Every sovereign state has its rights and responsibilities. At the time of war they may forget all that. That is 'adharma'. In the Mahabharata war though divine weapons that could destroy the whole world were available on both sides they did not use them. It should be a lesson to the big powers. They (Big powers) dont mind using it during wars claiming that it is a life and death activity. Declaring a regret for the act is of no value if they continue to make powerful weapons what ever be the excuse. How can a sovereign state be asked to stop making bombs when many other sovereign states are making it and adding to their arsenal. Here the problem with Pakistan is that they make it declaring it to be used. The powerful nuclear lobby created several groups and evolved several treaties to stop making nuclear weapons by new comers. Nehru, Indira etc objected to this unequal treatments. But the present Congress has moved far away from this vision and are now playing the piano for the lobby. Disgusting! Unpatriotic! Congress threw our self respect in the bay. Pakistan braved the machinations of these lobbies and acheived self respect. Why should we raise voice against them? NPT is discriminatory. It can not stop any sovereign state to make it. The principle should be 'no one should make or anyone can make it.' I congratulate Dr. Khan for his all out effort to keep his counry's self esteem high. He is a partiot. How many of our new genration leaders and scietists can rise to the lev
Re: I congratulate Dr.Khan
by venkat narayanan on Sep 03, 2009 04:10 PM
Were you expecting appreciations for this write-up when you wrote this S hit?!! you idiot.. browse the internet for info as to how this crook got the confidential info. He stole the blueprints from the European country where he was employed. He is a third rated criminal.. you are calling him a patriot.. Bull crap.. if he was a patriot and not selfish and materialistic.. why would he proliferate and expand his private network to countries which were termed as rogue nations by the entire world community..? do you have any answers to that.. I would guess not..
Is he telling the world, that it is not intended to be a miscalled Islamic nuclear bomb which was intended to be used against so called Satan America or so called kafir India. If this is true then its a betrayl to muslim world because by saying all this pakistan got money for the project. Otherwise imagine a country who cant even make a sewing needle got all the money to make a neulear device. Wow n How?
i tjhink its more of an eye wash rather than real home made facility. this man actually stole blue prints from his lab in holland to make what pak is today. he is nothing but a common thief. And he talks of india having no risk is he mad or plain stupid. his country tried to win not one but 3 wars till 1978 and went back with a bloody nose. if not for the then stupid leadership of our nation we would have had a full j&k more peaceful and an intergral part on india.
Re: self praise
by J Begud on Aug 07, 2009 11:55 AM
In addition to 3 wars with pakis, India had war with arrogant Chinese as well. So this makes me laugh: "unlike China, India had no such serious security problems ". The whole article is a fool thief's self praise.
Read a book titled 'Deception' by Adrian Levy. It has the story in all its chilling details and demonstrates the complicity of the various state and non-state actors involved.
Re: For a fuller account
by Yaqoot Mir on Aug 07, 2009 08:35 AM | Hide message
Adrian Levy? the man wreites regularly for the CIA and Mossad? so you are perfectly willing to trust an agent rather thsn AQ Kham, demostrates the bias against him and why we need to build a wall arround him to protect him till natural death. Thanks for coming out in the open as a biased and prejudiced Indian.
Re: Re: For a fuller account
by kristalsoldier on Aug 07, 2009 09:40 AM
Well...considering that your (I am assuming that you are Pakistani) Government has accepted the fact that he was running a 'black op' for stealing nuclear technology, publicly admonished by your President (Musharaff), and placed under house arrest, does not really give us an alternate option does it? And, if he indeed was innocent - as you seem to be implying - then why not issue a public statement to that effect and allow the relevant international (by this I mean the UN/ IAEA) bodies question him and confront him with the evidence that is now, for the most part, publicly available? You see the problem with folks like you is that whatever source of information we may provide will always prove to be insufficient because you cannot - and this is understandable - allow the individual that you once lionized to be shown to be nothing better than a petty thief. So, your options are - (1) either Dr. Khan was a thief acting on his own for his personal benefit or (2) his actions were sanctioned by successive governments - civilian and military - of Pakistan. Either way, you see, you are caught between a rock and a hard place. If you make a mistake, admit it. Take some flak and then move on. The more you resist, the more flak you draw - the more branded you get - the more of a pariah you become. If Pakistan learns this lesson quickly, there is no reason why things can't settle down. But, will that ever happen? Seeing responses from folks like you is quite depressing.
That was the brief to AQ Khan by the then prez of Pukiland Zulfikar Ali Bhutto!! Khan delivered thanks to the blind eye of the US administrations and the habitual contempt the WASPS have for the skills or otherwise of the professionals from the Indian Subcontinent! ( I refuse to resort to the term 'South Asian', insisted by India hating Pakistanis who have managed to get it into the lexicon)
They would loath to believe that Pakistanis could even spell ATOMIC! Their smugness(overconfidence) has come to haunt them now! Bhutto is actually on record saying that Pakistanis will eat grass but obtain nukes by hook or crook! They did achieve that thanks to covert help from China and ingenious stealing and audacious snuggling the technology from right under the noses of the Duch, Brits and the Americans!
AQ Khan is no doubt the charlatan who headed the Black market ring in Nukes, with the blessing of the ISI and Paki Army to obtain Missile technology from N.Korea and China and, money to fund the enterprise, came from cash rich spend thrift and blind Americans and Libya not to forget other OIC including Shoddy Arabia with the promise of an 'Islamic Bomb' to legitimise Wahabi Jihad designs! So what is NEW?? A pack of clever lies which A Q Khan now wants, to deflect accusations from the US
Re: Beg, Borrow or STEAL
by Prashant Rawat on Aug 07, 2009 08:19 AM
Mr Mookiah, if you thought anybody is upset that while Pakistan stole the bomb and we produced it indigenously, then you are mighty wrong! What pisses-off the Indians are the claims to the contrary! :( Anyways, the point is proliferation. Has anybody claimed that India is selling its knowledge to all and sundry, especially to other neighbours of Pakistan or China - Afghanistan, Iran, some *-istans, Mongolia, Mynmar etc? The very idea that a few nations can keep and build nuclear energy/bombs and control the others for the same is the root of all the ills and the growing danger.
Re: Re: Beg, Borrow or STEAL
by Mookiah Iyengar on Aug 07, 2009 08:58 AM
The fact still remains that India stole the material and technology and your neighbour followed suit. If there is proliferation because of your neighbour, you also bear the responsibilty as much as the world community.I am not condoning what your neighbour does. Your arguement about your neighbour and its proliferation efforts and your country's good record on this is not a cause for cheer. A judge will not reward a thief for not taeching the tecnnique of thievery to others. The big powers you mentioned, have both technolgy and the materails. Ceratin countries like Australia , SouthAfrica etc. have both and still they do not make bombs. But your country had neither to start with. And do not have the mineral sources and still hell bent on making the bomb. If you have enough of the mineral sources and make bombs that is your prerogative and nobody can fault you. When you sign an agreement and breach it by diverting the materials for bomb making, that is dishonesty. You can call the Americans, French,Canadians and the Brits as crooks for controlling the others and yet you are the one who signed the agreements with them. A cat cannot become a tiger by painting the stripes on its body
Re: Re: Re: Beg, Borrow or STEAL
by Saibaskar Parthasarathy on Aug 14, 2009 10:20 AM
India was forced to test nuclear weapon when it was pressurized to sign NPT and again tested when it was forced to sign CTBT. NPT and CTBT were agreements that made soveriegn nations to abdict there right to have nuclear weapons there by creating a permenant uneven world. As far as reactor from Canada is concerned i dont think they gave it for free and even now all the nuclear reactors to be sold will not be sold because of any love towards India.. They took a risk because of commercial/political considerations.
Re: Beg, Borrow or STEAL
by Mookiah Iyengar on Aug 07, 2009 07:46 AM
When India stole the nuke materials given to them for peaceful energy production for bomb making, with the borrowed technology from the west (there is no such thing called indigenous technology other than the tandoori chicken, sambar, idli etc.- these technologies were not obtained from vedic scriptures) it is considered atom for peace. When the same is done by your neighbour, your neighbour becomes a cheat, criminal, and a nuclear thug. India started the clandestine, decitful activity and the rest of the nations in that region follwed suit. Learn to live with it, because you showed them the way. Unfortunately, the poverty ridden people, malnourished children and the general ignorant public do not have any say in these matters. It seems only the elite know how to save the poor and the downtrodden. Anyway, India's security is no better than waht it was in 1974.
Re: Re: Beg, Borrow or STEAL
by kristalsoldier on Aug 07, 2009 09:45 AM
Mr. Iyengar: For the record, India did not steal the technology. India reverse engineered it from the Atoms for Peace program. That is completely different from working in a top secret weapons lab and stealing the actual blueprints. Get your facts right! And, yes as Prashant mentions above, the point of the matter is that Pakistan with full government backing and with some entreprenurial enterprise shown by Dr. Khan recklessly proliferated the technology.
Re: Re: Re: Beg, Borrow or STEAL
by Mookiah Iyengar on Aug 07, 2009 11:04 AM
I do not condone what your neighbour has done. It doesn't negate what your country has done. You can call it by any neame including reverse engineeering, it is simply breach of trust. You can copy a blueprint or reverse engineer a technology, both amount to the same. In 1959, the Canadinas gave the technology and the US gave the fuel with the trust that it will be used for peaceful purpose ( read-not for bombs). In 1974, your country tested an underground device. The world community was appalled and the US stopped supplying the fuel and the US became the villain in your eyes. In 1982, Reagan administration allowed the French to supply the fuel indirectly and again with the trust. And yet again in 1998 you country basted few more devices. Again you blamed the west for not supplying the fuel materials. Please do the reverse engineering for civilaian energy need. That is pardonable. It seems the elites more interested in bomb making. No wonder after fifty years of its first reactor inception, your country still depends on the west for civilian nuclear technology.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Beg, Borrow or STEAL
by kristalsoldier on Aug 07, 2009 05:32 PM
But the point is that Pakistan did not reverse engineer nuclear technology for 'civilian use'. They specifically stole a bomb design AND the uranium enrichment process. That is theft isn't it? Also note that Pakistan has two bomb-making processes - one formerly headed by Dr. Khan - this was the enrichment process and the other us the plutonium route. If you must know, the plutonuim process was a Chinese design and it was reputed that somewhere in the late 1980s, Pakistan tested a low yield plutonium device at China's Lop Nor test range. In other words, given the clandestine way of gaining the technology, Pakistan had no choice but to test by proxy. Contrarily, India tested - even in 1974 - on her own soil and took the heat from the International Community. But as history shows us, today Pakistan is the pariah state veering dangerously close to being a failed state, which is not the case with India. Perhaps a little bit of honesty while recounting facts on your part would be warranted!
Re: Re: Beg, Borrow or STEAL
by ravisankar kalambur on Aug 07, 2009 11:41 AM
Mr.Mookiah Iyengar, have you really shown your real identity? When you donot even show your true identity in your name, How can you blame or write about others. PL show your PAN no if you are indian Or any other Identity proof for your your name.
Re: Re: Re: Beg, Borrow or STEAL
by Mookiah Iyengar on Aug 07, 2009 12:41 PM
Vow! Now I have to reveal my identity. Who said that only the people who reveal their true idntity can write about your country? Truth hurts, and that is why you are diverting the issue to my idnetity. My identity true are not is not relevant. I only care about the content of the forum and not who writes it. Kudos to the media in your country for perptuating the myth that your country does not do anything wrong and the gullibles like you beleieve them.
Re: Beg, Borrow or STEAL
by PHAM on Aug 06, 2009 09:23 PM
Any nation which operates nuclear power plants to create electricity can cause under ground nuclear explosion.No big deal.
Re: Re: Beg, Borrow or STEAL
by Ramesh Murthy on Aug 07, 2009 02:54 AM
True and I agree Not disputing at all! It is the American silence and their two faced attitude, I object to!
