I support the Hindu prayer in the Senate. Next they need a Muslim prayer and then a Buddhist one and then a Native American one and then a Shinto one and then....
I support education about ALL Religions with their warts and all. Christians should not only highlight 'love thy neighbor'. They should also highlight Mathew 16:16 "....he who disbelieves will be condemned". Muslims should teach Surah 5:8 "Don't hate other people" along with Surah 2:89 "the curse of Allah is on disbelievers". The Hindus should teach about the honour and respect of Ram as well as Krishna's advice to Arjun to do his duty of killing his cousins and uncles on the other side of the battlefield.
Yes, let's encourage religious freedom. Let our children learn about all the good as well as all the bad things religions have made us do. As Dan Dennett said "in a democracy, it is important for citizens to be well-informed". Let's give the next generation of citizens un-biased information about ALL religions.
Do worry - our christian brothers & sisters. Hindu religion is not the kind of religion in the forced/bribed conversion/ religious extremism business. It was only a matter of simple prayers to our broad minded americal law makers. What could not be even dreamt of in a hindu majority country is achieved through a magnanimous attitude of american people. Please do not interpret it beyond its prayer motives. God and divinity are supreme - whichever form that you express/believe/ practice- it is totally individualistic and we will only fool ourselves in ranking different faiths..
It is unfortunate to know that few people were objecting and trying to disturb the recitation of prayer by a Hindu priest. I wish these people had done some homework prior to doing that. The mentioned prayer doesn%u2019t say a word to praise Hindu God or to convert people to Hinduism. Let us go thru it once again. What does it say?
It says %u201CO God, thou art the giver of life, the remover of pain and sorrow, the bestower of happiness; O Creator of the Universe, may we receive Thy supreme, sin destroying light; may Thou guide our intellect in the right direction.%u201D
Lead us from the unreal to the Real, from darkness to Light, and from death to Immortality.
Peace, Peace, Peace be unto all.
Hinduism is an all embracing religion. All we aim for is peace, righteousness, and enlightenment from the Supreme power. One is free to think of any one you believe in. The prayer doesn%u2019t name any of the %u201Cmany many many many Gods%u201D as mentioned by the protestors. It reflects the ignorance and darkness in the mind, heart and soul of the protestors. May the Supreme Power enlighten them and guide their intellect in right direction.
Al-Haj Ibrahim Khalil Ahmad, formerly Ibrahim Khalil Philobus, was an Egyptian Coptic priest who studied theology and obtained a high degree from Princeton University. He studied Islam to find gaps to attack it; instead he embraced Islam with his four children, one of whom is now a brilliant professor in Sorbonne University, Paris France!
In 1952 I got my M.A. from Princeton University in U.S.A. and was appointed as a teacher in the Faculty of Theology in Asiut. I used to teach Islam in the faculty as well as the faulty misconceptions spread by its enemies and the missionaries against it.
My position began to shake and I started to feel an internal strong struggle, and I discovered the falsehood of everything I had studied and preached to the people.
Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and the Pagans, and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, We are Christians: Because amongst these are men devoted to learning. And men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognize the truth: They pray: Our Lord! We believe, write us down among the witnesses. What cause can we have not to believe in God and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous? (Quran 5:82-84)
RE:Philobus, Egyptian Coptic Priest and Missionary !
by Imaan on Jul 13, 2007 07:48 PM
Jesus (PBUH) himself asked his people to follow the prophet who was to follow him and who would reveal to the world Truth about God!
RE:RE:RE:Philobus, Egyptian Coptic Priest and Missionary !
by Srinivas Kandadai on Jul 14, 2007 10:55 AM
Simple thing is if u take religion and what these people said ant take it for granted let me tell u something. mohammed said he is the messenger and jesus said he is the son of God. Only Lord Krishna said he is the God. If we keep fighting on that then it is stupid, again Krishna said just do ur duties dont lookd for any fruits. if u do good good will fall upon u. if debated there is nothing more open and encompassing as Hinduism is than any other religions. This whole killings and all is because all other religions are rigid only Hinduism is flexible. Dont take me wrong in case someone says hinduism is peacefull then he/she is wrong if Dharma is not followed and even after given a long rope then fight. Krishna that is why asked and ordered Arjuna to fight their own brothers because they were wrong and insulted a Woman and were given a long rope to repent. If all Hindus start by saying because our God said he is the creator then all these prophets are servants then there is nothing. Everyone enjoy and learn about the flexibilty of Hinduism. All these guys who protested are modern day taliban.
when you yourself acknowledge the importance of freedom of expression.....u dont have to lure ppl into conversion....coz dats what u r trying to do by talking about 100 and 200 rs.....u ppl are so aggressive that other ppl only view you as messiah's of conversion.....hence if ppl come to u for conversion...dats good...but if u are paying them up for ur good sake....get lost........
"This is not a religion that has produced great things in the world."
Can I have the email of this so called historian. I want to send him a presentation of what Hindu's have contributed to the world. And My count will start from "0" :)
RE:David Barton - A Historian who never studied history..:D
by kumar on Jul 13, 2007 04:18 PM
US allows all "Religions" is a very correct statement. There is even a iftar party in the white house. There is no problem in accepting "religions" per say. The problem arises when religion comes as a way of life. Anything that promotes as system that is not like a capitalist democracy will be opposed and brutally crushed by the US. For e.g. Communism was not a religion but US spent billions to counter it because it was an ideology that directly challenges a capitalist form of democracy where the rich rule by proxy. I have often heard people saying that "hinduism is a way of life" and I cant agree more. But hinduism has been limited only the confines of temples...Hinduism is a complete ideology of governance and it is a social system. But the moment hinduism will try to implement itself as a way of life in any part of the world, including India, it will be brutally crushed. It is sad that the religion that has produced the great thinkers like Chanakya had to copy a constitution from the west.
RE:David Barton - A Historian who never studied history..:D
by Maverick on Jul 13, 2007 04:27 PM
I believe the beauty of *Hinduism* is that it is not restrictive. It does not ask you to convert people, neither through coercion, nor by waging a jihad. It definitely is a way of life, and it allows you the option to choose that way out of your own convictions rather than force it down your throat
RE:David Barton - A Historian who never studied history..:D
by kumar on Jul 13, 2007 04:33 PM
You are gravely mistaken if you say that hinduism is a concept which says that you can do anything you like. Any such idea would be classified as a non-idea. Hinduism has a very rich heritage and a very strong background. We have accepted the western systems so 'religiously' that we have forgotten the great values of hinduism itself. After-all Ram Rajya is surely not what we see today in India.
RE:David Barton - A Historian who never studied history..:D
by Maverick on Jul 13, 2007 04:46 PM
Dear *kumar*, I did not say that you can do anything you like in Hinduism. Being restrictive means *forcing* people to follow something. Non-restrictiveness allows a person space to interpret and analyze things on his/her own yet be part of the bigger picture. If I say I don't agree to a particular thing in Hinduism, I would still be one, but this freedom is not allowed in other religions. Frankly, I don't see what you're trying to debate with me.
RE:David Barton - A Historian who never studied history..:D
by Imaan on Jul 13, 2007 07:33 PM
Islam doesnot believe in Jihad as a means of conversion. If this was the case India would have been an Islamic Republic!
One of the basic and very clear message of Quran is that There Is No compulsion In Religion!
Jihad is associated with fighting only because of media publicity and loud mouthing of some muslim fundamentalists.
Jihad means to strive and struggle against once ownself and aginst ones own base desires and to overcome them. This is the best form of Jihad.
The prophet said taking care of orphans and widows is the one of the best forms of jihad and then comes Jihad to uphold the soverignity and territorial integrity and religion of god which involves fighting.
There is no major religion in the world today that doesnot practise Jihad to saveguard its own interests and that includes India.
The buddists are a pacifist people and their religion is based on pacifism but even Sri Lanka, the bhuddist majority country brutally suppresses the Tamil aspirations of Independence!
Japan's constitution was a pacifist constitution till recently but even they have changed their stance and no longer pacifist. There are even plans to start their own Nuclear Weapons Program as they see the New world Order and events in the world as a threat to Japan!
Peace will be achieved only if Justice is done and since there are not many Just people in the world, since its all me, me culture in the world today there is no chance for peace unless we rise above our nafs!
Being from a converted christian family myself, i am very much proud to call myself a christian and i am very much proud that i belong to such a wonderful religion. i believe in christianity with all my heart and nobody converted me by force or by giving cash(actually, we lost a huge amount of property because of our conversion). thus said, i do agree that trying to convert poor people by giving them cash is despicable, but ONLY in an ethical and moral sense. IF the poor people are willing to convert for 100 rs, then definitely if a Hindu or Muslim gives them 200 rs, they will convert right back!!! Why dont you Hindus and Muslims fight back against such shameful preachers by using the same tactics?!! instead of talking in abusive language and fighting so horribly, adopt the same method. Form a big organisation, call yourself a Baba or a Mullah, donations will pour in, recruit a huge no of volunteers, go from village to village, see how many of them were converted by cash, and give them more cash!!(just like our politicians do!ha ha)But mind you, you have to come back from time to time or else those poor villagers would have converted to some OTHER religion (AFRICAN PYGMYS religion?!!, as our friend Krishna says!!)who gave them 300 rs!! Friends, as dear friend Krishna says, religion is PERSONAL. so what if people preach, convert, or not convert? Take it easy all you.God bless you all and bring peace among you.
RE:Regarding conversion
by on Jul 13, 2007 04:36 PM
you are talking abt 100 and 200 rs....from wher did u get money to pay so many poor people....from christian missionaries abroad who have no other interest to serve than to convert.....and dont ever try justify forcible conversion by saying such stupid things....u moron
RE:RE:Regarding conversion
by annie phoebe on Jul 13, 2007 05:00 PM
It is totally useless talking in this forum as most of the people dont think rationally and dont really read the posts well enough before posting abusive language. All i find from these posts are that people are feeling so much insecure about their own religions. they feel so scared that their religion might be wiped out by conversions. therefore, i just suggested an alternate and rational method to some unethical conversions by some enethical christian preachers. Since some people cannot talk in rational language and dont know how to counteract reasonable arguments, they resort to abusive languages etc. I understand that and im sorry for you all. im willing to reply only to broadminded and reasonable people.
RE:Regarding conversion
by Rama Krishna on Jul 14, 2007 09:56 AM
Hi Annie,
Hinduisam is the oldest religion and followed by the people all over the world. Even your vatican city name is derived from sanskrit word 'vatika'.Pls go through this site and this is not an Indian web site.This web site is developed and maintained by an American Christian.
RE:RE:Regarding conversion
by Krishna on Jul 13, 2007 04:26 PM
My friend, I was like you only with all these doubts. The biblical verses seem very much contradictory.One thing you should understand about the bible is that you should not read one verse at a time but in its entirety. once you do that, you will that the verses. instead of contradicting each other, will instead COMPLIMENT' each other. i really cannot explain to you in this short space what that verse means, but if you would take the time to go through this wesite (www.amazingdiscoveries.com)(only if you want to, please, no forced enforcing of religion!!!), you might find the explanation to many such verses. the explanation for that above verse is fantastic and requires knowledge of end time prophecies in the bible. All the best!!
RE:Regarding conversion
by cool guy on Jul 13, 2007 10:28 PM
Mr. Sandeep.. Just to enlighten you on your "biblical knowledge". Im happy you quoted the Bible. But you misread the verse coz you didnt read what Jesus said before and after that verse. Jesus told the disciples not to get disheartned coz even before they hated the disciples, the world hated Jesus. When a person accepts Jesus as God, people will push that person away. If you want clear explanation, meet any recently converted christian, he will tell you that when he accepted christianity, his family ostracized him from their family. Thats what Jesus meant over there. Not coz of some divorce rate. Where do you get such thoughts I dont understand. And nowhere in the bible does it say that Jesus was a "prophet".
RE:Regarding conversion
by Topno on Jul 13, 2007 04:33 PM
I reconverted to Hinduism. I am very much proud to call myself a Hindu and I am very much proud that I belong to such a wonderful religion. I believe in Hinduism with all my heart and they tried to convert me by force or by giving cash(actually, we lost a huge amount of property because of our reconversion, the so called father of that church took all the money that he had given to us).
RE:Regarding conversion
by Sanjay Baxi on Jul 13, 2007 04:26 PM
Why is it necessary to convery somebody at all?? Is it not religious hegemony? Why all the religions want the emtire world to convert to their religion, and no other religions has the right to exist??
RE:Regarding conversion
by annie phoebe on Jul 13, 2007 04:51 PM
i think there is something wrong with the way we use the word 'Conversion'. You are right that a particular religion should not want the entire world to change to their own religion. I believe that when I talk about the bible or jesus christ to someone, its only because i want them to share the happiness and joy and peace i have received as a christian. I have all my doubts cleared as to where i came from, and what happens after i die (the BIble does NOT teach the existence of HELL), and what is going to happen to this world.Being a scientific person myself, I have researched and found out that what i believe is TRUE!!. Therefore i try to share it with others because they are my brothers and sisters and they also should know what i know.It is just like a scientific journal. You publish your findings in order for the society to benefit. its upto the society to decide whether they want to accept that finding or not.i feel a burden in me to share my blessings with others. If they want to learn more and thus get blessed like me, they are welcome. If not, That's their choice, they 've just lost an opportunity to know the meaning of their lives. THATS ALL!!! NO ONE IS FORCIBLY CONVERTING THEM. Its just a sharing of knowledge.IF someone believes what i believe and becomes a christian that is that persons's CHOICE!! No one has any right to critize that! Every person has FREEDOM OF CHOICE!! Let us acknowledge the human brain by allowing everyone to exercice their choice of religion.
RE:Regarding conversion
by Sanjay Baxi on Jul 13, 2007 05:14 PM
There lies the question of ignorance, and intolerance, which teaches you that only what you think is right, and what all the other people think are wrong. It is not the question of forcable convertion, it is the question of peaceful co-existance and respecting other's faith. Any religion which says only my religion is right and other religions are wrong, is unfit for the modern world. When you speak of "sharing the knowledge" do you mean that I should share some my knowledge with you? It cannot be a one way traffic. We MUST live and let live....
RE:RE:Regarding conversion
by Sanjay Baxi on Jul 13, 2007 05:22 PM
Ms Phoebe, what if I say that I respect the teachings of Jesus Christ, but I dont want to convert to Christianity, will that be ok for you?
RE:Regarding conversion
by annie phoebe on Jul 13, 2007 05:33 PM
Sure, definitely. 100%. I really dont mind whether you call yourself a christian or not! dont mistake me! that's a personal choice. Even if you dont listen to me, I wont be angry, ill just be sad. I cant understand why true christian preachers have to justify their actions to others. They can jsut say, 'take it or leave it, I ve done my duty in telling you some truths, its upto you now'. And, its not one way traffic. I defintely know very much about Hindusim as i come from an orthodox hindu family. you are welcome to share your knowledge with me. like me, you too can say'take it or leave it'. and its upto me!!! just pure freedom of choice!!
RE:Regarding conversion
by Sanjay Baxi on Jul 13, 2007 05:43 PM
So, if you really think like that then the debate stops right here. No question of convertion, whether by force or alurement. It will be such a peaceful world. There are two things I want to tell you at the end,
1. If I say great things about myself it does not make me great, what others say about me really matters.
2. Religion, was and continues to be the greatest reason for Human killings all over the world, no religion in this world, e.g. Spanish Inquisition, (parhaps with the exception of Buddhism) can deny that.
RE:RE:Regarding conversion
by cool guy on Jul 13, 2007 10:30 PM
Ok if you are in a desert with a bunch of people and you are the first to find water. What will u do? Ofcourse u will drink it and give the rest of the people to water. Right? So if someone feels that some religion has given them comfort and happiness and wants to share the same with others, why is it wrong? Forget about conversions, I am talking in general terms
