RE:thanks for the dumb film
by harish sowkur on Feb 12, 2007 10:55 PM
I can bet, there would be no communal clashes in Gujarat in near future. Muslims have got the real taste of Hindu retaliation.. GUJARAT HAS BEEN THE VICTIM OF ISLAMIC AGGRESSION FOR SEVERAL CENTURIES(READ HISTORY U WILL KNOW THAT)..EVERYTIME HINDUS WERE THE SUFFERERS..
Pseudo Secularists make blah blah about Gujarat riots..but keep mum on Kashmir violance where Hindus and Sikhs are still being killed..Islamic aggression has now reached Parliment..
In most of the Anti national cases muslims are the culprits..
I Really wonder why Muslims keep mum on terrorist Jehadi attacks in India? Why don't they protest if they don't support it?
And we the Citizens of India have still sleep ing..
RE:RE:thanks for the dumb film
by F17 on Feb 13, 2007 01:23 AM
You will never be happy 'coz you have already made up your mind... Let me ask you why do you have such inferiority complex... Muslims ruled India for only few centuries... India was mostly ruled by Hindu Kings... In your lesson to history we did had most muslim rulers taking care of the hindus with a few exceptions which includes hindu kings as well... but you have taken this to your heart... You simply refuse to accept that even during Mugal era kings never ordered to exterminate Hindu's totally. Muslims also fought for indipendence but we all simply refuse to accept this... What is happening in Kashmir is Pakistan sponsered.. Terrorist attacks are mostly done by PoK kashmiris & pakistanis... How many muslims outside Kashmir are responsible for bombings... check the fraction.... Its the insecurity which right wing outfits instill in comman man that people start believing that muslims will take over this country. Its their agenda for their bread & butter to be in power & limelight...
About those anti national cases.... Don't forget ULFA killings in Assam & other terrorist outfits fighting the state in whole of north east.. Also we should not forget Naxalis.... So do you still believe that Hindus are not indulging in anti national tactics...
Also muslims do protest to such activities but its not properly covered by the media coz its nothing sensational... If there is a story of any bombing then who will want to telecast protest against such bombings... Its not commercially viable...
RE:RE:RE:thanks for the dumb film
by s vln on Feb 13, 2007 09:14 AM
DEAR F17
You have made an excellent case of an Islamic Insurgent, but did you not read Huningtons CLASH OF CIVILIZATION, or better in history as you are a history buff, try recalling Md Ghazni and Md Ghouri, or for that matter mughals who killed their own brothers and sisters like animals to get to power or Last Mughal King Aurangazeb who jailed his own father to death
so do u say only kashmiris do the bombings, then who is dawood or shakeel et al
Hindus may be misguided and may do some anti-national stuff but you guys are rightly guided by your master to be pro-neighbouring countries
try seeing the reservations that these politicians are trying to offer muslims or your personal law board...DOES ANY COUNTRY GIVE YOU GUYS SO MUCH ??
ARE YOU NOT EQUAL TO HINDUS OR MAJORITY, WHAT ARROGATES YOU TO BE ABOVE LAW
NO SECULAR NATION IN THIS WORLD ALLOWS THIS TREATMENT TO MINORITES
YOU ARE LUCKY ...YOU ARE BORN IN INDIA IF YOU WERE IN PAKISTAN AS A HINDU THEN I BET YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN IT
RE:RE:RE:RE:thanks for the dumb film
by F17 on Feb 13, 2007 12:02 PM
Md Gazni & Md. Gauri were mongol thieves.. They were not here to rule this country but to steal gold.. they were not preachers.... And we all know Mongols... Why do you see every muslim in India a pro paki. Do muslims even know who is the leader of opp. in pakistan.... this is the mis guidence fed to you...
About the reservations lets see... To start with all reservations must be abolished.... But India has given reservations to Sc/St. which belong to a perticular community.... Muslims are not the beneficiory... Personally I don't want any reservation to any community including muslims.... but we should resist all reservations & govt. should drop this shortcut 'coz they were not able to provide education & employmnet to people from every community...
Lastly how many jehadi outfits are there outside kashmir.. allover india working against India... Even Muslims want peace.... but politicians try the same old policy of divide & rule to run this country.... Who says muslims are not proud of India... have you spoken to the youth of India..
You believe what fundamentalist want you to believe.....
The best lesson that people of Gujarat can teach the likes of Rahul.... whoever he is, is to let him release his film in theaters and let flop at cash counters.
This is best question of this chat. India has full of Rahul Dholakia's who are pseudo seculars looking for soft deals like this. They don't have guts to produce films or write anythink about Godhra.Shame.
RE:Subramanya, Good Question
by on Feb 12, 2007 09:06 PM
Why do can you not accept a few things. An innocent killed whether in Godhra or in any other place is the same.
If someone questions the butchering of 2000 people throughout the state without any crime of theirs (it was a bunch of hooligans in Godhra who burnt the train not they) then that is a great service.
If you have a problem with that then it raises questions on your moral worldview rather than anything else in the world. So think and ask your heart what you are against.
RE:Subramanya, Good Question
by ron on Feb 12, 2007 10:06 PM
well, this director did not make a film on the burning of the train, why don't u? the reactions of the people on this page is a sad indicator on the general mindset of the people in this country. whoever burnt that train in godhra, maybe a bunch of hooligans, politically inspired crooks or for that matter a group of fundamentalist muslims, how is the wave of madness that followed justified? it is shocking to read comments in the chat explaining how they were just "natural reactions". a mob spotting the crooks involved in burning the train and murdering them would still be an extrajudicial act but atleast it would be understandable if someone were to stand and defend those actions. but killing of innocents? innocent muslims were systemically butchered when it was the time for all to stand together to raise their anger in one voice against the train burning. how would we hindus feel if say, we are walking in an alley and some muslims come and beat us up for no fault of ours just because some violent hindu groups (say bagranj dal or shiv sena) have gone amuck bashing up muslims or doing their regular activities like protesting using violence against some specific group. if you feel that such a beating is criminal and unjustified, just spare a thought for the innocent victims of the riots who were mercilessly slaughtered because someone (most prolly some muslims, altho unconfirmed) burnt a train. and what is this pseudo secularism? i'd rather knock on the doors of heaven with a label of a pseudo secular hanging around my neck rather than being a person who supports murder of innocents. It is movies like these which make people reflect on the actions and understand how there can be no reason to support or justify such barbaric activities, but here the general mood seems to be that of resentment against depiction of hindus as perpetrators instead of victims. yes, i do understand that we hindus, a generally peace loving people, have been victims of terrible crimes and gross injustice throughout history, but should we go on and paint the country red with the blood of innocents and thus quench our thirst of our lust for revenge?? how can anyone have any kind of sympathy for the violent murderers and rapists who went on a rampage beacause a train was burnt, i just cannot understand. "What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?" - Mahatma Gandhi
RE:RE:RE:Subramanya, Good Question
by ron on Feb 13, 2007 01:09 AM
dear jairaj, is the situation in israel and palestine any better for it? is that the kind of environment where you would want to live in? a place where mindless violence causes havoc and hundreds lie butchered and many others orphaned and homeless. an eye for an eye making everyone blind... well, ya, lets do that here too. lets kill some muslims so that they kill some of us hindus. maybe by violence, murder and bloodshed we can cock a snook at the pages of history which remind us of our painful past and redeem ourselves. by killing innocent people belonging to one section of the community or the other (whether hindu or muslim or whatever) instead of bringing the guilty (the people who burned the train) to justice, by heeding to frenzied calls of "paying by the same coin" by opportune and selfish politicians instead of having the courage to do what is right and fight against violence, we will show the world how glorious our civilization is and how strong and brave we hindus have become, sheesh! for god's sake, before calling yourself a hindu, just try to be a freaking PERSON first! realise that whether it is the hindus burning in a train or muslims being roasted in the best bakery, they are people like you, me and everybody else. lets be angry at the philosophy and actions that lead to bloodshed of innocents rather than make merry seeing the blood flow and goad ourselves that the payment has been made with interest and in the same coin.
RE:RE:Subramanya, Good Question
by Shantan Kumar on Feb 12, 2007 10:47 PM
Good point! It might have a violent reaction by Hindu hooligans... but the point most people in the chat are trying to make is, why is it that only the post-Godhra incidents are highlighted? So much so that a democratically elected Chief Minister of the state is denied a visa to the United States for "perpetrating" crimes. That to most Gujaratis and Hindus is ridiculous. I don't support killing of any human beings... but the blatant minortyism followed by different parties really makes my blood boil. It is these people who have divided people in the name of votes. And if most Hindus hate muslims, it is because they refuse to join the mainstream. They talk nonsense about Shariah and wanting to produce more & more babies. They cannot understand the fact that we have scarce resources and need to reduce population. They cannot understand that just like Hindus have accepted them and their religion, they also need to accept us. Systematic killing of Hindus in Kashmir has been the norm, so how long do you expect Hindus to keep quiet?
And why is it that every person only wants to make anti-Hindu movies? It's because these are the least controversial movies because Hindus will accept them in the name of "Secularism". And that is what is called Pseudo Secularism - where Muslim lives are more valuable than Hindu lives, where Hindus are 2nd class citizens even though they are 80% of the country's population!
And you mentioned that you'd rather be called "pseudo secular" than support the killing a innocent human being. I too share your feeling, but "Pseudo Secularism" itself means that your heart bleeds for only one section of the population. So, a Hindu Death effectively doesn't cause Pseudo secularists as much pain as a Muslim Death. And that is not because they're really pained by muslim deaths, but it's only because they have an eye on the illiterate muslim votes. Those muslims vote only on religious lines and nothing else... no wonder they're languishing at the bottom of the human development index!
RE:RE:RE:Subramanya, Good Question
by ron on Feb 13, 2007 01:48 AM
everybody pointing out the fact that the godhra incident was not highlighted suggests a view that if the complete picture was to be shown in the movie, ie. incidents relating to the burning of the train followed by "justifiable reactions" by hindus, then it would show the mob in a better light and make them look more human rather than monsters. really, eh? does ANYTHING justify the slaughter and the carnage? and do you want these criminals to be portrayed from a more sympathetic view point? i haven't watched the movie yet but one can only guess that the incidents culminating in the train burning weren't depicted because there was no circumstantial and substantial evidence to show who exactly were those people. we all think of them to be a group of muslims who carried out this ghastly incident as a "revenge" for whatever these people in the train had gone to do in ayodhya and most probably they were a group of muslims, but, i reiterate, no one is sure. are you? it would have been sily to show who exactly were involved in that train massacre if no one exactly knows... it was a sad incident but it came out of the blue. the parade of terror that followed the train burning though could have been dealt with, could have been fought against and it wasn't. the inaction on the part of the state and the active involvement of the police or passive connivance shocked everyone (with a conscience) across the country and the world. the chief monster called on for the bandh to go on successfully instead of calling for calm by motivating people not to vent their anger that they bore for the criminals who burnt the train towards innocent citizens. instead of taking action to impose curfew and provide security to defenseless targets, he saw it as a massive opportunity to further his political ambitions and what more, it did work in the aftermath. i did not shed a tear for him when he was denied a visa to enter the united states, infact i was happy that this incident atleast made the injustice he could have averted more visible to the world. once we feel the same anger for injustice and crimes perpetrated against anyone regardless of whether they are hindu or muslim, we will see that there are two types of people - those who are right and those who are not. let us not be blinded by fervent calls by selfish men who point out that we as a religious community are in danger and that slitting a few throats would tilt the balance on our side. i do not feel hindus are treated as second class citizens in india. yes there are politicians who appease one communtiy or the other whether they are muslim or "scheduled castes" but once we win the battles with the scoundrels in our own hearts, the ones on the podiums will lose their voice and fall too.
RE:RE:RE:Subramanya, Good Question
by Beyond Prejudices on Feb 12, 2007 11:47 PM
Shantan, the following points for you 1- It was always that Godhra has been condemned. 2- Godhra was one act in which before the administration can react the henious event happenned. It cannot be justified in NO WAY AT ALL. It was BRUTAL. 3- The main problem after that was not only that any Muslim was targeted in Gujrat but that the government which is chosen to maintain law and order worked actively in the massacre. Just because of that they violated the oaths that they had taken. In Kashmir or anywhere else the government never started participating in the violence itself. 4- If you rejoice in a violent reaction directed towards innocent people then their is one word which can come close but still not appropriate: FANATIC. There is absolutely no justification for that. No religion condones that including Hinduism. 5- Why is Parzania anti-Hindu movie? Is showing that killing of children and raping women is wrong anti-Hindu? I thought Hinduism teaches to fight against these acts. So instead of it being an anti-Hindu movie it is people who give such arguments are anti-Hindu.
RE:RE:RE:Subramanya, Good Question
by F17 on Feb 13, 2007 01:40 AM
I see where you are going.... The main pain a common hindu suffers is the plight of hindus in Kashmir.. But tell me are muslims not dying in kashmir.... And what this has to do with muslims outside kashmir. Muslims who have never visited Kashmir. The plight of Kashmiri pundits are known by all & everybody support their cause... but killing muslims all over India 'coz a foreign country & its jehadi groups are killing Indian Hindus in kashmir... its ridiculus.... If you are so sorry then you should take your fight to kashmir.... or t PoK but killing Indian muslims is not at all justified....
Also the contribution to India's population is not just Muslims deed. After 60 years of independance India's population is 120 crores with muslim polulation ~20-25 crores... even if other religion make it to another 30 corores then again there are roughly 70 crore Hindus responsible more for its population explotion...
You are misguided, Lastly what did people out side godhra did for which they were exterminated like animals.... were they all in godhra burning the train.... I don't think so..
Rahul is justified in talking about equal rights, freedom of speech etc, he cannot understand when you talk about freedom of rights which is one sided in india. I bet let Mr. Rahul stay in india for a decade, he would understand the pyscho of congress and the so called securalr forces, who are biased. Hindus are the most secular people on planet earth, you have to believe me people, hindus cannot imgaine watching movie made on kashmir pundits cleansing, Godhra in india, because politians who are cursing banrangi for opposing movie in gujrat would openly oppose movie made on kilings. Mr. Rahul pls try making it and iam sure you will not be even able to complete it.
RE:Rahul cannot be balmed...
by Pranta Pathik on Feb 12, 2007 07:42 PM
Mr. Ashish Kumar what happened in Kashmir that was not state promoted,that is called terrorism. but what happened in gujrat that was state promoted riot. A government must not be for only hindus or muslims. government must be for every commonpeople. all kashiri pundits were common people so as gujrat riot victims. you have to prove that there is basis different between you and terrorist. there may be some different between you with anybody but everybody has its own democratic right to express himself. this is democracy.
RE:RE:Rahul cannot be balmed...
by shivani desai on Feb 14, 2007 05:58 AM
pranta,
Now you are insulting ppl of gujrat who have elected Mr.Modi three time and will do it again.WEll gujrat is the state who gave sheltor to parsis who came from Iran and where till today they can live peacefully and obey their own religion...why dont u ask them how guj is and how guj ppl....and it was a natural reaction not a state sponcered one.....tell me what would u do if somebody burns alive one of your close reative?
RE:RE:RE:Rahul cannot be balmed...
by Ritul Shah on Feb 12, 2007 10:44 PM
forget practicing democratic rights, just try to stay in srinagar for 2 weeks
RE:RE:RE:RE:Rahul cannot be balmed...
by F17 on Feb 13, 2007 01:47 AM
I don't get it.. you are justfying that 'coz fanatics in other countries do not have respect for humanity & human rights we will not have these things here in India as well.... What has Indian muslim outside Kashmir done to suffer such plight.. Just 'coz people are killed by fanatics in those countries we will also be fanatics... Some teaching you absorbed from a thousand year old religion....
Bah! These guys are hardly Hindus. Whenever there is a resurgence of investment in Gujarat or whenever Modi gets a little more popular, Boom, along comes Golly Gee Whiz what about the Gujarat post Godhra riots? Sorry Dholakia, sorry Arundhati, sorry Medha Patkar, sorry Aamir Khan, sorry Mahesh Bhat and sorry all you pseudo seculars, that happened six years back. Grow up buddies get a life! Any way it would be interesting to find out who has actually financed the film.
RE:RE:Pseudoseculars
by Nischal Maniar on Feb 13, 2007 03:16 AM
get your facts right Mr......Number of awards Aamir khan has won...are more than salman khan..... Did any of salman khan movie got nominated for Oscars ?. --- Think before talking anything crap
RE:Pseudoseculars
by shivani desai on Feb 14, 2007 06:00 AM
I can give you their names and telephone nos both if you are interested. Mr.Sarin(CA ,usa) Mr.Kamal Patel
Rahulji, Your effort is commendable anyday.... Albert Einstein once said, " Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds"....hatred breeds hatred and mediocre mind forget that, "Hatred is an acid that harms the vessel more than on which it is thrown"..... keep up ur good work.
u show only gujarat riots,but nothing abt the 1986 kashmir ethnic cleansing of the kashmiri hindus.or in 1947 when muslims started to kill hindus in pakistan etc.
pls show the truth.
there is no god/allah and religion is a disease.
the hate filled religion judo christianity islam will cuase nuke world war 3 soon.
RE:what abt kashmiri hindus ?
by mohd khan on Feb 12, 2007 06:42 PM
Hi Girish, In kashmir so many people r getting killed , not only Hindu and well i just want to mention that u cant compare this with gujrat case , coz no one saying that they were terrorist who killed so many muslims in gujrat.If u want to campare both then say they r terrorist too who did that mass killing in gujrat.
RE:what abt kashmiri hindus ?
by on Feb 12, 2007 09:11 PM
The problem with your logic is that all of us say that in Kashmir it is terrorism and we are against that. Whether it is shown in a movie or not. Then there are many films like Roja who showed that. No one says it is correct.
You say what happenned in Gujarat was well deserved. That too when it is state sponsored. If anyone speaks against it he becomes anti-Hindu. How is he anti-Hindu? Is Hinduism teaching to kill and rape women and children. That is why if someone speaks against it he is anti-Hindu. Map your thoughts man.
RE:RE:what abt kashmiri hindus ?
by shivani desai on Feb 14, 2007 06:04 AM
and what about ppl being burned alive in train....they were just religious people ...not terriorist dear.....what about their chilldren,their widows,their parents?
its not about being anti -hindu..but you have to respect majority of the people their sentiments...and one shd stop pampering minority ppl as well...its like if you have handicape child then dont pamper him..teach him how to catch fish.....
RE:Pseudosecular king
by ravi kumar on Feb 13, 2007 05:32 PM
mAHESH BHATT IS A MUSLIM MAN SO WHY BET THAT WILL BE THE CASE SOME PEOPLOE JUST HIDE THEMSELVES BEHIND HINDU NAMES. iTS POPULAR AMONG MUSLIM AND WRITTEN IN THEIR RELIGIOUS BOOK, THAT A GOOD MUSLIM CAN LIE AND CHEAT TO NON MUSLIMS THEY ARE ONLY PROHIBITED TO TELL AND STAY ON TRUTH WHEN THEY ARE DEALING WITH MUSLIMS. SO IT IS RELIGIOUS FOR THEM TO DECIEVE HINDUS. ONLY HINDUS ARE A PURILE, AND THEY HAVE AMONG THEM PSEUDO SECULAR VIBHISHANS. IS THERE ANYTHING LEFT TO BE SAID.
RE:RE:Pseudosecular king
by F17 on Feb 13, 2007 08:05 PM
Yes much needed to be said..... Have you read Koran I think not.. You read the thought in a website & now you are preoccupied with things which are not entirely true...
I suggest you read an english version of Koran which has all the meanings given... Every sentence in Koran was written with a partucular context which explains why such thing is said...
Once you read the context you would understand what really Koran preaches.... I know the website you visited... its farce... Even Geeta tells Arjun to kill his relatives but there was a valid context to do so.... likewise every sentence in Koran which tells a muslim to walk a path is on certain valid context....
RE:RE:RE:Pseudosecular king
by on Feb 14, 2007 02:20 PM
The important question here is "are muslims involed in terrorism or not"thats our main concern.They might have read/not read the koran...whenever there is a riot they say only few muslims were involved...how long do we have to listin to this crap...not all muslims are bad...but in the name religon...there are the only ones(exceptions are there) who spread hatred.yes there are terrorists who are hindus...but who donot fight on a hindu ideology. I think islam seriously needs some reforms...otherwise not only islam...the whole human race will suffer
RE:Pseudosecular king
by Jital Patel on Feb 12, 2007 09:59 PM
If Mr. Dholakia is a pseudosecular king, then all these pro hindutvavadi are all psudeohindutvavadi. They are not true representative of hindu religion. They are just bullying soft people on the name of religion. They are as bad as Islamic or christan fundamentalists.
RE:RE:Pseudosecular king
by harish sowkur on Feb 12, 2007 10:42 PM
In majority of the cases,communal war/clashes happens between muslims and other religions...Followers of Islam just fail to live in harmony with other religions...see what's happening across world..
1.Iraq(muslim) and america(christian) 2.Palestain(muslim) and Israel(Jews) 3.Russian Army and Chechanya Militants(muslim). These militants are trying to devide russia.. 4.In India, clashes between Muslim and Hindus 5.Even in China Muslim extremists tried to devide some part of china as a separate nation. Chinese Army took very strong measures to contain them. 6. They even destroyed Bhamiyan Buddha Statues in Afghanistan.,which is sacred for Buddhists. 7. And now very recently Islamic extremists have kidnapped Army Chief Of Philippines, in order to release captured militants..
Whether the fellow readers agree or not... In most of the communal clashes muslims are involved against other religions..
They believe non-muslims are Kafir's. If such behaviour continues,Allah save them..before they get vanished.. There is limit to everybody's patience..
RE:RE:RE:Pseudosecular king
by F17 on Feb 13, 2007 01:58 AM
1) If US invades India will Hindu's not fight back 2) If Jews come, Settle & take over India like Palestine will you not fight back 3) Russia captured Chechnya in the USSR era 4) China do not endorse any religion 'coz according to communist there should not be any religion which includes Hinduism.. 5) Bamiyan Buddha were destroyed by Taliban fanatics who didn't had any respect for humanity let alone their own people who were mercilessly killed by them.... Also remember Afganis were fighting Taliban even before you knew of Taliban... Ever heard of General Ahemad Shah Masud of Northern Alliance....
Kafir is an arabic word which means Non believer (nastik in hindi), don't know why people ar irritated with it.... its not an abuse or a slang...
You cannot blame only muslims to incite riots.... Even hindu's have but irrespective of who has.... its not justified to start killing each other....
RE:RE:RE:Pseudosecular king
by Jital Patel on Feb 12, 2007 11:23 PM
In India, there is a clash between hindu vs. hindu as well as hindu vs. christan because we are unmoral people. We glorify the clashes of people between different religions and castes rather than solving problem peacefully. We hindus act like that we are morally superior than any other people on planet earth. That is not true at all. I am not saying that hindus are bad people. So many hindu nuts like Togadia also believe that muslims should thrown out to Arabian sea just like some muslims believe that non-muslims are kafirs. That makes us as bad as muslims, doesnot that!
RE:RE:RE:RE:Pseudosecular king
by shivani desai on Feb 14, 2007 06:07 AM
jital you shd brush up your knowlege about histor...hindus have given sheltor to parsi who came from iran,and many more....they are one of the most braod minded ppl...but when soembody attacks on your selfesteem u cant wait and watch madam....
RE:RE:RE:RE:Pseudosecular king
by Jital Patel on Feb 12, 2007 11:56 PM
So many movies were made on kashmir militancy in bollywood. Bollywood is not psudosecular, but the people who claim bollywood as psudosecular are real psudohinduvadi. These people are total biased in nature.
