes later, be it human rights or camel rights in Saudi Arabia.
