Only those countries, societies, religions, sects and families could come out of poverty who have controlled their population and have invested in formal secular education. Those who failed to do so are still poor. These days it has become cliche to speak of Sachhar Commission report and blame state discrimination for the backwardness of muslim community in India. But what about the steps taken by muslim community for its own development? Muslim organisations get billions of petro dollars as charity so where has all this money gone? This entire money has gone in spreading wahabi theology rather than developing formal education for muslims and spreading the importance of population control. If only Mr. Sachhar would have spoken to hindus to find out their reasons for development, he would have found that most of the hindus who have succeeded have done so not because of government help but inspite of government indifference. They fought this indifference by heavily investing in formal education and controlling their family size. Those hindus who could not do so are poor. For the sake of argument we take the point that there is discrimination against muslims in education sector but then what about population control? there is no discrimination there and government is going all out to woo people for population control but are muslims doing that? Answer is no. It is high time that muslim families start investing in formal education and in controlling population.
Re: Poverty , Population & Education
by Asif Ali on Nov 07, 2009 02:38 PM
Dev WE all know what happening around us is not due to muslims, its RSS in india and Mosad working entire globe to defame islam.
we also knows that we have to take major steps, that nobody will listen or implement Sachchars report, on otherhand NANAVATI commission given clean chit to modi, that will implement soon.
as for population concern, you need to do study well, the current population of both major religion and the population in 1947. then you will find muslims are controlling but non muslims are incresing vastly.
Muslims cant do anything untill the policymaker are chaddiwalas everwhere. they are discriminated in education, jobs and in market, hence, at least we must learn our religious education to provide the good citizen to the nation !
Re: Re: Poverty , Population & Education
by aryamihir dev on Nov 07, 2009 05:31 PM
Asif you are factually wrong in your arguments. At the time of independence population of muslims in India was approx. 10% (of 40 crores)which is now approx 15%(of 1.2 billion)so in absolute numbers muslim population has grown approx by 4times which is not the case with others.while the population of minorities in Pakistan at the time of independence was 25% which is now 5%. So I hope you can understand where discrimination is. Had there been discrimination then muslim population would not have gone up rather it should have gone down. Should I give you an ripe example of discrimination then just look at J&k only state with majority of the muslim population and see there the condition of hindus. That is what is called discrimination. Hindus cannot live there, forget about jobs and education. Kasahmiri hindus don't even have the luxury of any report/commission for their resettlement and development.
Re: Re: Re: Poverty , Population & Education
by Asif Ali on Nov 07, 2009 06:51 PM
Hi arya thanks for reply in nice manner, whether i accept or not but i like you style.
Aryan, Of course muslims popu are really incresing, but compair to majority, rate is low.
The minority in pakistan is nothing to do, we all know what happened when hindus coming to india and muslims to pak. Post dividition, the hindus in pak continues moved to india specially sikhs and sindhis, whatever reason behind.
You must know one thing that many pakistani hindu farmers had their land in india, then thy also migrated to india, hence, the minorities keep reducing.
1.2b is a total muslims population around the globe, while, 1 bn hindus are there in India, rest nations yet not included. It proves the growth rate of hindu is high than muslims. you just hue and cry on muslims, and easily blaiming us.
as for kashmir muslim majority concern, Pandits took out by Governer Jagmohan and remains only muslim then army killed more than 1 lac muslim youths, i have personally visited during my DAWA program to JK, found, mostly homes, three to four females was there, all was widows and raped many times. you talk on descrimination.
Pundits will be restore there, but the moment they are safe.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Poverty , Population & Education
by ratnajayant gudavally on Nov 08, 2009 06:49 AM
How about taking back Sindhis ,Punjabis and restoring their prperties and rigts to them....the minorities.
After that why wont the minorities be settled and get more benefits.... still better and produce more children ???
compensate those who had to eave everything in Pak and were haunded to India
Be happy Indian minorities of Pak have not been hounded the way Sindhis, pujabis and Pandits etc., ....many christians were killed or converted why not correct the things in ak ? first and then exect etter things for the already enjoying Muslim population wuith more and more children ???(More Productive Indian Muslim minority )
Re: Re: Re: Re: Poverty , Population & Education
by secret on Nov 08, 2009 12:35 AM
Asif Ali, first learn to read the posts properly. Dev has said muslims in India being 15% of 1.2 billion. (Over 150 million.)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Poverty , Population & Education
by secret on Nov 08, 2009 12:40 AM
Muslims in India have grown over 4 times whereas Hindus in India have grown less than 3 times. Don't confuse Muslim growth in India with that worldwide.
Re: Re: Poverty , Population & Education
by dev anand on Nov 07, 2009 04:03 PM
Dear Asif,
It is just futile to blame the STATE for the position of the Muslims. But just use your logic and you will have to contend that the Muslims are so steadfast on some outdated dogmas and have never bothered to change with the times. If you say that funds(or lack of it) are the problems facing the Muslim community, you are totally wrong. The same problems faced by the Indian Muslims are faced by all Muslims all over the globe. Saudi Arabia has billions and billions of petro-dollars in its treasury. But can you name a Good Educational Institution of global repute in that country? The reason for this plight of the Muslim community is their outright rejection of modern principles and modern education. Similar is the case with Pakistan. Saudi and Pakistan are Muslim nations, but almost the same problems faced by Indian Muslims are faced in both these countries. One can imagine the plight of Saudi once the last drop of oil is also used from their land. Till now they depended heavily on imported labour for anything from cleaning toilets to accounting and health care. The youth of these countries are just send to the madrassas and made to imbibe excess of hatred and chauvanistic feelings in religion.
Probably an exception to this sort of Islam nation could be Turkey. And the answer lies in the way the society has accepted the 20th century. Turkey has many opportunities for its youth and they do not lead a madrassa education system, but more of a modern system.
Re: Re: Re: Poverty , Population & Education
by dev anand on Nov 07, 2009 04:08 PM
It would be in your own interest and the interest of the Muslim communities to acknowledge the fact that it is time to change if you are to find place in a world with confidence. If not, you can keep on cribbing about RSS/BJP, Mosad, USA, Israel and so on.
At the same time you keep on forgetting the non-tolerant attitude of some Muslims, not blaming all. Political Parties and organizations like NDF are not exhibiting child-like innocence. They are as much communal as any other communal outfit.
Re: Re: Poverty , Population & Education
by Viswanadh Vemuru on Nov 07, 2009 04:20 PM
Dear Mr. Asif Ali, come out of the habit of blaming others for the plight of Muslims all over the world. You have chaddiwals in INDIA, but your position in INDIA is better than any one outside this Country. It is for the reason that we INDIANS, read in proper perspective, do believe in living together with others, but this is totally lacking in Muslim Community. That is the bane of that community. They do not believe in co-existance, see the whole world. The deeds of Muslim invaders are the reason for their plight all over the world. They are yet to learn to live in peace. It takes some more centuries, be patient. Do not blame RSS for your Shah Bano!!
Re: Re: Poverty , Population & Education
by GODAVARTI RAmesh on Nov 07, 2009 10:43 PM
According to Asif Pandits in J&K were driven to refugee camps by Gvernor Jagmohan. Actually all these arguments are useless . Had partition been done completely with total exchange of population , we would have been saved of all this ruckus. Seperate nation was created for them but only some went and others stayed back. Does it make any sense. They also would have been happy in an Islamic pakistan.
Re: Re: Re: Poverty , Population & Education
by Indian Prince on Nov 07, 2009 11:09 PM
Well said Ramesh ... Tear out a limb and also make them stay here ... Gandhi's assasination was well deserved.
The major hurdle in the development of Muslims, as a whole, is their perception of rigidity to their religion or partly to the distorted assumptions that they infer from their religion.
An incident which I would like to share - I was talking to my friend ( a Muslim girl). the topic of conversation was about the former president A P J Abdul Kalam. Being an ardent admirer of him, I was praising him , how much instrumental he was in the defence programme of the nation and so on. Suddenly my friend interrupted me and professed that she did not admire him as much. The reason she said was that "He is not a true Muslim". I asked her to clarify. She told me a true Muslim must not remain a bachelor and it was his duty to adhere to the religious dogmas. I tried to explain that it is a personal choice of getting married or remaining unmarried. But in no way could I convince her as she was adamant. But still , I really doubt whether there indeed is such a rule that is to be adhered to by a Muslim. Either they are interpreting such things incorrectly or living in some Medieval Period.
So the real villain among the Muslims in the country is not the STATE or HINDUS, but try to have a modern outlook on the principles of freedom and nationhood of the 20-21st century.
Re: Modern education is needed.
by Ajith Nair on Nov 07, 2009 11:19 AM
She is right,APJ is not true Muslim, He read Bhagavad Gita,His Tuition Master was a Brahmin,More over He made Inda to acquire Missiles
Re: Re: Modern education is needed.
by Devdas SRK on Nov 07, 2009 12:27 PM
APJ is a great man, people respect him for his contributions , not because he does not strictly follow Islam. Please put him out of this debate. He should not be discussed on religion lines. Let us all respect him.
How long they keep repeating the Babri & Gujarat issue? Those are only reactions to the crime they did. Why they burnt train, what about the subsequent bombs that went off in the following: 1) Akshardham 2) Varanasi 3) Mumbai train & 26/11 4) Hyderabad All people died in the above incident got the same treatment and their relatives' horrible mental agony. If Muslims are peace loving people and follow quran why Pakistan is not peaceful. Violence is their attitude. There are many Khans making billions in bollywood but not supporting any muslim poor or running any educational/NGO institutions. It is your society that is villain to yourself. You people cannot co-exist. You always try to create a society within a society. This is happening throughout the history since islam born. See the oil money in gulf, but are they helping the poor muslim africans? but they eat their resources in joining hands with US but fool the world that they are against US policies and the average Muslim is brainwashed. First find the change within yourself.
Re: It is ok but...
by Devdas SRK on Nov 07, 2009 07:44 AM
I would suggest , that we should not look at this as a tit for tat case, seriously !!! there are anti social elements in every community , who are just forming a group and causing riots and bomb blasts, should the whole community be reponsible for that???? I do not think so. If there was a bomb blast in Hyderabad, it doesnot make sense killing innocent people in Gujarat.... As the muslims generally distance themselves from the terrorists, calling them they are not real muslims, it is the same here, the Hindus who have killing muslims are not real Hindus.... go check vedas and see if anything like killing innocent is mentioned... just as they say it for Quran.......
for India to be peaceful, there should not be any terrorist attacks, I know this. The stupid pakisthanis are the ones majorily behind and they get help from the 'unreal muslims' in India... once the terrorits attacks do not happen, I'm sure incidents like the Gujarat riots would never happen.(Iam not justifying the riots, I'm just suggesting how they can be prevented)
