I am not anti-chinese. I have many good close friends who are chinese and I do discuss this politics with them. Some facts are real facts. My previous post was removed from this blog as being abusive. It was not abusive but was written with humor and tounge-in-cheek tone. Alas people do not like humor on this blog. I believe that if nuclear deal is good for India but bad for china then china has every right to make sure that it does not happen - Pure Politics. So goes for India as well.
One should read "China Wake" to understand about Mao Regime, his descent in to depression and his rage rage at common chinese in his old age that lead to elimination of millions of chinese under disguise of "Enemy of the State". I do not see any chinese talking about his brutality, and he is still a Hero in china, but they have no problem criticizing others doing same things. Until chinese accept brutality of their leaders and what it projects to rest of the world, they will not understand fear of the others to chinese nation. People are always nice to each other in their personal interaction but leader project image of the nation and that needs to be changed to change perception from china being a bully to a good neighbor.
I also request that Rediff should reactivate my previous blog as it has done nothing but stated facts already in print by others. That is right thing to do and will have more free discussion of hostility betwenn two neighbors
Re: Rediff and Liu Ping
by Prem Chandra on Jul 30, 2010 04:42 PM
Dear Mr Rashmikant Shah Peaople should know as well as you that what Chinese say to India in meetings they donot do . They project we are peaceloving country and want peace with all neighbours but does not hold true in context of India . They try to scuttle everything what they can do , such as projects in Arunachal Pradesh in case of aid by ADB .What it pretends to be actually it is not , it sworn enemy want to destroy India by any means . There is no glimpse of friendship, neighbourly good relation as it pretends to show . Northeast all the terror group are supported by Chinese . It is silent enemy who is cutting our roots at every opportunity but posing as friend who wants to have good relations with you . One has to be careful. What is remedy for this . Nation and public have to be united and should recognise the real danger we face . Work hard , donot do diruptive strikes and bundh atleast 30 years . Let Public sector , private sector and foreign investment & companies should allowed to flourish in progrssive environment . Maost to be dealt very strictly without playing any politics and should be declared terrorists . Whosoever want to come mainstream should bewelcomed and development should start in territorry as soon as these elemnts are uprooted from the the area .Bad politician should be shown doors and no place for Lalus Paswans and Mamata should be warned . National spirit and spirit sacrifice should be generated to change BHARAT to a developed count
i'm chinese. before coming here, i never knew you indians hate china so much :) india is a great country, and it's our great neighbor. the regular chinese like me, we really don't know much about your beloved india. we should blame the leaders of the both sides, because they didn't build a tight relationship between us so far. as a chinese from a regular family, i really don't understand why we can't be good friends today? we know each other for thousands years, but we only fought once. you know what i mean?
i just googled your beloved county's name "india" in chinese. i couldn't find any negative words or negative stories about your beloved country. why? i think the reason is that either the chinese care very less about india, or the chinese never look at india as our bad neighbor, don't even mention being our enemy. as far as what i know, the 99% of chinese look at indians as our friends. i know, some chinese guys sometimes make fun of indians on the internet. trust me, they just like joking around, not only with indians, but with anybody else. one thing i'm 100% sure that they're not your enemy no.1 :)
what can i say about your guys' comments about the n-deal? well, the chinese media even did pay any attention to this deal, and i don't think we chinese really care about that. why do you indians celebrate your victory of the n-deal with china bashing? as far as i can go, if india wants to be the lap dog of the US, please go ahead, it's none of china's business.
Re: it's none of china's business.
by Prem Chandra on Jul 30, 2010 05:09 PM
Dear Colin It is not the people of China but government of China is .There are article against India in web supported by Chinese govt . To fulfill its venemous act China has supplied blue print of Atom bomb , missile etc. and propped up Pakistan against India . Like you most of Indians dont know any bad or good things about China . Yes our papers praise reforms , development and acheivements of China in good spirit .It is people like me who are intellectuls they know most of the reality . How you are concerned what China is plotting against us and same holds true with most of Indians . They will give you all love and regards which you deserve but you will come to know the truth what actully is happening as here media is independent . I was shocked to in your national Parade day , all the windows of houses were closed and no guest was welcomed by the people whose houses lined the parade street . Any way it is your government . You can live here , enjoy and visit the places without any problem at any public place because ordinary Indian like you dont know what China is doing against us and want lot territorry under control of India under his control . You have come to know the truth that here is press is open and things are discussed openly but participated by only few% of public as it is not the topic of intrest for common man who is busy in earning lively hood . As far as you are concerned you revealed your reality by calling lap dog . Our relations with USA is sore for
It is funny that indian hate China but not other way around. Yes China does have boundary issue with india but it was UK who made today's india. Before india became colony of UK, Pak and Bangladise belonged to india. India lost so much because of english but it still is a commonwealth country and it still likes english. What a idiot. You, indian, have a very strong slave mentality. You look up white people but look down colored people. This is fatal for your indian. This is why you can never get a real friend and this is why every one of your neighbours is your enemy because you treat them as enemies. I wander how long indian can get rid of their slave mentality and learn to respect others, even they are colored people like yourself? When you have done this, you can have some friend and you can get other's respect. Otherwise, you are only a looser, a misreable and lonely looser.
Re: Funny indian
by Prem Chandra on Jul 30, 2010 05:29 PM
You are living in fools paradise and what you are taliking is not true . It is simply reflecting your mentality . We have nothing to do with it . We are developing and you are jelous of our development . One show making joke about medical treatment of India and many Europian , American Canadian , Middle east persons come for the medical treatment here in India . Mind yourself INDIA Is going to be superpower in Medical treatment and hospitals and Institutions which are opening up can dwraf your Big hospitals in very near future . I am talking of one sector you might not have heard about it .Billions of equivalents of US $ are being invested . Apollo grop of hospitals are spreading in Asia like multinationals . Those who are traeted are greatful to Indian doctors as they cannot get service better than west and economical . These hospitals are superior in many way to their western counterparts . You have the same mentality you need to change .we have progressed forward but you fail to see as you are fond of seeing poors , undeveloped Indians and backwards part of India . You dont see what has developed , we are biggest market than whole Europe and have buying capacity equivalent to whole Europe . But you will talk about poor Indians , unpreveleged class , weaker section . We do feel for them and want them to progress but it will take lot of time . UK looted whole of the world so is the case with other Europe nations . We are progressing by normal means Chandra
Re: Funny indian
by Baba Kamdev on Sep 19, 2008 12:26 PM
David Daku,
You statement ,"Before india became colony of UK, Pak and Bangladise belonged to india." is false.....India was nothing but a number of disjointed states before British came..
British did a great srvice of integrating these states into one India.
Hi All, Its a good article to read and keep crying on the behavior of our neighbors. But what have we learnt till date from the history of our relationship with our neighbors. If we cannot learn and apply ourself accordingly then there is no point in crying after that when things turn out to be different. So please stop crying over what has been the history of China and learn from them to tackle them in future.
Re: China can't be trusted in million years
by v reddy on Sep 19, 2008 11:31 AM
all of ur points may be true except for your 100 yrs timeline,but still people around the world love us.which country do u belong to so that I will write about ur case
Like in life, nothing falls from the sky! Maybe, we expect all to play fair. But that is a miracle even within a family!
US is a busybody. Neck-deep in trouble in Iraq, Afganistan, Ukraine etc., they are now facing financial armagaddon, threatening to drag the whole world with them. They have the system in place to debate all issues openly, with even the President & top bureaucrats quizzed by all & sundry!
China is playing a smart game. Why not? They have accumulated reserves of $ 2 trillion, enough to bale out corporate America. The recent Olympics was a baton hand-over in world power equation. Though even US could not have held such a spectacle, chinese still are willing to learn from US & the rest! They have zero baggages of Mao era & look ahead. They are already taking the lead in clean energy etc.
We are our own worst enemies! Nothing is above petty politics. When bombs kill innocents, our leaders engage in blame games, letting the culprits off the hook. A 70% dependency on Middle East oil is a tightening noose around our necks, but we have no clear policies. We make enemies out of friends.
Let us learn from China in the art of diplomacy & unity. They are friends with everybody. US is switching to clean energy & they can become fuel independent with shale oil,solar,wind, geo-thermal,gas hydrates etc.
Let us look at the mirror for our own fault lines before blaming others! Basic unity is a must to deal with a competitive world! No free lunches!
Re: Face the realities!
by Calspadeaspade on Sep 19, 2008 10:02 PM
Very well said. Indians are inherently naive and clueless in the art of diplomacy or war. They have non pragmatic leaders like Gandhi and Nehru who act like saints instead of wise tough men like Mao.They still have not learned anything from the world. Even Nepal and B'desh are smarter when it comes to real world poltics. They know how to use their cards.
Yes, article really describes right face and facts about China. Only a quote "India cannot choose its neighbours" is partially correct. India should have supported Tibet for their freedom. It should have used like a buffer state, keeping China away to some extent.
Re: Inscrutable China
by Ping Liu on Sep 19, 2008 08:04 AM
Of course I wish best to people of India to progress to prosperity under peaceful conditions, better or not better than China. But I think that will not happen by only blame China for all kinds of setbacks in India. Any guy who witnessed the recent Trust Vote know where is the true problem of India.
India gov will not do what kirtikumar shah said, and China gov will not do what I said. I just show you Shahs how absurd these ideas are.
I do wish better understanding and communication between the two people, then rumors such as "leader killed as many as 100 million chinese" would not prevail. I read a lot Rediff to keep up with what happened in India, but sadly I found that so little indians can read Chinese and understand what really happen there.
Re: Inscrutable China
by Tresspasser on Sep 19, 2008 09:06 AM
Ping... Well what can I say...firstly you're not Chinese, you speak your mind and don't smile and stab from behind! I think you're a CPI guy... All I can say about the commies is "Communism is dead! God save the commies!" China's success is due to its relentless capitalism and large scale exploitation due to a dictatorial regime suppressing basic rights of a large part of the population. I hope you do get a chance to visit the true China and see how the people are suppressed and live in abject poverty.
Re: Inscrutable China
by Ping Liu on Sep 19, 2008 09:33 AM
Tresspasser, I'm a Chinese living in Guangzhou, and I've traveled most part of China and South-east Asia. I do want to visit India to get a close look. But while each year China issue 50,000 visa to Indians, India only issue 5,000 visa to Chinese, most Chinese have to wait 3 month to 1 year for a India visa. Maybe the situation will change when NDA elected again, since they are nationlists with more confidence.
And from what I've read in Chinese Blogs and BBS, almost 99% Chinese ever lived or traveled in India describes it as a dirty, messy place with development decades behind China. That do make me wonder.
But from I've read in Rediff and Indian blogs, I really think India can make a shining future, only not by afraid of or hate China.
And I'm true you and Shahs never read Chinese or traveled China
Re: Re: Inscrutable China
by Ping Liu on Sep 19, 2008 05:49 PM
to Sameer Bhagwat, I cant agree more. I once worked in Beijing with Indian IT engineers from Chennai, they are nice and clever and cooperative, I found more parallelism than difference between us. China and India dont need one's failure to attest another's success.
to Tresspasser, So I was wrong, and you do have traveled China. I'm glad that you have found more things other than abject poverty in China. And please understand that China, like India, has its own diversities while all parts are real China. And sure we all want peace.
Yes China has a huge lot of problems to deal with, that's why I keep an eye on the democratic and diversified and populous India for some teaching. But I reget that this forum teemed with too much hatred towards Chinese.
Re: Inscrutable China
by Ping Liu on Sep 19, 2008 11:23 AM
To Zhakas Bhidu, my point is that blame China can do nothing good for India. Let's suppose China collapsed today and go as poor as south-Sahara Africa, will then India with its poverty, bribery, blasts, religions conflict be admired by all the world as a shining superpower? You should know better . So try do something good for your Bharata and stop spreading rumors and hatred.
To v reddy, I do like India's diversity and culture, I meet India communities in Singapore and Malaysia, they live along with Chinese, that's interesting. And the Hindus temple of Ankor Wat really fascinated me. I don't think Indian and Chinese cannot get alone. As for the visa problem , it recorded in many many Chinese blogs, but I have not try it myself, so I cannot argue with you any more.
Re: Inscrutable China
by Sameer Bhagwat on Sep 19, 2008 11:32 AM
hello mr ping lui, i believe we can be more friendly at personal levels encouraging social contacts.Most people in india does not know much abt china and same is the case in china.Let the young generation know abt each other bcoz china and india r the future.China is quite developed and india is catching up fast.
Re: Inscrutable China
by v reddy on Sep 19, 2008 10:30 AM
Mr liu,FYi there are over million Indians travel to china every year & China is restricting visas to India and not vice versa.India will issue visas you need to travel,but there is not enough export oriented activities other than tourism for which more than 100,000 chinese visit India every year with no visa problem. Even though your chinese blogs say that India is dirty ,they would love to come to India again to witness the diversity and culture we have and the love we show to chinese tourists.
Re: Re: Inscrutable China
by Pulkit Joshi on Sep 19, 2008 03:04 PM
Liu, why should the Indians learn chinese? Our love towards chinese food isnt enough to show our affection towards China? Anyhow, Chinese isn't spoken in any of the Indian States nor is it a business language of any country apart from China. I dont think you can read/write/speak Hindi or Sanskrit or any other Indian language and I dont expect you to do that. You know how much supression Chinese ppl have and will experience under the comm govt. The Chinese government controls everything that reaches Chinese ppl even over the internet (they block sites and blogs which are against Chinese govt or expose corruption and inefficiency of the Chinese govt) forget abt the print and TV media. If you speak/write/publish and may be even think anything against the Chinese govt in China you might land up in prison. So you dont know the real picture of China. I would suggest you better do some introspection before saying anything against the Indian government.
Re: Re: Re: Inscrutable China
by Ping Liu on Sep 19, 2008 05:50 PM
I never argued that Indian SHOULD learn Chinese. I just point out that a Chinese with English can learn much more about India than a Indian with English can learn about China, and Chinese web can tell a lot of things other than what you can read in English media. Agree?
I wonder why others can tell with certainty that I dont know the real picture of China. It's not a secret how to get around the GFW in China, and I can always access all English media you can read. and I traveled a lot. I must say that you have stereotypes about China and Chinese which are not always true.
Had I said anything against the Indian government? It's not me who initialized this "buffer state" thread (and I dont think that's supported by India gov), I just rephrased it in an Indian context so we all can get the absurdity.
The author had written pure nonsense.His only aim is to somehow convey that the NSG waiver was obtained against tremendous odds.I wonder why should he try to create a yarn in this matter.Every one knows that India compromised on its position on nuke testing, by making an unilateral assertion into a multilateral, legally binding commitment.We have foregone sensitive technology and reprocessing rights.God only knows what other hitherto unrevealed compromises India had made.In the light of these, what is there to crow about in the NSG waiver?Strange,how indians can treat defeat as victory.
Re: inscrutable China
by Sastry on Sep 19, 2008 01:51 AM
Good comment. Comment with content. But I too believe that the waiver was a herculean effort on Bush' part to c the deal thru.
