Sorry... I had to leave in the evening yesterday... so couldn't continue the discussion...
The following was your question...
"How many Indian Muslims support "India's stand on Kashmir" from the heart?"
-- And I think it is an utterly baseless assumptions that most Indian Muslims do not support India's stand on Kashmir...
Have you conducted any survey on the basis of which you make such claims? Indian Muslims are those who did not believe in the idea of Pakistan and believed in India. Three is no reason why their patriotism needs to be questioned.
Of course there are a few rotten eggs among Muslims too. Like there are in any community -- Robinder Singh, Madhuri Gupta, Lt Col Purohit etc are the Hindu examples.
But their betrayal is no way a function of their religion as you would love to believe.
In any case Kashmir is a delicate issue and there are also many Hindus too who do not fully appreciate or support India' stand on Kashmir. I myself have a very ambivalent stand on the Kashmir issue.
And that does not make any of us any less patriotic than any poison spewing chaddiwala.
So before looking at the world in black and white, us or them, here or there contrasts, learn to think in nuances.
Re: @Muthukaruppan
by Muthu Karuppan on May 14, 2010 01:35 PM
Harish - Well then, Convert your name into "Hanif Memon" and go to Pakistan. That is the right place for you. I think you are preparing your mind to become a "converted JIHADI". ALL the WORST!.
it is shocking beyond belief that pak and the pak people, media do not even see what terrorism is doing to that country...every major terror act around the globe has Paki signature and yet they think that India has issues to resolve with Pak. Pak needs to first take care of the extremism for its own survival..its not if, its when the paki collapse will happen if they do not go after each and every extremist group within its border..
Re: THEISM AND AETHISM SHOULD BE NOT BASED ON BIRTH
by Mahendra Patel on May 13, 2010 08:21 PM
Last sentance was Most world religion may die insatntly by mature choice of Human Intelligence.
Than no one will fight for Relious war, because it depent on Mature Choice, not Forced on a person by parents or soiety or a nation.
Re: Re: THEISM AND AETHISM SHOULD BE NOT BASED ON BIRTH
by Mahendra Patel on May 13, 2010 08:26 PM
This will wipe out any religion which is not logical,or outdated,or practical or forward looking, scientific or for harmoney between people.
This is whatt a mature human mind will ponder and decide.
Now use this criteria and don't fight for DOGMA or FAITH- These will lead you no where.
Re: THEISM AND AETHISM SHOULD BE NOT BASED ON BIRTH
by purush on May 13, 2010 08:23 PM
my vote is with u. But am sure if u and me form a party we will go bankrupt. because religion sells in India and developing nations especially.
Re: Re: THEISM AND AETHISM SHOULD BE NOT BASED ON BIRTH
by Mahendra Patel on May 13, 2010 08:28 PM
Not really,there are many factors and you will see INDIA IS MORE INTELLIGENT THAN WE GIVE CREDIT FOR.
Re: Re: Re: Re: THEISM AND AETHISM SHOULD BE NOT BASED ON BIRTH
by Mahendra Patel on May 13, 2010 10:11 PM
Here is reason Why? there were debates all over INDIA between Learned Men and Their faiths.
I agree that it is the people who should be blamed for the problem not the religion. But did you ever tried understanding the root cause of the issue. Why the whole world has anymosity or anonymity for Islam? Do you think people in Muslim dominant country get a chance to lives a liberal life like one does in none muslim country. There is a famous line in HRIGVEDA and it is something like this. "SA VIDYA YA VIMUKTAYE" which means "Knowledge is the one which liberates" but in the case of muslims [Not saying every muslim, but most of them], they confine them selves to narrow frame of mind, one must have a liberal view and listen to others and then argue. But with muslims, it is always difficult to convers on these lines. Have you ever had any opportunity to talk or discuss any religious matter with them? I don't say all Hindus are good, but mostly we are peaceful, otherwise muslim population in India could have been marginalised to nothing in last 60 years. I saw your comment about the religious freedom in Islamic countries, do you know how non-believers are treated there. It is a high time you go a get thoughts clarified.
A classy examples of religion is the rainbow, it depends from which angle you are looking at it. So is the religion. Just like a line on a black board, for some it could be a straight like and for some it could look like the number 1 and for some it might be lik
Re: My Dear Harish
by purush on May 13, 2010 08:02 PM
Dude, we have no rights to negotiate with their religion. there are a lot of issues in the way Koran has been written, yep agreed and so is our bagvat gita, bible,..its a fundamental issue.. unfortunately the problem in our country is muslims who are minority are the majority in rest of the world. and with people like shiv sena , narendra modi who else wont get annoyed?? i am an unbiased person and i get pissed when i see look at their actions. the friction is never going to reduce.. it will only increase as time goes by...
Re: Re: My Dear Harish
by Muthu Karuppan on May 13, 2010 08:06 PM
WHAT WERE U DOING when that bugger karunandhi said "Hindu yendrale thirudan" [hindus are thieves]? Go and piss on his face first if you do not tolerate bias. Modi & shivsena exist because of people like your favorite MKs.
Re: Re: Re: My Dear Harish
by purush on May 13, 2010 08:20 PM
Did i ever tell u that i hail Karunanidhi? or he is my leader or something? Karuna is no saint. besides why do u get pissed when a Hindu like Karuna speaks rationale?
Re: Re: Re: My Dear Harish
by purush on May 13, 2010 08:49 PM
You get provoked when Karuna just tells things. he is just saying some bullshit. But Shiv sena and Modi will do it. what happened in Gujarat as purely a mass genocide in the 19th century. By the way are u a thief?? :)
Re: My Dear Harish
by Shesh Lak on May 13, 2010 07:53 PM
A classy examples of religion is the rainbow, it depends from which angle you are looking at it. So is the religion, just like a line on a black board, for some it could be like a a straight line and for some it could look like number 1 and for some it might be like the english letter "l" or "I". You decide.
Men lived in caves, learnt to speak, got civilised and then started seeking identity. Religion started, all fictious characters like jesus, allah rama, what not,, started. and then the whole problem started.. Now you name the major problem in the world and the issue directly or indirectly relates back to b_l_o_o_d_y religion or a community. And the proof of it is right here in the discussion board where civilised people are fighting for their religious status. You must be ashamed.
Re: man and his religion
by Muthu Karuppan on May 13, 2010 07:27 PM
Brother! Race, Language, region etc., are also in the fray of factors that cause Division. They do create rifts among human. Please do not blame religion alone. They are sometimes worser than religion itself.
Re: Re: man and his religion
by Muthu Karuppan on May 13, 2010 07:32 PM
To Purush, How did "Race", "Language" and other slew of divisive factors came into so called human system ?
Re: Re: Re: man and his religion
by purush on May 13, 2010 07:37 PM
Race is something which u cant avoid...language yeah also justified,,, but religion, caste???? hehe,,,in our country can u give me the number of castes per religion? thats a mockery, am ashamed to say am a hindu sometimes...wouldnt that hurt a country on a whole when it comes to unity?.Am a born hindu from chennai, not a pakistani or an ISI agent or some non state actor..
Re: Re: Re: Re: man and his religion
by Muthu Karuppan on May 13, 2010 07:53 PM
Language & Race emanated same way as religion and caste. Nothing new. Every religion in this world has castes or 'divisions in some other name'. These divisions fight with each other. So don't say that you are ashamed to call yourself as follower of particular religion. If aethists treat 'human' as one then why there is a DMK & ADMK? There should be one aethist party - right?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: man and his religion
by purush on May 13, 2010 08:35 PM
the reason for USSR disintegration is totally different. They dont have the number of case, religion like we do. and thats why they are still surving. we still cant forget the way India pakistan seperated with blood shed. USSR doesnt have 1000 races and 1000 religion and 10000 subcastes so they have split and surviving. We cant afford that dude. :) heads will roll. And i am not here to promote atheism, my point is that religion does take off the harmony and peace among fellow beings.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: man and his religion
by purush on May 13, 2010 08:42 PM
yeah every religion,,which other religion apart from Hindu has so many castes..the best part is dude, we have a caste system in our education and work sections as well. ANy other place and in which any other religion is major dude?? :) I love India, but dont try to suppress the truth and hypocrite.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: man and his religion
by Muthu Karuppan on May 13, 2010 08:17 PM
Purush Thalaiva! caste system exists every where in the globe. Only names are different but concept is same. If I go by your argument why should USSR disintegrate? Just think... Aethism is a "religion" by itself in a different "bottle" that is it. To me people who criticize "India" are the biggest hypocrates.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: man and his religion
by purush on May 13, 2010 08:08 PM
hmmm,, seri. but how many castes???isnt there a limit,, have u gone through the caste system in one state atleast, leave alone a nation..India thaan pa vithilaku ithule. ofcourse am ashamed of the way hindu religion is full of lies. not that am proud of any other religion.. atleast some religion with a decent amount of truth..hehe..cmon man, u know what am talking about..ramayana mahabaratha.. Next coming to politics.. India is a land of hipocrites, i know u wont agee :) so hence a man calling himself as an atheist will not get votes.. thats why there is DMK, ADMK, MDMK and such.
Re: Re: Re: Re: man and his religion
by purush on May 13, 2010 07:46 PM
race is something like for example and African has a long, you know what i mean.. We indians have a long hair, smart brain. so you see race is something which is very unique and cant be avoided.. there are scientific reasons for this. but not RELIGION..:)
Re: Re: man and his religion
by Muthu Karuppan on May 13, 2010 07:33 PM
Aethism is also a kind of "religion" brother. It also has its "traps". It is useless
Re: Re: Re: man and his religion
by Shesh Lak on May 13, 2010 07:46 PM
Tambhi Mutthu,
Aethism means not to believe in any religion. The whole world depends on 2 basic aspects, existance and nonexistance. Truth and False hood. Whichever side you take, you will tends to believe you are with truth. You can argue on this, but again what is the point. For me Aethism means no to follow any religion, I don't know what that means to you. That's it.
Re: Re: Re: Re: man and his religion
by Muthu Karuppan on May 13, 2010 08:02 PM
Thiru Shesh, Aethism is also a type of "religion" with castes and sub-castes - OK? You have caste 1 aethist called communists, caste 2 called DMK and so on. Now do you understand ? All these fellows call religion as "fowl" and they call themselves aetheists and they do have divisions in them. I do not see anything great in them.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: man and his religion
by purush on May 13, 2010 08:14 PM
oh, so just because karunandhi is an atheist ur bringing DMK as a head of atheism is it? good joke..He is a politician thats it. And communism doesnt parallel with atheism. it parallels with Economy. therilena olarakoodathu
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: man and his religion
by Shesh Lak on May 13, 2010 08:14 PM
Muthu, It depends on how you look at it. DMK and Communism are parties. I don't belong to any one of them, for that matter I don't belong to any ghetto at all.
Re: Re: Re: man and his religion
by purush on May 13, 2010 07:41 PM
you can say am agnostic, wouldnt call myself a pure atheist because one day RAMA might appear from the srilankan bridge with monkeys or allah might come and spank me or jesus might show is big long hairstyle..who knows?? anything can happen..but right now all this is bullshit according to me..its my personal opinion, you can be a staunch religious person, i respect it. deal?
Some people spread lies, I countered them with facts. Where does community come in here?
And the claim of Muslims (if that's what you intended) as a whole demanding pieces of India too is blatantly wrong. Pakistan demanding pieces of India is the appropriate sentence.
Re: Re: @Muthukaruppan
by Muthu Karuppan on May 13, 2010 06:20 PM
Harish - Now, I understand that you are not aware of ground realities. An open question to you - How many Indian Muslims support "India's stand on Kashmir" from the heart ?... Tell me. May be very few [like Dr. Kalam - We revere them!]. Do u now understand the crux of the problem??? You do a survey for yourself and see the result. That's why the community's name in India is maligned. If they respect India first and religion next, certainly the situation would change.
Re: Re: Re: @Muthukaruppan
by Muthu Karuppan on May 13, 2010 06:36 PM
Harish - "Hope these explanations on a 'community that demands pieces of India' should reveal some 'startling' facts to you - right? Most of the Indian News papers are run by "so-called" secularists. They don't give correct picture of "ground realities". Ground realities are bitter.
Re: Re: Plight of the Muzlim women
by Kau Chiu on May 13, 2010 05:04 PM
Muzzi is all about poly_G@mys..Thier_religion_teaches_so_tohave_many_womens_INTHEBED.
Wife is not the word for them as there is respect and apnapan in that word...so they call Meri aurat..
Re: Re: Plight of the Muzlim women
by Harish Menon on May 13, 2010 05:10 PM
Another blatant lie. The cumulative figure for official and unofficial polygamy is far higher for Hindus than for Muslims in India.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Plight of the Muzlim women
by Harish Menon on May 13, 2010 05:13 PM
Well, going by your name Kau Chiu (For god's sake, what kind of a name is that?) you must be Manchuria!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Plight of the Muzlim women
by Muthu Karuppan on May 13, 2010 06:15 PM
Harish - Now, I understand that you are not aware of ground realities. An open question to you - How many Indian Muslims support "India's stand on Kashmir" from the heart ?... Tell me. May be very few [like Dr. Kalam]. Do u now understand the crux of the problem??? You do a survey for yourself and see the result. That's why the community's name in India is maligned. If they respect India first and religion next, certainly the situation would change.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Plight of the Muzlim women
by Muthu Karuppan on May 13, 2010 06:03 PM
Harish, if something is written about a community that demands "pieces of India", why are u worried? Why do u want to antagonize with those messages?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Plight of the Muzlim women
by Muthu Karuppan on May 13, 2010 05:38 PM
Harish, Any form of terrorism should be condemned. Especially in the name of religion.... Going against one's own nation in the name of religion is simply unacceptable. Till separatists exist "right wings" have to exist. This is natural... Just think... "when did Kashmir problem start and when did BJP came to existence". You will know the reason behind right wingism. Hope you understand....
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Plight of the Muzlim women
by Kau Chiu on May 13, 2010 05:17 PM
You have to go to school to know meaning..just don't go to madarasa..
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Plight of the Muzlim women
by Kau Chiu on May 13, 2010 05:22 PM
Good...accepted your nonsence..Now go to Indian School and learn real history..not the one written by British or the Congis..
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Plight of the Muzlim women
by Muthu Karuppan on May 13, 2010 05:29 PM
To harish, The proverb "Kallanu Saakshi Kazhuveri!" applies to you only brother. Looks like you are a gulf-returnee from Kerala - right? Just because you earned 'gulf money' it is not correct to support "Jihad & radicalization" which has ended up in world terror. You may show your gulf loyalty by converting [rather correcting] the terrorists [read: radicals] back to Indian roots.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Plight of the Muzlim women
by Harish Menon on May 13, 2010 05:51 PM
@Muthukaruppan... I don't know why you are addressing all that Kashmir/rightwing gyaan to me in this particular discussion. I have not made any comments on any of those topics.
Of course, if the idea is to deflect and hijack the present topic because you guys have nothing else to say then I will oblige and withdraw from the conversation.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Plight of the Muzlim women
by Harish Menon on May 13, 2010 05:49 PM
Who cares what you think dude... Making posts from Manchuria and flying kites doesn't count as patriotism!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Plight of the Muzlim women
by Harish Menon on May 13, 2010 06:02 PM
What boomerang? Are you that desperate for wisecracks?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Plight of the Muzlim women
by Harish Menon on May 13, 2010 05:18 PM
Sorry... I don';t intend to go to school just to decipher your weird online name... no least interested in it you know...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Plight of the Muzlim women
by Harish Menon on May 13, 2010 06:08 PM
Some people spread lies, I countered them with facts. Where does community come in here?
And the claim of Muslims (if that's what you intended) demanding pieces of India too is wrong. Pakistan demanding pieces of India is the appropriate sentence.
Re: Re: Re: Plight of the Muzlim women
by Shesh Lak on May 13, 2010 07:17 PM
Stop it Mr. Menon. It is better to look at the percentage of the polygamy. And tell me something, did you go home to home to do the census or survey on this. Do try to self proclaimed master of everything.
Re: @Arier Aries
by zxcvbnm on May 13, 2010 04:50 PM
What Aries has said is true. It is always an alarming situation when the legal and justice system is based on religious doctrines. This is true for the Izlamic countries where Sharia Law is applied. Sharia Law is based on K o r a n and H a d i t h s.
Re: Re: @Arier Aries
by Harish Menon on May 13, 2010 04:52 PM
There is a saying in Malayalam: "Kallanu Saakshi Kazhuveri!" (The rascal testifies for the thief!)
Re: Re: Re: Re: @Arier Aries
by Harish Menon on May 13, 2010 04:55 PM
And the facts as recorded globally are what I have mentioned in my previous conversation with Aries Aries, unlike the bizarre kites you are flying!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: @Arier Aries
by zxcvbnm on May 13, 2010 05:01 PM
@Harish - I am willing to listen to you. But please read the facts that has been presented. These are facts.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: @Arier Aries
by Harish Menon on May 13, 2010 05:05 PM
These are not facts my dear... these are figments of your imagination... check out any website, any international organisation or the websites of any of the countries mentioned in my previous conversation with Aries Aries. At least just browse through wikipedia.
Re: Re: Re: Re: @Arier Aries
by Harish Menon on May 13, 2010 04:57 PM
In any case, are you Aries Aries's spokesperson. My post was a direct question to him/her.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: @Arier Aries
by Harish Menon on May 13, 2010 05:32 PM
Thanks for the wrong assessment of my Malayalee status... But nope... I am not a Gelf Mallu...
And going by your imaginative speculation about my interest in Jihad & Jazz, you might as well turn up next in the "Ripley's Weirdest People" show!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: @Arier Aries
by Muthu Karuppan on May 13, 2010 05:18 PM
Looks like you are a gulf-returnee from Kerala - right? Just because you earned 'gulf money' it is not correct to support "Jihad & radicalization" which has ended up in world terror. You may show your gulf loyalty by converting the terrorists back to Indian roots.
In Kashmr valley 4,000 Kashmri H i n d u s have been massacred and 600 H i n d u temples have been destroyed. About 6,00,000 Kashmri H i n d u s have been evicted from the Kashmr valley by the Kashmri Muzlims. Most of them are living in apalling conditions in refugee camp. Please do not forget the plight of these Kashmri H i n d u s. They need our support.
