There is a big effort to make India a Christian country by 2040. After the Government of India, the Roman Catholic Church is largest land holder in India and is the richest. Since British Times, they had tried to convert people of India. Recently the congress government has changed the national symbols on coins (Ashoka's) and changed it to a CROSS. What does it mean? The Congress government has removed Janmasthamai and Ramanavami from the list of National holidays. Still most Hindus will vote the Italian Government in power. Jago Hindus Jago.
Re: Conversion
by varghese on Apr 22, 2010 09:48 AM
people convert because of many reason chief being to get self respect and recognization from fellow human beings..second being socio economic..third being personal matter..most of the people who convert want an better way of life..who wants to be treated like an low caste..Christianity breaks all karmic cycles..who wants to be re-born as an dog or pig..then poverty..why should anyone want to wallow in depression and supresion because of lack of food clothing and shelter..specially when Christians are around they share with these under privileged so why not convert.
infact there would be little reason to convert if fellow brothers of the same community put their hands into their pockets and help these under privileged..lots also needs to be done by abolishing caste systems which exploits fellow humans on basis of caste,color,and the kind..
no where else in the world u find people discriminating their own fellow brothers like this..
Re: Re: Conversion
by Vivek Singh on Apr 22, 2010 10:23 AM
Tribals are converting only when they are shown green bucks. Most of the converts are Christians only for the money.
If you logic is to hold good, why are the people not converting to Buddhism or Jainism? Any answers.
Re: Re: Re: Conversion
by varghese on Apr 22, 2010 10:29 AM
the People who convert know pretty well which religion to convert..lol..they convert to the best..so hope u got the answer..do not think that the tribals or converts are soo naive to convert to something inferior to their present conditions..they simply select the best and if they are not satisfied they re-convert or select another which suits their life..that's their choice..
Re: Re: Re: Re: Conversion
by JGN on Apr 22, 2010 11:06 AM
varghese, after reading Dr.Jesme'sB00k, I did not think that xtianity is the best!!! Nor after the unsavory episode at PiousXC0nvent. Do you have anything better to show?
Re: Re: Conversion
by Ramanath Babu on Apr 22, 2010 10:26 AM
Your all arguments in favour of conversion are hollow. Even after conversion a dalit is considered inferior human being in christian society. Hinduism is not merely a religion, but a way of life. Unlike other relions, it is not superflous. It doesn't look things from outside, but the whole life and the system of entire universe very deeply. The wisdom of our saints pointed out that the soul and boy are different, and what you see on the mirror is not exactly you. spirituality as far as Hinduism is concerned the quest to know and get the answer to the qeustion of 'WHO AM I'. Whether one like it or not, one has to take birth pig or a dog, according to the Karma. When Hinduism says there is nothing in this world, except GOD, and every other things are mere MAYA, what is the essence of such a realization? Those who believe that God has created men and everything on this earth is also created for him, and he should use and enjoy eveything in this world, such people will not be able to identify the sould within them, which is nothing but ISHWAR/GOD only.
Re: Re: Re: Conversion
by varghese on Apr 22, 2010 10:38 AM
Babu millions of Indians convert from this way of life to an proper established religion called Christianity each year this simply means my statement is an fact..
if Hinduism is an way of life as u say then let me say this way of life is not liked by the low castes who account for more than 80% of Hindus..because this is simply de-meaning to them..
I needn't emphasize the treatment meted out to these low castes by the so called upper caste the exploitation on basis of Varnas and the kind of wisdom by these so called wise men of this way of life..
people simply are fed up of these tall talks and wise talks they just want to live an decent life this is simply not their cup of tea..they hence seek an better life here as well as in the futre..Christianity offers both..this is enticing as well as within hands grip so millions convert..there is nothing wrong in conversion its an matter of choice..choose for the best..
Re: Re: Re: Re: Conversion
by Ramanath Babu on Apr 22, 2010 10:49 AM
Those who know Hinduism well, are aware that although we created four varnas, castes and sub-castes there were no discrimination in the beginning. Vested interests started the discrimination and social evils like untouchability came later on. Now the upper caste hindus realized this folly and they treat their brothern on equal footing, but it is the christian people who are now showing this upper caste mentality. They treat the converted dalits with contempt. One of my friends who is a devoted christian was commenting on a Social worker and big money bag of our area, who happened to be an Ezhava that, "so what if he has money, after all he is an ezhava. They were not allowed to enter into our compound in Kerala. Others may salute him because of his money power, but I will never do to that to an ezhava" These were the words of a devote christian friend, who was in the forefront of building a church in our area. If such is the mentality of a christian, why they are pointing fingers on hindus? Hindus make comments on other religion after studying it a bit and comparing it, whereas for the most of the christians 'Bhagavat Gita' or Quran are forebidden.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Conversion
by dudehere on Apr 22, 2010 10:41 AM
rligion is personnel if a rligion is established! that means its nothin but a business! and should i talk about the crusades and how many people where ki113d in that the witch hunt and the extermination of aboriginals? and we are also seein the better life in african countries!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Conversion
by JGN on Apr 22, 2010 10:54 AM
varghese, there is no fun in the Xtian heaven; the right place to be in is the fun-fi11ed 1zlamic paradiiiise. Michael Jackson converrrted a few days before his death as he was not satisfied with m0lesting all those young b0ys on planet earth. We wanted his share of hair1ess b0ys (28 of them!!!!) in the Paradiiise also!!!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Conversion
by Shivamogga on Apr 22, 2010 10:41 AM
Then why is Church shouting and wailing from roof tops to allocate reservation for dalit, SC, ST converts to Christianity (Churchianity)??
Re: Re: Conversion
by GARY on Apr 22, 2010 10:44 AM
Verghese, discrimination is there across the globe. Nowhere will u find the perfect society. Tell me are all the people in this world rich??
Re: Re: Re: Conversion
by GARY on Apr 22, 2010 10:47 AM
I am a Christian, and i do not agree with what u have said. India may not be the most perfect society but it is better than many. Tell me is the US or the UK or even the Arab world the perfect societies??
Once the forest habitat is dDestroyed for few decades, it cannot be recovered. Tribal lifestyle/livelihood cannot be recovered.
For example, the mining people are aready give huge money to all levels and some compensation to few tribals. Once the resource is sucked in few decades, the tribal cannot be rehabited and they become dependent and LANDLESS POOR.
They become landless labour on mercy of big money poachers. This is not how it should be.
Let Government not become poacher or support poacher with money transfer to unsettle tribal life. The money that Missionaris/moaist/naxals/jihadis/NGO etc distribute and recruits tribals for their CAUSE also unsettles tribal life.
Same with agriculture, once there is rampant conversion of tribal land to Agri, the ecological damage is done (floods/draught) and tribal natural lifestyle has been altered. It cannot be recovered after few decades after tribals become landless labour and most of them become servants to the poachers.
Even Mininig leaves barren lands and urbanize scenario. The damage they do is far deeper that the profits they make for few decades.
It is called Neo-Zamindari.
Tribals cannot be destroyed by crumbs for few of them OR Money transfer scams/schemes that alters their natural habitat and lifestyle.
Government can ensure from outside(not intruding) that tribal are healthy, dont go extinct like Andamans-nicobars via tsunami/epidemic/poaching OR dont overpopulate beyond their natural means i
Re: Tribals cannot be destroyed by crumbs for few and Money trans
by E darwin on Apr 22, 2010 08:19 AM
Government can ensure from outside(not intruding) that tribal are healthy, dont go extinct like Andamans-nicobars via tsunami/epidemic/poaching OR dont overpopulate beyond their natural means in forest to support them. The tribals know the natural ways to maintian population as long we monitor and open their communication channels with bigger tribal community in East-Central india that has not been poached yet. Tribals also migrate within tribal lands, BUT LEAVE SOME LANDS FOR TRIBAL (away from this civilizing 'developmental pills' ) TO MOVE AROUND.
Tribal told me in mixed language from Shadool area " aghar unhoooney resources deplete khaar dheey, it would be very late for tribals to recover.
tribals lands go for ngo, government, commerce, missionary, mining, agri, etc. Jhab vooha acquire khaar lheey, it would be very late for displaced-relocated tribals to rehabitate .. " He said, how long these crumbs last us when we want us to live the way we lived for centuries. -- Enviroment tax should be there on urban and rural areas for the FRESH air we have on our forest lands,
Forest prevent the cycle of floods/draught as well.
Re: Tribals cannot be destroyed by crumbs for few and Money trans
by E darwin on Apr 22, 2010 08:20 AM
we should agree as Tribals do on reforestation to get our nation back, such process will bring our draught lands into forest, bring flood lands to forest, mine lands into forest, poached/un-poached villages/urban/missionary/madarsa/NGO/government lands into forest where Tribal lived/danced happily.
Once tribals who became urban and agriculural labour/owners learn to be tribals again of forest that we lost and we become who were. We will learn to live happy without modernization, technology, equipments and be happy again.
Forest can give us wild vegetables, bunch of wild & sweet potato, beans, fruits and so much more.. That is very sufficient for us tribals to survive. We dont need crops, big markets, traders and machines and extorionist and money supply banks and all that urban/rural setup that "development pill" promises or provides.
We dont need schools, trucks, cars, fridge, currency/cash(for/from extortionist/lurers), etc. The less, the better.
We just want Government(beaurocracy/politician/development pills), poachers(industrialist/miners/etc) and idealogist( maoist/naxals/missionaries/jihadis/NGOs/etc) to be out of our Tribal lands of today and reclaimed ones.
Enviroment fraction tax can give sufficient funds to security forces (seated outside our lands) to protect us from poachers, idealogist and government.
