RE:Question of Conversion.
by Shankar Panday on May 10, 2007 10:49 PM
Surya you must understand a few things before you go about Hindu/Hinduism this and that. Firstly, Hinduism is not an organized religion like Christianity or Islam..it does not have the huge financial muscle or political backing as Christians & Muslims have. Converting people for whatever reason is the main thrust of your Semitic religions like Islam & Christianity. These relgions have introduced competition in the name of God but have nothing to offer except for hate and killing. Christianity carried on killing thru the centuries, only to be topped by islamic brutality. Today we can see the horrible tension and brutality that Christianity & Islam had brought about, only we call it the Clash of civilizations. Unfortunately, Indians themselves have overlooked the refreshing aspects of Hinduism, thanks to a peculiar brand of secularism adopted by our founding fathers. This why we see the peddlers of Bible thumping religion still so active and how the other religon resorts to terror all to establish their warped view of some middle eastern one God. You may find fault with HIndu society on caste lines, but bear in mind that when India adopted a secular equality for all constitution, NO one objected it on grounds of religion.. No one said that India has to be under caste supremacy. wonder how u can condone the dangerous trend of conversion of innocent people who are given a far more dangerous and superstitious religion in Christianity & Islam. As Hindus they can be reformed one day with education. but as Christians or Muslims they are doomed to be medeival Inquistionists or worse, Jihadists.
RE:[object]
by Surya on May 10, 2007 10:58 PM
Shankar Panday, You are going somewhere in space without direction.I am not defending any religion here if you see my first post.My view is that every INDIAN IS EQUAL and deserves respect.He has the freedom to choose whatever religion he can and nobody should deny any Indian this freedom period.Talk about this.
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Aruna Kumar on May 10, 2007 11:05 PM
Surya, if every indian is equal, what are your esteemed views on the reservation quota in india?
The DAY every INDIAN feels he is as good as his fellow INDIAN and does not discriminate on the basis of religion and caste(he shoud not think about these 2 things he should just see a human being and a fellow Indian).That day the reservation system MUST be scraped.
RE:RE:[object]
by Aruna Kumar on May 10, 2007 11:15 PM
Why is that? Every Indian is Equal, by your theory, so the reservation system only creates more trouble for people who have worked hard to be where they are... Your logic is therefore just "convenient logic"...And by the way, I don't think that "day" as you say where all "people don't discriminate against others" will ever come...If muslims are the majority, they harrass hindus (as in Kashmir), if Christians are the majority, they harrass the rest of the "non-believers" (western propaganda)
RE:Question of Conversion.
by Surya on May 10, 2007 11:32 PM
There is no equality today.Many low caste people cant buy a bike(bicycle)and go to college in orissa they are beaten up just because they are low caste.People get beaten up just because they have a different view than the majority.Only a few who enjoy the economic wealth of this country say that everything is good and country is shining because their pockets are full.I understand Muslim's behave differently in different countries but i am not concerned about other countries,i want my country to be Great.You cannot build a GREAT INDIA ignoring many peoples freedom.
RE:Question of Conversion.
by Aruna Kumar on May 10, 2007 11:46 PM
So, now you say that you have to have rules and laws based on what the political, social, economical climate is...That holds true for religion also...Minorities claim they are insecure in secular India...Majority Hindus also feel insecure because they are unfairly targeted and criticised and false rumors spread about them and their religion... I understand that you are also in essence talking in the level of "humanity", but so am I... But can you go to iraq or iran or pakistan and try to sell your views? I doubt if you will come back alive! Try to be the message you are espousing and people will respond in kind...Anyhow, pleez stop trying to change other people... India isn't that BAD you all...India is a great counrty where millions coexist despite the dissimilarities in language, caste, creed, religion, color etc...Be Proud! There are regional disparities, but I think good people inside should resist and fight the people who espouse it...The quotas have made the recipients lazy...They no longer work for what they want...Thats not good either...
RE:Question of Conversion.
by Surya on May 11, 2007 01:47 AM
Aruna,
I believe at this point of time there should not be any Quota to any body in India at work force level.But there should be Quotas at education only at primary level not at engineering or medicine untill everybody gets to equality to compete at work equally. There should be special schools to make people competent who are backward in education upto primary level who cannot compete for higher education with people who have all resources.Basically the competition at higher education must be between equals.I meant a SC guy must be as competent as a good brahmin when he is competing for hugher education. Only through education and hard work there can equality.I understand there are so many Engineers in IIT's who dont deserve to be there. What current reservation system is doing is fooling lower caste people to believe that they are better off with less education and can get a good job. Current system is ultimately creating incompetent Indians which is not GOOD. There should be a system where a lower caste person should be able to be a great nobel prize winning physicist he should have all the resources.There should be a system which should make people equal.
RE:Question of Conversion.
by Praveen Kumar on May 10, 2007 11:41 PM
You guys are talking about the conversion spiritual identities; what would you call all the Indians (Hindus included) who dont think twice before they change their national identities (citizenship) for the love of the Dollars, Pounds, Euros, etc? The are so embarassed about their Indian roots that they even re-christen themselves; Krishna is Kris, Hari is Harry, Neelkanth is Neel. You guys are hypocrites to the core!! This applies to all of us Indians.
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Aruna Kumar on May 10, 2007 11:50 PM
Praveen seems to be somebody who doesn't want money...Most People want money to stave of hunger, to pay if they are diseased, to have social status and so on...So if they earn that money outside, what's it to you? Also, if India's population has exceeded so much that it can no longer support everybody, people will have to find venues for work/study outside...
RE:Question of Conversion.
by Praveen Kumar on May 10, 2007 11:56 PM
I am not talking about people who have gone to different countries for their livelihood; its your illogical/hypocritical explanations i am against.
RE:Question of Conversion.
by Praveen Kumar on May 11, 2007 12:12 AM
And coming to the names part, do you foresee Arnold Schwarzenegger changing his name to Anand Sagar is he is in India just because 98%of the Indians cannot spell or pronounce his last name? Understand what i mean? We Indians will do anything that will help us live a life which we feel is good enough for now. We might release dangerous Islamic Jehadi criminals because we dont have the nerve to stand up to see main problem but look for temporary solutions; we might praise a criminal Union Minister who is taking credit for his deputies' planning and hardwork because we now he is being project as a saviour by the media; i am sure all of us will forget the worst World Cup performance if we beat novices Bangaldeshis in another match.
RE:Question of Conversion.
by Aruna Kumar on May 11, 2007 12:24 AM
Arnold has changed many things to be where he is in the USA...I am sure he would modify his last name, if nobody in india pronounced it well...He might make it arnol Schwarzz or Sagar as u say...They change their names bcos people end up calling them Kris or Harry anyways... I understand what u mean, but i think only enlightened souls aren't hypocrites...America went to war with iraq saying its a war on evil...There are hypocrites there too...Hypocrites are found all over the world, greed is found all over the world etc...which takes me back to my original comment, negativity is an attribute of the human mind...You and me should try stopping changing others and try to change ourselves. Everybody is ignorant and a hypocrite one way or another... Samjha?
RE:RE:Question of Conversion.
by Praveen Kumar on May 11, 2007 01:43 AM
Funny that you are trying to make me understand my own point! You accept that you are a hypocrite, i accept that i am one; then is there any meaning to all the discussion that we are having here? Its just for the heck of it, aint it?? At least I dont try to stand on the Qutb Minar and preach values to people.
RE:Question of Conversion.
by Praveen Kumar on May 11, 2007 01:41 AM
Funny that you are trying to make me understand my own point! You accept that you are a hypocrite, i accept that i am one; then is there any meaning to all the discussion that we are having here? Its just for the heck of it, aint it?? At least I dont try to stand on the Qutb Minar and preach values to people.
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Aruna Kumar on May 11, 2007 12:29 AM
Yes, you were talking of people who couldn't survive in india and went to other countries to try their luck. If you don't want me to comment on that, use better analogies instead...Many people in india wear jeans and t-shirts and everything...Are u one that still wears dhotis to work? Anyhow, one has to change atleast a little bit without compromising on ones essential principles...Don't keep on questioning everything under the Sun...Try to find some answers too and implement them...If u think politicians aren't doing well, stand for election win and implement...!
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Aruna Kumar on May 10, 2007 11:55 PM
When in rome one has to live as the romans do... When in Saudi Arabia ALL women have to cover their heads...Is it bcos they have converted to islam?
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Aruna Kumar on May 10, 2007 11:46 PM
Praveen, Those guys have a right to re-christen themselves, if they feel...Krishnamachari can't be pronounced well by westerners, Umapathay Gajapathy also...So why can't they re-christen themselves...Its their freedom of choice...But i haven't rechristened myself...So talk about yourself-don't generalize
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Aruna Kumar on May 10, 2007 11:04 PM
He has the freedom to choose, but all facts must be placed before him...Otherwise it just becomes enticement, just like a child is enticed by candy by a stranger and then probably raped and left for dead...Conversions through deception should stop.
RE:Question of Conversion.
by chaitanya kumar on May 10, 2007 11:01 PM
Your logic is flawed and you seem like a naive guy. India is a nation because of Hindus. Just like Hans define China, Shintos defien Japan so does Hindus define India.
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Aruna Kumar on May 10, 2007 11:11 PM
India is secular, but the majority Hindus have provided a climate for every religion to coexist peacefully...However some people in the very same india are converting people and spreading lies and deception and disrespecting other religions creating a climate of disharmony and distrust...
RE:Question of Conversion.
by chaitanya kumar on May 10, 2007 11:11 PM
India has always been secular and will remain secular because Hindus live in it and so their culture and people must be protected. The jews and parsis were treated kindly in India more than any other places when they had no where to go or were persecuted in other nations. Hindus defend the rights of peace loving people and don't tolerate intolerant people who try to aggress upon their culture. Guests should not piss on the plates are provided and insult the hosts. I hope you get my point. Hindus and their culture should be preserved and re-energised to continue the secular values. Perverted secularism that breeds sepratist mindset among people and makes them appreciate mecca and muslims in other places more than indian causes is not the way to go. Pampering will only spoil. Instead, people must be instructed to be a part of the nation and respect it's millenial values while letting them practice their own faiths too.
RE:Question of Conversion.
by on May 10, 2007 09:41 PM
i have no clue what you are talking about. you said "ALL INDIANS ARE EQUAL and branding on religion,caste,region should be abolished. " THEN WHY convertions and asking people to convert in some hindu holy places..??? people like you have only one angle to view at --
RE:Question of Conversion.
by Surya on May 10, 2007 10:14 PM
I am not telling that missionaries are doing good by asking people convert to christianity because its the best religion or christians are only going to heaven and the rest to hell i dont believe the junk they are telling.All i am saying is every Human being is having a right to live a better life by chosing whatever way he likes or chose to follow.Its not any ones business to brand him as NON Patriot as some of the Hundu oraganizations bullying poor people and say that people cannot convert. If you can understand proper english you can understand what i meant by saying "ALL INDIANS ARE EQUAL and branding on religion,caste,region should be abolished." Spare some time and read what i wrote and you might get how many angles are there.
RE:RE:Question of Conversion.
by Aruna Kumar on May 10, 2007 10:25 PM
There is no reason why people should convert to another religion based on bad facts, misinformation, lies or violence...That sort of conversion is coerced...Poor people convert if they are given money...Thats like a bribe...However if it makes them survive i think they should convert...But then these very same people are conditioned to talk ill about other religions and people in one secular india...So, that strikes agains the root of nationalism and patriotism by creating divisions based on religion. My english is anyday better than yours. The indian constitution has always upheld the equality of all religions, however whether it comes into practice 100% is a moot point. But then again thats the situation in every country in the world...Also india is probably the ONLY country in the world, where minorities have Raja Yoga at the cost of majority... When u argue a case you have to substantiate it...Your views proceed tangentially...All that you have said is a few statements that aren't linked to one another...
RE:RE:[object]
by Surya on May 10, 2007 10:34 PM
Aruna, People like you only can believe that everything is a propoganda that his rivals believe and yours beliefs are not propaganda. You sound like a fundamentalist who if given proper training will be ready for a belt bomb within a short notice period. You can only think that India is the only country where minorities are having Raja boga or yoga whatever.Go around the world and see for urself there are many countries which are much better than India in terms of treatment of minorities.
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Aruna Kumar on May 10, 2007 10:57 PM
Surya, I have seen the world...I am not a frog in a well that has seen only India...I have seen that humans everywhere can be selfish and self-supporting. But your claims that ONLY hindus are like this makes me think that you are probably masquerading as a hindu, but aren't really one. These problems are there for all people irrespective of caste creed color or religion or nation for that matter.
RE:RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Surya on May 10, 2007 11:02 PM
Aruna, Again think as human being the moment i start write something you start judging my views based on my name and caste.Please stop doing that thats a typical Indian phyche.Thats what i am against.
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Aruna Kumar on May 10, 2007 11:07 PM
Didn't u judge me based on religion? You called me a quran fanatic and one who will bomb people...? Why do u feel annoyed when people respond in the same kind?
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Aruna Kumar on May 10, 2007 11:00 PM
Also, i will defend if i feel that people are wrongly targeted. That includes hindus, muslims or christians...I am not a person that will defend only hindus, only muslims or only christians...I will defend everybody if it is needed and if they are wrongly targeted by bullies and ignorant people.
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Aruna Kumar on May 10, 2007 10:31 PM
Dharma sometimes needs to protected with wars and battles, that is the essence of the Gita...If your mother or sister or wife or daughter were going to be molested, would you talk like this? Where people need to be slapped they need to be slapped...Even if you try to kiss a mosquito, the next instant it will bite...
RE:Question of Conversion.
by Surya on May 10, 2007 10:39 PM
Yes you are right. You sound to me like one more Quran fanatic.The difference is there is one dharma for you and there is one more dharma for him so you defend yours and every body else will defend theirs as suggested by you with battles and blood and then you can swim in that blood.
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Aruna Kumar on May 10, 2007 10:53 PM
The Gita has always stood by peace.Krishna asked the Pandavas to ask for 5 houses from the kauravas, but the kauravas said "No, will not give so much land as measured by the tip of a needle"...In reality the kauravas wanted war, and krishna through the pandavas gave them what they were asking for, but only after exhausting ALL possible avenues for dialogue and discussion.
RE:Question of Conversion.
by chaitanya kumar on May 10, 2007 10:44 PM
Surya you are the kind of fantatic that defends muslims when they aggress upon your territory. You defend them fanatically like the traitors who did in the past for their selfish causes. Muslims mean time will manufacture fanatics that only defend their people. You on the other hand defend them fanatically. And against whom? meek Hindus. Way to go. If there are any stupids living the world, it's guys like you.
RE:Question of Conversion.
by Surya on May 10, 2007 10:53 PM
Chaitanya,
People like you who cannot tolerate his fellow human being brand people and can call them stupids that shows your intolerance for fellow Indian. I dont defend any fundamentalism.
RE:Question of Conversion.
by chaitanya kumar on May 10, 2007 10:56 PM
when you call others fanatic, what's wrong if they call you stupid. It's a two way street. When guys like you abuse Hindus it's not BC times that Hindus will lie down and take all your abuses. The modern Hindu knows how to defend himself against traitors like you.
RE:Question of Conversion.
by Aruna Kumar on May 10, 2007 10:48 PM
Surya, I believe that ALL religions espouse love and compassion fanatically...So no religion has the right to claim that theirs is better...Just bcos you say i am a quran fanatic, doesn't mean that i am going to break down and cry...It means that you have no more talking points left...
RE:Question of Conversion.
by chaitanya kumar on May 10, 2007 10:31 PM
inequality needs to be overcome and people need to unite and reform to protect their ancient progressive values. There are problems in all cultures and they need to reform to overcome problems. Violence is only for self-defence. Hindus have produced Gandhi, Buddha and all the greatest peace loving people of the world. Others spread violence. So this needs reforms too. You will be better prepared to spread peace when you can thwart away the violence of others. Self-defence is first to be secure and protect the great values of a very ancient civilization. There are bad values too, but as i said they need to be discarded or reformed and made inclusive for others.
RE:Question of Conversion.
by Aruna Kumar on May 10, 2007 10:05 PM
Surya, Pleeez stop airing ignorant views...Last time i had a conversation with a christian in a rediffmail forum who said that only Christians go to Heaven and all the others go to hell...Every action has an equal and opposite reaction-says Science and long before that the Vedas...If there can be radical Muslim and Christian organizations there will be radical Hindu forces too, striving to bring a balance to the world...That is natural law...I don't espouse violence, but some people understand only that language...Its people like you that have no idea what hinduism is and what it has stood for and the problems hindus have faced that talk like this...Also, every religion has its own set of problems...For every "Sati" there was "Witch Hunting" in the west, for every oppression in India there was "Slavery" in the west...That doesn't justify oppression, but just wanted to point out that every people in every part of the world went through all this, and that makes me think that negativity is part of human mind and not any religion. The negative mind interprets religion negatively and proceeds accordingly.
RE:[object]
by Surya on May 10, 2007 10:24 PM
Aruna,
Who is ignorant? is not you to decide but its a matter of realisation.You cannot tell me i am ignorant, i can only realise i am ignorant which i am not realising. Regarding your application of Physics laws to your imagination that there are forces of christians and muslims and we need a hindu force to counter balance this force, i know you might think force is equal to mass multiplied by acceleration so there must be a lot of mass hindus and accelerate to stop the force of muslims plus christians, people like YOU can only think like this. I know none as a group(there might be some individuals) on this earth are saints, there cannot be a saint religion.Try to understand what i wrote.
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Aruna Kumar on May 10, 2007 10:29 PM
Every person who is debating here is ignorant in one way or the other and that includes me...Thats why we are debating...I am not a physicist but a biologist and i believe in the Unity of Life so i really dont care for people who talk divisions and act divisions...But i am also intelligent to realize that some people know only certain things and they will understand only if spoken to in their own language...If there were no radical hindu forces the average hindu would have to be fighting for dear life now in the great nation that is India...
RE:Terminator
by siva reddy on May 11, 2007 02:30 PM
rey who are u raa? Your Terminator is not having minimum qualities to stand along with him raaa..!
RE:Did he forget his wig?
by Aruna Kumar on May 10, 2007 10:07 PM
atleast he knows how to knock on the right doors, which is more than can be said about the CMs in other states of india...
RE:Did he forget his wig?
by indu cm on May 11, 2007 02:04 PM
Yeah sure what ever doors are pointed out by Maran family. He just needs someone to lift his hand and knock the door pointed to him by Maran
RE:RE:YSR is Christian Convert fundamentalists
by Muslehuddin Shakeel on May 10, 2007 08:53 PM
Same the Modi a hindu fundamentalist , we better start making indian politics a better place
RE:YSR is Christian Convert fundamentalists
by Cnu on May 10, 2007 09:01 PM
did modi built a temple in a masjid land or did he encourage people to lure muslims and convert them..? did he take money from any masjid and gave to temples. did he encroach 100s of acres of govt land and built a form house..?
RE:YSR is Christian Convert fundamentalists
by Anand Selot on May 10, 2007 09:09 PM
Modi is doing one better than that. Terrorising minorities and dalits and driving them out of gujarat.During the earth quake the bramins got the goodies first ,then the dalits and lastly the muslims and christians. So do not keep lying all the time RSS stooges.
RE:YSR is Christian Convert fundamentalists
by James Rediff Moderator Khan on May 10, 2007 10:12 PM
oh..btw...Mr Anand..Modi is an OBC..he is no upper caste to favour only brahmins and if u follow closely the gujarat politics some of his own party men who are upper caste oppose him...so there is no question of upper caste favouritism...regarding muslims and christians...i dont give a sh!t about them..they dont belong here any ways....
RE:YSR is Christian Convert fundamentalists
by SI on May 10, 2007 10:24 PM
why the heck u have kpet christian & muslim name u moron and btw India terre baap ka nahi. India Indians ka hai. Agar India terre baap ka bolatho, saare indians terre ko laath marke india se bahar bhagayenge. samja james or whateever u r, u RSS, modi chamacha moron.
RE:suit -suitable
by naidu naiduajay on May 10, 2007 08:53 PM
Y do you have to generalise???? You call yourslef American but by your comments you look like you are a narrow minded non telugu indian!!! :)
