While I agree with some of Mr. Gumaste's observations, the last statement about siding with Hindus is a little ambiguous. In the first place, you cannot compare the genocides in Gujarat with the one in Bangladesh - not because Hindu lives are less important (before someone jumps accusing me of making such a statement!) - what happened in Gujarat is a clear breakdown of the Law and Order situation of a sovereign land. India is secular which means you give people the same rights and freedom irrespective of religious background. Trying to justify that with what happened however odious and unfortunate, BUT IN ANOTHER COUNTRY WHICH WAS ESSENTIALLY AN ISLAMIC MILITARY DICTATORSHIP makes no sense at all. People who make a fuss about Gujarat, do so because it is something that happened in our country, to our fellow citizens, and there, religion should not come first.
Re: To side with Hindus
by Vijayalakshmi on Apr 01, 2010 11:15 AM
Doesn't anyone have anything to say about the butchering of 4000 innocent Sikhs by congressmen in and around Delhi after the assasination of Indira Gandhi? That was not the breakdown of law and order?Is the Congress above the law of the land?Why is the Congress party and its supporters practising double standards? All the people cannot be fooled all the time.Votebank politics of the Congress has reached dangerous levels. It is grossly anti-Hindu now.
Re: To side with Hindus
by bala sreenivasan on Mar 29, 2010 07:15 PM
Niranjan, please acquaint yourself with the happenings during 1921-Moplah rebellion in Kerala and the 1948 Razakkar movement in Hyderabad to know the horrors of Muslim-majority regions. U.P, MP, Gujarat, Maharashtra, Bihar had been rocked by bigger communal riots even during the Congress rule. Modi being targeted for some other reason by people on the payrolls of outside agencies out to destabilize India.
Re: To side with Hindus
by Vikram Wali on Mar 29, 2010 08:50 AM
Dear Niranjan, why did you close your eyes on Kashmir which is part of our own country. Not a single word on that !!! So, You mean...Muslim majority, be it a democracy or autocracy have the licence massacre non-muslims. Extremely disturbing !!!!
Re: Re: To side with Hindus
by Niranjan Balachandran on Mar 29, 2010 08:17 PM
Dear Vikram, the trouble with the Kashmir situation is because it is largely fomented by our "beloved" neighbor. I again emphasize - it is not something that Indian muslims have done by themselves. Of course, there have been many terrorists from our citizenry too but that is not the same as the government taking no action. I hope the distinction between the two is clear. It is one thing about individuals being miscreants and a totally different thing if the government has turned a blind eye which very much was the case in Gujarat.
Dear Bala Srinivasan, I am a resident of Hyd and I know pretty well the consequences and horrors of the Razakkar movement since I know a few people who lost relatives during that heinous period. But my point remains the same: The Indian government was not responsible for the massacre. Moreover, that was a politically turbulent time when information did not reach other corners of India that quickly. Third, the moment Patel got wind of the movement, the Army squashed everything within 24 hrs. I don't think that our army cannot handle rioting mobs and shush them; they have handled far worse.
My point seems to have been unclear completely: A government cannot take the attitude of one citizen and in our case (since we are secular) the attitude of one community at the cost of another.
Re: Re: Re: To side with Hindus
by Salvador Ramirez on Mar 29, 2010 08:56 PM
So you want to say Kashmiri muslims have not done any killings, one things that makes you secularists blind and to actually say 'liberal fascists' is that you are clearly forgetting Kashmiri muslims were always giving a full support to these killings( provided you consider them Indian muslims obviously ), so then we can also exempt Gujarati Hindus from the riots, another thing, while almost no muslim died in Kashmiri exodus, many Hindus had to give up their life in Gujarat riots, obviously forgotten by our secular evangelist and Gulf owned media.
Re: Re: Re: Re: To side with Hindus
by Niranjan Balachandran on Mar 29, 2010 09:58 PM
Mr Ramirez, I am not in support of any miscreant Hindu, Muslim, Christian, or Atheist, not did I ever make such an outrageous claim! (Further, you bit of fact of no muslim deaths in Kashmir is factually incorrect.)I am however not in favor of a GOVERNMENT THAT DOES NOT DO WHAT IS IT'S DUTY, and the fact that there was utter negligence by the government there is a clear breakdown of law and order. It is indeed inconsistent that you are so vociferously against breakdown of law and order in say Bihar but not in Gujarat, considering that there was a massacre there.
You seem to be under a belief that I condone or do not care about the killings of Hindus and it is unfortunate that my words expressing my sorrow at these events seem to have fallen on deaf ears.
If we wish to fight for the cause of Hindus in say, Bangladesh or Pakistan, it is NOT by doing to muslims in India what those scum do to Hindus there! Take up the issue on an international front; let our somnolent media that has time for trivialities like Aishwarya Rai's favorite colour, address real issues like this!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: To side with Hindus
by Vijayalakshmi on Apr 01, 2010 11:52 AM
If it was a massacre of muslims in Gujarat, how come some 250 hindus also died in that violence?Do you have an answer for that Mr.Niranjan?The problem with most 'educated' Indians is that they have been watching the foreign-funded Nation Damaging TeleVision to much.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: To side with Hindus
by sanaatan on Mar 30, 2010 01:00 AM
You are assuming that muslim countries are doing out of ignorance. It is not ignorance.It is deliberate attempt to follow theocracy.It is an ideology.Secondly, Hindu representation is minority in the world. You need votes to take up in international community.If everything can be solved by logic and debate, there is no need for military.All countries are spending billions in defense.They know that power is the ultimate to defend your ideology.We are not doing tit-for-tat to answer hindu genocides in other countries.It is an effort for survival.We are defending ourselves from extermination.We are fighting anti-nationalism in Muslims in the garb of religion. Secularism is for tolerant religions and not for predatory/violent religions.If you allow,tolerant religion will be exterminated.You asking for the rights of a ruthless hunter. If hunter gets his rights, he will kill all animals.If a criminal gets rights/freedom, he will make everyone criminal.The cause of hindu violence is not in their books.They are reacting to injustice. Remember that Hindus are minority with respect to xtians and Muslims in the whole world.International community is not secular.The logic you applied in favour of Muslims also applies to Hindus in international community.UN talks of secularism bu there is lot of hypocrisy.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: To side with Hindus
by Vijayalakshmi on Apr 01, 2010 12:02 PM
To treat Muslims and christians as 'minorities' is a great injustice to hindus in general.BJP cannot and should not be indifferent to this arbitrary classification and allotment of special funds from our tax money for those dominant communities.It is suicidal for this nation.
Re: Re: Re: To side with Hindus
by virat v on Mar 30, 2010 02:01 AM
niranjan. then also b sure that during maharashtra riots of 1993, the cong govt was spectator n doing literally nothing. cant this b stated as state sponsored one?
Re: Re: To side with Hindus
by Vijayalakshmi on Apr 01, 2010 11:32 AM
Now Congress Govt through the Ministry for Minority Affairs has 'identified'muslim majority areas for development,and allotted Rs3500 crores for the purpose.Is it not discriminatory against the rest of the poor in India?So our tax money is being diverted for developing the muslim majority areas to get us killed in case of a communal skirmish, when they will invariably unite.Is this not a dangerous move by the Congress?
Re: To side with Hindus
by virat v on Mar 30, 2010 01:59 AM
niranjan. its all media created image of so-called state sponsored this n that. nothing like that happened. in fact, its media that purposely hid the fact of hindu casualties in 2002 riots in guj. y so? they didnt highlight the plight of train passengers. y so? they only presented one side of the story. y so?
bcoz, media doesnt want to listen to the other side of story at all.
Re: Re: To side with Hindus
by Niranjan Balachandran on Mar 30, 2010 03:42 AM
Dear Virat, thanks for getting my overall point. I strongly believe that the Congress party and their hoods are guilty as hell for their negligence of law and order on umpteen occasions, most prominently in the backlash at the Sikh community after Indira Gandhi's assassination.
The Gujarat govt. need not have actively participated in the riots (I think we, the common public, will never know the real story) but not acting on time when there was news of marauding mobs makes them abetting of the inhuman crimes that took place. Anyway, that was my drift, and I shall leave it at that.
Re: Re: To side with Hindus
by Vijayalakshmi on Apr 01, 2010 11:40 AM
Recently, lumpen loud-mouth Congress spokesman Manish Tiwari had the audacity to liken Narendra Modi to Dawood Ibrahim!This party and its leadership has sunk too low.See how they are behaving with Big B.Congress has become fascist like the CPIM, and so undesirable for democracy.
Great article by Vivek. He nailed it by stating "To side with Hindus even if they are right is akin to blasphemy in the vaunted circles of the free Indian media." Another classic example of the same is Khalistani-Terrorism and Post-Indira riots. There are dozens of Sajjan Singhs (i.e., Mostly Akali Dal, Congress , Akal Takht, and SGPC leaders who played Sajjan Kumar like role in Khalistani-terrorism ) still enjoying political power in punjab. Sajjan Singhs are above the law (i.e., no court case, no arrest warrant, no media demonization). For example: 1) Jagjit Singh Chauhan, who was the leader of dreaded Khalistani Commando force and Khalistani terrorism's public face on BBC, never faced any charges or media fury until he passed away in Hoshiarpur District of Punjab in 2007.
2) Above the law: Ranjit Singh while doing time in tihar jail was elected as Jathedar of Akal Takht (i.e., Occupier of the Highest Seat of Sikh Religion and Supreme Leader of all sikhs). Immediately, He was released on bail pending his appeal against conviction. When bail was challenged in high-court, President K.R. Narayanan signed the order commuting the remainder of his life sentence for the 1980 murder of Baba Gurbachan Singh.
Even i was totally concerned about these genocides once....But after seeing the indian army aiding for the genocide of my TAMIL brothers and sisters in srilanka..Now i dont care if the pakis raid the whole north india.One day or the other day the freedom will be achieved...
Re: ....
by Ravindra Kumar on Mar 28, 2010 06:49 PM
I donot quite quite know what indian army did or did notdo. But I agree that entire rajiv gandhi trip was mananged by cngrssi chamcha with no knowledge of Tamil-sinhalese conflict.
But that is past, I am hopeful that Tamils and Tamil hindus should be able to build a pluralistic society polity, and I am sure Indian hindus will be with Tamils cause.
But you can only blame Tamil leaders in TN and not entire Hindus
Re: ....
by Chelvarajan Sethukavalar on Mar 28, 2010 11:35 AM
Yes it is very funny to see some Tamils here trying to justify the Indian governments action im Eelam. They do not realise that what they Indian governmet did to the Eelam Tamils is a bad reflection on them and the esteem and respect the Indian government gives to them and thier feelings and not on the Eelam Tamils. The Indian government respected the Bengali Hindus feelings and liberated the largely Msulim east Bengla/east Pakistan nwo Bangladesh. HWihc does nto seem to be very grateful. However it totally disragred the feelings and wishes of most Indian Tamils and went out of its way to help the SInhalese. This started with Rajiv Gandhi. The largely Punjabi/Gurkah IpkF was sent to supress teh Eelam Tamils on guise of peace keeping. They killed aroudn 10000 Tamisl civilians. Raped so many females and looted and destroyed so many home sand businesses. It is very well documented and no one can deny This is why the LTTE rose against them. What happened in teh Vanni with aorund 40000 dead and aroudn 300000 locked up in Nazi concentration camps. 100000 are stil there and the rest of the IDPs have been left destitute to fend for themsleves. Whils the Sri Lankan governme is spending large amounts of money building Buddhist Viharas inmany destroyed HIndu temples. LTTE tombs and cemetries arebeing desicrated and Viharas are being built. Al lthis would not have happended withoutthe neighbouring country's help and blessing. Many diplomats were travelling to Colombo aroud this time.
We Eelam Tamil Hindus will not forget our genoicde and ethnic cleansing and the country which aided and abetted this genocide and is still protecting the Sri Lankan government. Yo may forget but wewil lnever forget. It looks like only certain people Hindus qualify to be HIndus.
Re: We Eelam Tamil Hindu will not forget our genocide
by bala sreenivasan on Mar 27, 2010 08:16 PM
Your problem is slightly different I do have my sympathies for the Lankan Tamils, but you people never ever identified yourselves as Hindus, but Tamils. You were persecuted not because you were Hindus, but because you were Tamils. You were caught between Lankan Govt. and a terrorist outfit which annihilated more Tamils than even the Lankan army. Every well-meaning Indian initiative was systematically shot down by LTTE
Re: Re: We Eelam Tamil Hindu will not forget our genocide
by SivaSankaran Sarma on Mar 28, 2010 06:15 AM
ALways lots of excuses justify the aidding and abetting of the Eelam Tamils. The Ltte,You were discriminated because you were Tamils and not Hindus. These lame excuses do not hold. Genocide is genocide and aiding and abetting genocide is also a war crime. SO what if we identified ourselves as Tamils,is that a crime. We are Tamils not Chinese or Bengalis or Punjabis or what ever. From your name I presume you are also a Tamil, so what do you identify yourslef first as a Tamil and then a Hindu like everyone else. eg an Englisman will first say Iam English and then I am an Anglican , Methodist,Catholic Buddhist ,Drude or Agnostic. Similarly A Punjabi identifies himeself as Punjabi first then as a Muslim, Sikh or Hindu. During the Bangladesh crisis all Bengalis were discriminatd but the Hindu Bengalis more as they belonged to a different religion. THey were not specifically selected for more discrimination as they were Hindus but because they were Bangalis and then Hindus. So why arnt the largley SOuth Indian origin Tamil Muslims or Sri Lankan Morrs being discriminated. Infact they are the copartners of the Sinhalese in their genocidal game agiasnt the indigenous largely Hindu Tamils. After Sanskrit the language that contributed most to Hindusim is Tamil. The Tamil culture is deeply identified with HInduism. That is why the Sinhalese destroy Hindu temples in the Tamil north east. as destroying Hindusism is destroying Tamil. Just like Buddhism is identified with Sinhala contd
Re: Re: Re: We Eelam Tamil Hindu will not forget our genocide
by SivaSankaran Sarma on Mar 28, 2010 07:13 AM
As for the LTTE killing thousands of Tamil civilialns it is another lie as one British journalist stated in the Daily tlegraph . 99% of the atrocities were comitted by the Sri Lankan armed forces and their allied paramiltaires and 99% of ther victimes were innocent Tamil civilians. Yo cannot kill thousands of Tamil Civiliasn and then have gaisn thier support too. SO the LTTe is not there so who killed aroudn 40000 Tamil cvilians in teh Vanii ( a sthe Un has now reluctantly admitted) and who imprisoned more than 300000 Tamils in teh Vanni in Nazi concentration camps. The LTTE . TheLTTE may have made mistakes however they were not commiting ethnic cleansingand genocide on anyone. They came inot being because of Sinhalese racism and they became brutal due to What the Sinhalese did to the Tamil civilans.
Re: Re: We Eelam Tamil Hindu will not forget our genocide
by Chelvarajan Sethukavalar on Mar 28, 2010 10:42 AM
I am in a dilamma as per your comments it was ok to kill us as we were Tamils. However it would not have been ok to commit genocide on us if were were Hindus. As it would have been a crime. However around 80 to 85% of the indigenous Eelam Tamisl are Hindus. so where do they stand? As per your argument if they say that they are Tamils it is one story and if they sate that they are Hindus it is another story . Then if they say that they are Tamils Hindus then what is their position? Then what happens to the Christian Eelam Tamils who make up around 15 to 20% of the population . Is it ok to commit genocide on them as they are only Tamils and not Hindus? What about you. You are a Hindu Tamil Brahmin whom the Sinhaese hate most. SO if you were born in to a Tamil Brahmin family around 20 or 30 kilometers to the south east of Tamil Nadu in the Jaffna or Vani region what would your position be? Would it have been of just to have your fellow Tamils in Tamil nadu just being sympathetic or indifferent to your plight but very voiciferous about what was happening to the Hindus in Bangladesh Pakistan and Kashmir? You donmt seem to be bothered about what happened to your fellwo Tamil brothres and sisters across the sea but seem to be very concerned about every one else. Whilse many of these North Indian Hindus just rejoiced and commented nasty things over what happened in Eelam. They are concerned about their own kindred. So remeber charity begins at home. First look after your own
Re: Re: Re: We Eelam Tamil Hindu will not forget our genocide
by bala sreenivasan on Mar 29, 2010 07:04 PM
Not many Srilankan Tamils seem to remember that LTTE was against IPKF and went to the extent of issuing a statement wherein they stated they had no issues with Sinhalese, their brothers and asked India to stay away! I amnot so heartless as not to sympathise with the Tamils of Sri Lanka, but there is very little we can do other than issuing blood-curdling statements like Tirumaa,Veeramani,Vaiko, Subaveerapandian or Nedumaran
Re: Re: Re: We Eelam Tamil Hindu will not forget our genocide
by bala sreenivasan on Mar 29, 2010 06:55 PM
Dear Thiru.Sethukavalar, I think you have not understood my message. I have the greatest sympathy for Tamil language, its rich heritage and people.At the outset, I had mentioned it in my posting. But the fact is the island's Tamil movement had been hijacked by LTTE and its self-centered, ungrateful and cold-blooded leadership. No other country could have supported the Lankan Tamils so much as successive India Govt.s right from the days of Indira Gandhi and later, her son. LTTE was a stumbling block and it systematically sabotaged all well-meaning Indian initiatives. It bumped off all eminentleaders from other Tamil outfits starting from Laxman Kadirkamar, Amritalingam and the likes. LTTE wanted to project itself as the sole representative of the Lankan Tamils but thoughtlessly stung the very hands that fed it.The best thing that India could do was throwing the borders open and accommodating Tamil refugees in camps in our soil which it has done. But waging a war against a sovereign state would have only strengthened the hands of a terrorist outfit which did not have an iota of respect or concern for democracy, let alone India. As a proud,die-hard Hindu, it is doubtful if I would have been happy had India waged a war with Pakistan to save Hindus in that country. Encouraging a terrorist organization- directly or indirectly will harm the interests of our nation in the long run and will invite hostile reaction from the world at large which will have serious ramifications.
