remember world war 2? the allies gave the german some so called war plans that they were going to attack calais. the german army was in waiting there while divisions in normandy were being overwhelmed. manekshaw gave them the bait and they took it, now they say he sold war plans, how on earth did he become minister.
Actually, if you really look at this situation objectively, Gohar Ayub Khan's comments are more of an insult to Pakistan than to India.
Obviously on account of the outcome you're going to have people attempt to defame the victors and such attempts could always be shrugged off as being "ridiculous" as is this one. However from the Pakistani point of view such a statement really is a much greater insult. Basically Gohar is saying that the Pakistani military is so incompetent that they lost a war knowing the enemy's plan. The truth of the matter is that the Pakistani soldiers did fight valiantly; their misfortune was poor leadership and excellent leadership on the enemy's part (who despite having inferior technology managed to employ great strategem to win). This however does not mean that the lives of the Pak soldiers lost should be considered worthless. Unfortunately this is the message Gohar is putting out to his own people
RE:Insult
by Amit Shesh on May 09, 2007 04:45 AM
In the very least, frustrating the hell out of the enemy...as it evident from your post! First fight the war, and on defeat claim that it means nothing...great.
RE:Insult
by MS on May 09, 2007 07:15 AM
what victory u are talking about, one which are trying to win by media. u guys are so pathetic that after make huge claims of victory victory have nothing. atleast when we defeated u, we enslaved u and ruled for 1000 years. now have got any idea what victory is? u cannt win wars just be writing fake stories in rediff.com or ur media. so grow up and write what makes sense.
There was another claim saying everything that was on Indira Gandhi's table reached pakis during that war. These pakis have gone mad loosing two wars and couldn't recover from that till now... They need urgent medical help.
RE:There was another idiot...
by Amit Shesh on May 09, 2007 04:45 AM
Hehe there are more muslims in India than Pakistan, which "hindus" and "muslims" are you talking about? If you don't think our winning was so great, why are you so upset by the comments?
Gohar Ayub Khan prooved to be as foolish as his father. Atleast he could not keep the idiocracy of his father a secret. He doesn't know that here he's talking about an Indian Hero, who unlike pakis doesn't stoop for money. For example, we have our nuclear Scientist as our President respected by the whole world and they have their nuclear scientist in house arrest, who if found outside will be grabbed and arrested anywhere in the World.
I really never imagined that Gohar will stoop to this level to sell his book.If he really wanted money he could have begged,borrowed or stolen or joined some radical groups.It is normal there.Such a mean mentality how could he say that.And still they lost and now they are attacking from behind as cowards by way of so called jihad or maligning people like SAM who is highly regarded by all.What a shame for them after knowing all plans and with high US tech military hardware they lost both wars.Shameless people really.Gen Mush must keep such people shut such people in museums in the name of military ruler and beat him because his daddy lost after all the information.
This comment is so ridiculous it rightfully deserves to be labeled "stupid-funny"
How could have Pakistan lost the 65 and 71 engagements if they had such a high source of intelligence in the Indian army? On Pakistan's side the war was all but lost. Here are some stats:
-India took almost triple the territory (730 sqMi vs 220sqMi) and inflicted more losses especially as the war progressed.
- Ground war: Although the Pakistan army was a generation ahead in terms of it's equipment (Patton and modified Sherman tanks as opposed to baseline Sherman tanks with a maximum of 72mm shells) they were eventually defeated. The human casualties were ~4000 on the Pak side as opposed to ~3000 on the Indian side (and this taking into consideration that the Indian army was inferior in its ground war technology) Pak launched a daring SSG (commando) operation against Indian air fields which ended up in disaster given that around 80% of all commando's were killed and the remaining 20% were captured including their commander Maj. K. Batt.
-Air war: The PAF was again about 1 to 1.5 generations ahead of the IAF. I don't think the IAF even had supersonic jets in their arsenal at this point. The PAF were sporting Sabres which were transonic and supersonic F-104 Starfighters which at the time were the most advanced fighters jet in the world. The PAF recorded some earlier victories but then were blunted by the grossly inferior IAF.
-Naval War: The PN's only real 'operation' was that in Dwarka which was unsuccessful because they forgot to calibrate their guns. The Indian Navy (again, not nearly as well equiped as it was by the 71 war) relegated the PN to port for the remainder of the war.
The only reason there was a "stalemate" at the end of the 65 war is because India was anticipating Chinese intervention on Pakistan's behalf and chose to go on the defensive. This I agree was on account of poor intelligence on the part of the Indian armed forces and most of all poor foreign policy on behalf of the federal government.
Nonetheless, the objective analysis of the war is essentially antithetical to Pakistan having obtained the "war plans" from a high ranking general like Manekshaw.
stupid ayub khan gave away all his money to maneckshaw in return for false batte plans and now his son is homeless , jobless and penniless so he wants a refund from maneckshaw which was refused hence he is whining
Hei ! Failed democracy ex-minister of Pakistan let us live any way or wheresoever basis. We are not behind any nation to indulge into their internal problems. US and Bush is there to feed you all any way without losing sweat. Be engaged like trend with your bowl.
Being a human why you are not working for a democracy?
