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India has cascading inequalities


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mahesh
highly partial article
by mahesh on Aug 13, 2004 02:00 AM

this article is highly partial and one-sided. No uppercaste people even consider manusmriti as a good book...the author is highly misinformed and is not fit to write stupid articles like this...the author is mis-informed about the recruitment in US which is also based on contacts, sifarish etc, even though there is no corruption.

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Sanjay
India is marked by cascading inequalities
by Sanjay on Aug 13, 2004 01:56 AM

Why does Bidwai try to obfuscate the subject in every debate he participates in? In the first 4 paragraphs, there is a strong implied statement that the newspapers discriminate based on the "varna system".

I have 2 points to make.
1). If you want to fix the system, you have to pinpoint the discrimination and fix it at that level. The reality is that the discrimination happens early on at the educational, social level. Forcing every employer to employ substandard workers is a recipe for doom. Doom for the employer, doom for the economy and ultimately, doom for everyone. The solution is to provide real equal educational opportunities to allow the disadvantaged lower caste members to make it purely on their own merit, which they have as much as anyone else.

2). The basis of reservation must be changed from being caste-based to being poverty/income-based. All the victims of oppression that Bidwai lists in his graphic examples will automatically fall under the new poverty/income-based reservation approach. What it will exclude are the many wealthy government servants who have already benefited from past reservation. It will also be truly caste-blind as the constitution demands.

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Bharadwaj
Beware of what you say
by Bharadwaj on Aug 13, 2004 01:49 AM

Beware of what you say Mr. Bidwai. Don't generalize and stereotype, like you have done in the following sentence below...Did you grow up in 1800 AD ?

"Dalits must take off their shoes and their women must uncover their faces while passing through an upper-caste area; their dead cannot be carried through savarna streets."







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Nayagan
What were you smoking?
by Nayagan on Aug 13, 2004 01:48 AM

While we cannot deny the fact that the Law Books were particularly unkind and insensitive to the lower castes and women, it is however important to remember that the dharma shastras do not enjoy the same status as the Vedas. They need not necessarily be accepted as final authority on any issue, unless your own sense of justice agrees with them. Unlike the Vedas they are neither eternal nor fallible since they are products of human intellect and social and political circumstances. They are not derived from the Divine directly. They are produced in a particular age, according to the demands and general awareness of that age. Because of this they are prone to be defective and controversial even, Therefore in the event of any doubt or dispute regarding any information contained in these scriptures, one should check whether the information is line with the tenets of the Vedas and if it is not we can safely set it aside. The Vedas do not discriminate between man and woman. Not do they suggest any caste discrimination. Out of the thousands of hymns contained in the Vedas a few are quoted as the basis for caste systems. These hymns are clever manipulations or inventions(hinduwebsite.com)

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Nayagan
What were you smoking?
by Nayagan on Aug 13, 2004 01:45 AM

Prafool seems to be a rabid communist. As any person 100% dedicated to a specific ideology he has stopped being rational. The affirmative action practised in the US, by the govt. is based upon local minority composition, and by the private sector is voluntary. These companies vie with one another to show that they have a open-door policy for talented individuals from any part of the world. One has to bear in mind that all the best brains migrate to US for higher studies and this affirmative action shows the foreign students how tolerant the company management really is of diversity.



Moreover, we don't have to use US as a benchmark for everything. If you really were smart enough to understand the undercurrents in western society then you'll probably start singing praise of Indian uppercastes and how lucky the minorities in India really are.



It defeats common sense to have a private sector and allow governments to dictate how they should run their business. It is called shooting yourself in the foot. No MNC will come to India they would rather prefer an authoritarian China. But then thats exactly what Indian commies like Prafool really wants.

(Contd.)

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Raj Rajyagor
Oh stop with the manusmritu rubbish.
by Raj Rajyagor on Aug 13, 2004 01:38 AM

The article makes sweeping generalizations that don't apply everywhere.



The survey in newspapers in one office or one business cannot be extrapolated to every business all over India.



Manusmruti applied to society over 4000 years ago. Don't talk about todays laws using a 4000 year old text that most people haven't read.



NOn indians apply this wrong comparison to India and Hinduism all the time. WE don't need people supposedly 'intellectuals' to buy into this false analogy.



Modern day India should be judged on todays laws not manusmruti.



Yes there are injustices but selective writing and false analogies do not a good solution make.



False generalizations and sweeping statements don't make your assumptions, premises or judgements any sounder because you have a forum to publish them in.



How many people actually know the manusmruti?



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Joel Satheesh
Grossly exagrerated
by Joel Satheesh on Aug 13, 2004 01:36 AM

The reason you have written such a exaggerated article is because you fail to ask the question "WHY?". The reason is - not because dalits and SC/ST's are discriminated, but because many are not having the necessary training or education to compete. So, the govt should concentrate on giving better education for them. Pls don't compare the companies from US (IBM, Walmart) to Indian companies. In US the education system is very different. The minorities in US get pretty good education compared to the one which the dalits/SC/ST's get in India. We all tend to compare US with India for every single problem, but we need to understand there are lots of differences between both the countries to do a 1-1 comparison. Your points are wayward and is not attacking the problem, rather they are invoking emotions.
I live in a small town in TN, and I haven't heard any widespread discrimination against dalits/SC/ST. There are some isolated incidences, which the law enforcing agencies with their sweeping powers have to take care of. These agencies need to do their work right.
Your examples "like a dalit having his/her lips cut-off" are all stupid examples. You live 100 years back. Move ahead.

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sulakshan mandke
praful the insane
by sulakshan mandke on Aug 13, 2004 01:35 AM

sire,
i have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. doesnt relate to the new india. haan, maybe still practised in ultra rural india, and needs to be immediately dealt with. but please dont generalize for the whole. and to add to the point, the majority (which surprisingly consitute only 10 % of the population, viz. the ones who are not "minorities") are also at the receiving end of a vehement philosophy (haha) of the vote mongering parties. if u want obcs to excel in the corporate sector, ask them to produce the results. the fruits will themselves fall in front of their feet.

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Vikas
Why dont you go to SC/ST Doctor when you fell ill ?
by Vikas on Aug 13, 2004 01:32 AM

Hey Prafulla,

Nest time you fell ill or have a doctor make sure you have the appointment from a SC / ST doctor and not a upper caste doctor

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