Whether u choose to call him Krishna, Christ or Allah there's only one God. Whether you choose to believe God is a 'he' or a 'she' or 'that' and despite what the fundamentalists and the conversionists tell you, there's only one God. Whether you choose to worship through an idol or sans one, there's only one God. Heaven and Hell are right here on Earth and the 'God' that we seek exists right in our hearts taking on the name, color and form of our choosing. The only 'visible' God is the one that moves through humanity - through me and you, through the happy and the sad, through the joyful and the miserable, through the healthy and the diseased. Now seriously, how hard is that concept to digest?
I think every Hindu, Sikh, Jain and Boddh should welcome conversions.
They should send missionaries to all parts of the world to convert white people, black people and hispanics to one of these 4 religions.
I guess, if the missionaries can do it and the mullahs did it until 50 years ago, the folk who own indian religions should do it too...
It is very simple to convert someone...
1. Find a christian who is sick and desolate. Talk to him very nicely without mentioning your religion. Help him at your own cost. After 2-3 years of friendship, bring him/her to the temple. Never ask him/her to convert. Just persist in your friendship and eventually he/she will convert by themselves...
2. Be cunning. Dress well, talk well. Never mention violence or force. One day or the other, the christian or muslim will come to you for help. Help him/her then and there with nice words and actions. Entice him to join you for indian movies, functions...After 1 year, take him to a temple and then to ur home. He/she will have mentally converted by then to Hinduism..
RE:Only one God
by sridevi soundarraju on Dec 14, 2007 07:51 AM
What do you think your christian missionaries do? Not only what you mentioned but more than that.. the funny part is the story these missionaries give ...Jesus comes in their dreams and blesses them to work only in India to convert people.. no dreams about any musloim country cos these missionaries value their life so much dont they!
RE:Only one God
by Abhisen Bose on Dec 14, 2007 07:24 AM
You are so experienced man. I am sure you are christian missionary too. The way you are talking is christian philosophy. We Hindu beleive only in Sarve Bhavantu Sukhina.
RE:Only one God
by Pradip Parekh on Dec 14, 2007 07:55 AM
missionaires have two face, sometimes more. what the missionaries say in their environment about hinduism would appall and distress all decent people. never trust them beady eyed rogues no matter how sweetly they speak.
Does anyone have proof? Why can't there be many Gods? Millions of people have died because a section of human race has gone on a killing spree to prove there is one God. Give me evidence- you jokers and stop killing others just because they are different
RE:What Caste are those white guys in orange robes??
by anir on Dec 14, 2007 04:59 AM
Caste system is getting more and more outdated.
You might to find better ways to convert hindus since force is also not working as during the days of your beloved mughals (who, by the way, converted ur coward ansetors by force).
RE:Keep it away from the Islamists or they will destroy the idols...
by satpath on Dec 13, 2007 11:38 PM
Yes Islamists are even bigger idol worshippers , they keep track of even the direction of the Kaba whenever they pray and bow in the direction of the Kaba. Millions of them go on pilgrimage to kaba , thus making the God localized and thus proving to be idol worshipper and Maszid as their idol
RE:Keep it away from the Islamists or they will destroy the idols...
by Skype net on Dec 14, 2007 05:56 AM
And you know in Kaba what they do? They go round a wall 3 time ( just as Hindus do around the Idols) which has metallic sheet covering! This is the holiest duty in their life without which 'Muslim' is incomplte. So what is that? Pure Idol worshipping, and talk about Hindus!!
I think its wastage of money by making such huge and expensive idols. If idols are just a symbol as claimed by hindus , then why making the symbols so expensive ?
Does that mean a person who make an expensive idols is a superior follower than the one which has less expensive idols ?
If the answer to the above question is yes then such an ideology is more suited to rich people as they can buy expensive idols.
In Vedas there is not even a single mantra which support idol worshipping . What kind of Vedic temple they are opening which is against the teachings of Vedas itself. In Veda there is a mantra which says that almighty god cannot be measured ("nay tasya pratima asti" ) then why the evil of the evil idol worship is practiced by Hindus. Due to praising the idol hindus are violating the Vedas which is the claimed as basis of Hindusim.
RE:Wastage of money by showoff, in Vedas there is no idol worship then why people are fooled ?
by shobhan sahdev on Dec 14, 2007 06:34 AM
My dear friend,
Try to understand what Ido worshipping is. Hinduism says 'God is omnipresent' which means God is eerywhere i.e. Air, Water, Earth, Universe. Even if you take a stone without any shape and consider it God you can pray to it. You can consider you Mother, Father as God. You can pray to anyone you like because GOD is everywhere. I hope you will try to realise this.
RE:Wastage of money by showoff, in Vedas there is no idol worship then why people are fooled ?
by Janavi Sundaresan on Dec 13, 2007 10:56 PM
In a way I agree with you. It is like mangal Sutra for women. In those days it was just a yello thread in which a piece of dried whole turmeric was attached. Now we have made a very expensive ornament out of it.Idol worship is neither recommended nor it is condemned in HInduism. All symbolic things get expensive when people get rich.It is found in other religions too. I you take the dome or steeple of a church it goes from very simple to most austentatious. Hindus have invented too many Gods or demi Gods and want statues for everything. Jains say they dont worship idols but they want statue for Mahavira.Not only that, there is a fight for whether the statue should be black granite or white marble.Well as long as people are happy with it that is fine. It is better than going around blowing up places and proslatysing others with duplicity.
RE:Wastage of money by showoff, in Vedas there is no idol worship then why people are fooled ?
by Skype net on Dec 14, 2007 06:12 AM
Dont fool other unknown peole by saying no mention of single mantra which support idol worshipping. Pl Dont talk about Vedas if U dont know.
In all the pujas, it is very clearly said.
For your info am just mentioning in brief. 1. At the starting, what you are suppose to do. 2. Then installing of Idol. 3. Then bathing of the Idol by water, milk etc. 4. Then Thilak, flowering (even the flower verity/ name is mentioned) and decorating. 5. then Agarbatthi,Arathi. 6. Offerings- fruits, milk, curd/food stuffs. 7. Mahamangalarathi at the end.
This is very much evident in many Vrathas also.
If you R really interested go and ask in any temple, ok? Dont misguide the people.
RE:Wastage of money by showoff, in Vedas there is no idol worship then why people are fooled ?
by madan on Dec 14, 2007 05:07 AM
dont worry about us. There is a science behind it which you will not understand.
"evil of evil of the idol worship" are u a christian ?
RE:Wastage of money by showoff, in Vedas there is no idol worship then why people are fooled ?
by satpath on Dec 14, 2007 12:22 AM
God is everywhere absolutely true even in atoms and electrons but we must pray God and not atoms or idols.
If you say that through idols u pray God then its not correct. Why you offer sweets to idols , why you dress idols is God not there in sweets and cloths already. Why you hold your hands before the idols is the God not there in your hands ? Why don't you say that you pray idols and not god ?
If otherwise then slap the idols after the prayer is over.
If you say that can a person slap his father's photograph as said by Swami Vivekananda then my view is that its possible to have the photograph of a person and thats why a person cannot slap or spit over the photo of his father, but almighty god has no shape how can he have a shape or photo , so slapping the idol should not worry you.
And the stories of Narasimha Avataar are stories only being opposed to the natural laws these stories are worth rejecting . These stories were foremed to consolidate idol worshipping and nothing else.
RE:Wastage of money by showoff, in Vedas there is no idol worship then why people are fooled ?
by anir on Dec 14, 2007 01:06 AM
Satpath,
I understand what you are trying to say but u are confusing urself with unnecessary details of technicalities.
If YOU and I mean you an individual do not feel any meditation technique or devotional path that involves idols is not right for you, u are free to choose ur way.
Like the Vedas (also say) - God is one but wise men see it in different ways.
Hence Idol or deity can be looked upon as a symbol of God where one thinks his or her mind calms down, progresses him in his spiritual path...then he or she is free to choose that path too.
Don't forget there are so many great sages that have born and led life with purely devotional spirit (worshipping a specific temple/idol) e.g. Tukaram, Namdev.
Even Ramakrishna Paramhansa, whose chief disciple (Vivekanand) was a Dyana yogi, Ramakrishna Paramhansa himself devoutedly worshipped the idol of Kali.
So do not just harp on one dimentional-aspect of Vedas...they are infinite, its the human mind that has limitations in understanding the ways it teaches.
RE:Wastage of money by showoff, in Vedas there is no idol worship then why people are fooled ?
by satpath on Dec 14, 2007 02:23 AM
You said that "God is one but wise men see it in different ways" what are the different ways you are talking about ?
Do you mean that wise men see more than one God in one god , then we should be better away from such fools. I am not against symols but against assuming symbols as God. When the symbols become gold and silver idols which needs protections against theifs. The symbol which was created to show you the courage instead creates fears in the mind . Then of what use such worship is which instead of giving freedom and happiness make you feel unsafe and requires protection from being broken away. The name of people you have given does not come any closer to the Ancient Vedic Rishis which wrote the six Darshans (Sankhya, Vaisheshik, Nyay, Yog, Vedant etc)and Upnishads. Read these darshans and upnishads and then see the logic given in them is applicable on universal basis. Nobody can oppose them as they are truth only , they are not history or false illogical stories believed by hindus and mocked by others.
RE:Wastage of money by showoff, in Vedas there is no idol worship then why people are fooled ?
by Attatar Yena on Dec 14, 2007 04:49 AM
From the look of the photos above I presume that these white guys in orange robes are now part of hindu fold.Can anybody tell me what caste these white sadhus have been accepted into?? ( I am asking because one cannot be a hindu without belonging to either of the four groups). further, since they are not born hindus, are they even below the shudras ?? Please enlighten me on this.
RE:Wastage of money by showoff, in Vedas there is no idol worship then why people are fooled ?
by anir on Dec 14, 2007 04:57 AM
Thats not mine, thats a vedic hymn.
I am not sure where to start for you, please read Aurbindo's or Dr. David Frawleys (vedacharya) articles/books on Vedas.
I am surprised by ur basic questions. Don't understand ur point anymore.
RE:Wastage of money by showoff, in Vedas there is no idol worship then why people are fooled ?
by sandipan sengupta on Dec 14, 2007 04:47 AM
Idol is like a human child everybody wants his or her child to look good, what is the harm in creating a grand temple or a grand diety, i agree exhibition of wealth is not good but it is better to spend on temple and dieties than whcih is for well being of all then spending on personal well being.
RE:RE:Wastage of money by showoff, in Vedas there is no idol worship then why people are fooled ?
by ganga n on Dec 14, 2007 07:45 AM
refer to vedas with an open mind...not with the biased mindset of "NO god, but only one god". As long as you guys hold on to this logic...you can never ever appreciate/understand anyone faith and beliefs. And your other concept of god is never imaginable to humans...pls. understand god is omni-present and omni-potent and it is austeric performing of your duties( dharma) and love (in true sense), bhakthi, purity in heart etc which makes even god listen to us and becoming slave to us...then even it is that persons choice where he wants to see...if in pillar or anywhere. You guys grow up....god is in you too....explore self...remove the masks of ignorance.
RE:RE:Wastage of money by showoff, in Vedas there is no idol worship then why people are fooled ?
by ganga n on Dec 14, 2007 07:56 AM
dear Attatar, you definitely need some enlightenment. Sanatha Dharma is not restricted to any region or race. Dharmic priciples are universal and anybody in this earth who performs his karma according to his dharma is the so called Hindu. Society runs with all categories of people together and person is categorised as brahmin/shudhra etc...purely based on his deeds not by birth.
RE:Wastage of money by showoff, in Vedas there is no idol worship then why people are fooled ?
by anir on Dec 13, 2007 10:50 PM
Lol - another arrogant and ignorant bafoon.
First he talks about vedic mediation / mantras / culture that I guess u did not get. He also brings in all religions from vedic origins into a single center for worship that also u did not get.
Thirdly, having emphasied on medication and yoga, there is nothing wrong about having idols as an external form of worship. There are also many meditation techniques that use idol as part of focus and concentration. It is not prohibited in Vedas, it just depends individual and his capabilities.
Don't forget its only a handful (certainly not u or me) that go beyond externals.
RE:Wastage of money by showoff, in Vedas there is no idol worship then why people are fooled ?
by satpath on Dec 13, 2007 11:38 PM
Yoga darshan says "Yoga is chit vritti nirodha " means control over the wavering mind. In yog darshan itself nowhere it is written that to meditate one has to use some idol. Yog Darshan says "Sthir sukh asnam" means the body posture in which a person can stay comfortably for a longtime is the 'asana'. Maharishi Manu says Breath control is the key to control mind , Manu has not written that to control mind one should practice idol worshipping but he says practice 'pranayaam'. The eight fold path as mentioned in Yoga darshan says that pranayam is the key to mind control. Then how come instead of pranayaam idols become the central figure for mind control ?
There is one more trap they have created that only a handful can pray God without the help of idols. Its a fact that the intellect of a man is affected by what a person meditates on. Now what one can meditate about an idol , one can only think of its size, color, expression and posture . How much time a human mind will require to know about the above attributes of an idol probably mot more than a second. Now after that what the mind will do ? it will feel bored and then wander around. But if the same mind is focused on various attributes of the infinite God then mind will have infinite attributes to search around and it wion't go anywhere but immerse in the infinite.
When in Vedas it is strictly written that God has no magnitude then how come hindus idol worshipper found and believe in the opposite to Vedas.
RE:Wastage of money by showoff, in Vedas there is no idol worship then why people are fooled ?
by anir on Dec 14, 2007 01:35 AM
I have read both ur replies...my reply in detail is down below.
Again, God is infinite and so are the ways to reach it...Devotional aspect while symboling a idol or deity as God is one way. It may not suit u, it might suit someone else.
Its not the Vedas that put any restrictions, its your limited/incorrect interpretation that is attempting to put that restriction.
You do not realise it but u are trying to prozelythise - only my way is correct.
Please do not do it, at least, on the basis of Vedas...the timeless/endless knowledge of spirituality.
RE:Wastage of money by showoff, in Vedas there is no idol worship then why people are fooled ?
by deepak on Dec 14, 2007 09:06 AM
Bhagwat gita, Chapter 11... Manifestation aur unmanifestation.. Bhagwat gita approves both form of worshipping.
Jai shri krishna
Hare krishna hare krishna Krishna krishna hare hare Hare rama Hare rama Rama Rama Hare Hare!
RE:Wastage of money by showoff, in Vedas there is no idol worship then why people are fooled ?
by Green Earth on Dec 13, 2007 10:55 PM
I can answer your question as of why they make such a expensive idol. Just like no body cares here of what you feel or say, but still you choose to say your feelings. Likewise, though, idol workship may not be anything of significance, but still they want to spend a lot and make a expensive idol. Did you get it straight you numbskull?
RE:Wastage of money by showoff, in Vedas there is no idol worship then why people are fooled ?
by Samosachat on Dec 14, 2007 05:28 AM
You can have that argument for anything we throw money on. Why not just have concrete floor ?why gramite and marble floors which are very expensive?. Inface idols are not really that expensive compared to expensive floors and walls.Why not lived in thatched roof houses?
RE:Wastage of money by showoff, in Vedas there is no idol worship then why people are fooled ?
by stav on Dec 14, 2007 07:51 AM
Concentration is developed from the gross to the subtle, so yoga is not against the idol. where the heart is the mind is, so devotion to the idol is a first step. So simply by quoting scriptures and giving them authority and saying that idol worship is against the vedas, shows you have never practiced serious concentration.
RE:Wastage of money by showoff, in Vedas there is no idol worship then why people are fooled ?
by shaily garg on Dec 14, 2007 08:38 AM
Shall i sum up the whole debate in a couple of sentences.. "We agree to each other on everthing and we still debate because of two problems 1) the shortcoming of any language to convey one thing to everyone 2) The problem of an interpretor to understand the right message in the right way...
Once a person start growing spiritually, he get only right information for all scriptures,He see no problem in any religion...And only on a one world "religion" one can debate endlessly..So why unnecessarily fall in the trap of language, the actual meditational experience is different, i would say do it and feel it...