Great article. Very illuminating. Keep up the great work of educating the masses. History has been made a dull subject in India and I hated it. Now I find it is pretty interesting. What a pity! Thanks for putting this information here.
To obtain a comprehension of Indian history one makes an assumption that such a comprehension can be made. The people of the past, whom we identify as the subject of Indian history mostly never saw themselves as belonging to the unified entity as we have today. Good amount of distancing is necessary to enable critical analysis.
However, history also serves to create commonality and continuity in our societal identity and this propels the quest for history but also creates a strong temptation for make-belief.
Unfortunately instead of grappling with the complexities of this nature the debate on history has been confined to bipolarity of a political kind that permits no real perception.
RE:Bipolar mentality
by KC on Aug 17, 2004 04:13 PM
Mr. Ramesh,
I would like to disagree with your contention that historically people of India never saw them selves as being a part of an entity we call India today.
Admiting that the notion of a country did not exist, the epople of this region were bound by a multitude of common aspects like religon, trade language (here again Sanskrit I guess in much of the northern areas and as we have today the south indian languages).
So it would be wrong to say that people of the region were just floating and were not really bound by any common thread.
RE:Bipolar mentality
by Achal Trivedi on Aug 17, 2004 05:59 PM
Mr. Rahul I could not stop myself when you mentioned that such article could trigger Hatred another Riots, as happened in Gujarat.
The Ground reason of the Riots was Burning "Hinuds" alive in Train.
Riot was the reaction of the frustrated Hindus, which are struggling to survive in the country of their own.
What the hell do you know about the people of Gujarat, who have Given Many freedom fighters, Learned People, Boost to the Indian economy?
Gujarat is the Power Centre of Economy which would be realized in coming years. It had stood all the Adversities of Nature in back to back Years and will stand the man made too.
The Publicity by some psuedo-secularist parties , Non government Organizations and Social workers who work for just their Publicity, that Gujaratis are communal and State lacks Law and Order .
But the matter of facts is We are Best known for our Traditions and Hospitality.
The Progress of our country is hindered just due to People with such mentality, which Deny the Facts and are so reserve, and conservative in their thoughts.
The Facts reveled by Mr. Rajeev are not provocative and do not impart Hatred but Boosts the Self Esteem which Indians Lack.
RE:Bipolar mentality
by anonymous on Aug 18, 2004 02:40 PM
>> The Aryan and Dravidian theory can only be debunked by proper proof and not extracts from mythological texts
Going by the same argument, you should demand proper proof for Aryan and Dravidian theory, right? Do you know that that is based on? What kind of proofs they have for that? (Other than the fact that that's what we studied in the history textbooks, which were written by colonialists and maintained by marxists? )
I think, Rediff is the best site for us Indians. I would like to congratulate people like the author, Mr. Srinivasan and Francois Gautier for such efforts, keep it up. You have done great service to a nation in hands of the corrupt, for a nation full of depraves and immoral people, perverted youth. I think we require a French revolution, for, the tormentors of India are far away from conscience. We need a crusade against sin, a river of blood from Kashmir to Kanyakumari to purge our own sins and break the inferiority imposed by a multitude of invaders over centuries. As for the history, the truth will come out someday, the Indian people will learn it bitterly given their present disposition of mind and tastes.
Fascinating bits of historical controversy. I will not argue any of the facts or cenjectures. The one thing I do know for a fact is that we need to live less in our 'glorious past' and think more on making a glorious future. If there is one thing India has too much of, it would be the wistful talk of a great past and fortunes lost. I think we have patted ourselves way too much when it comes to our history.
It pains me to see how most Indians are delusional about India being the only great power from the past. Walk into any museum with a *good* international collection and unless you have put on the 'great India' blinders, you will see that various civilizations came up with great stuff. In many cases, hundreds of years before ancient Indians caught up with it.
Lets face it folks, people in the rest of the world were not exactly hanging from trees when Vedas were written. I am proud of my Indian heritage, but I do not believe:
1. The rest of the ancient world was a bunch of morons who got all their widsom from us.
2. That a glorious past autimatically makes every Indian a brilliant mathematician-philosopher.
RE:Re: The battlefield of Indian history
by Vikram on Aug 20, 2004 11:07 PM
He is not saying that any other nation was bad. Undoubtedly, the Greeks/Egyptians/Mesopotamians/Aztecs/etc. also built GREAT civilizations.
But we were the best. No other nation on earth engaged in as much deep thought and indulged in as much creativity as the Hindus. No other nation on earth respected the sciences and overall knowledge as much as the Hindus. No other nation on earth commanded as much loyalty and love as Bharatavarsha. No other civilization in human history contained the internal power to resist assault by foreign barbarians, and incited MILLIONS of her sons and daughters to die for Her survival.
That is why we are still here - while the rest of those civilizations are DEAD.
Are you a qualified historian? Where from did you get these ideas? Are you running a serious website or is it just another mouthpiece of the right wing? '..these self-proclaimed "eminent historians", many of them affiliated with the Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi, have manufactured a history of India that is widely at odds with the evidence on the ground..'. The veteran historians at a national calibre institute like the JNU are 'self proclaimed'? Then why does the govt. have to spend so much money to keep them? They are a bunch of jokers who donot conform to your rightist ideology - isn't it so? I am divided between anger and hilarity after having read your article. '..a number of assertions made by nationalists that the "eminent historians" will and do fight tooth and nail..' - what about it? History is made by assertions? Saraswati drying is a sufficient evidence to claim that there was infact no Aryan incursion? Not only are the professors guilty of preaching the wrong history, but the Marxists are also responsible for this? Mr. genius should take over the faculty at JNU and preach your version of history to make Indians revel in Aryan glory.
RE:Who is this guy?
by Varun Shekhar on Aug 21, 2004 09:25 PM
Rajeev could be,and probably is, left-of-centre. You know of course that you can be pro-India and pro-Hindu and still be left. I consider myself that. Instead of ranting against his article, why not consider the fact that many people( as this message board indicates) simply don't like the dry, dull,cold history that is taught and written in India. They want something a little more soulful. And something that inspires pride in and identification with, 5000 years of Indian history.
The history of India is indeed glorious, but you dont have to invent things to make it even more so.
Just some facts-
1. The last ice age ended 10,000 years ago. You are suggesting a 'cultural continuity' in India since then?
2. There have been numerous migrations of people into India- India is not one homogenous people. Read 'The Journey of Man' by Spencer Wells for instance. The genetic makeup of South Indians, aka Dravidians is different from North Indians. Whether or not you accept an 'Aryan Invasion Theory' or not, there was a migration of people from Central Asian regions to India, and to Europe, and they carried their language with them. This proto language was the root of both Sanskrit and Latin.
All this does not diminish our self worth as Indians, and I say it again, we dont have to invent mythologies for this.
RE:Facts, Mr Srinivasan; stick to the facts!
by m m gupta on Aug 22, 2004 04:19 PM
Dear VIV !
What is your source of knowledge, I dont know . Better know authentically before you can rest.
India was brainwashed by Britishers through her
Macaulte system of education, implemented by
Britishers to create a section of people from amongst Indian intellectuals, who can serve as
mediatories between Britishers and millions of Indians , who were Indians by birth only but British by education and culture.
India is not yet out of that dazed education even after freedom and people are hesitant to believe that Indians were glorious at one time before invasions and rule by Muslims and then Britishers .
Our VEDAS are complete source of education and culture for Indians by virtue of which Indians were at peaks of civilisations at different times even before western developments saw daylight.
Unbelievable ? It has to be , because brains get educated as facts are supplied . Its not your fault. It is the fault of Congress Government who became in charge of the country immediately after Independence. They themselves were ignorant and so have belied people in many ways . TRUTH IS COMING OUT SLOWLY AND SUDDENLY IT WILL OCCUPY ALL HEARTS SOON !
Just consider the following terms used freely in the press.
August 15th is often reffered to as "nations birthday". Really?
"Founding fathers of India". Congress?? sorry !! the founding fathers of "India" lived more than five thousand years ago on the banks of the river Sindhu. The term founding fathers is more relevant for a country like United States of America which was indeed a nation newly born two centuries ago.
"Father of the nation". Mahatma Gandhi ? What? does that mean "India" never existed before Gandhi was born? how can father be born when the child is already 5000 years old?
