by winning bengal assembly she has just landed on another steping stone in her carrier she will create many more singurs to become national figure.ambition of mamta is in direct proportion of suffering of bengal.
No one is asking the very basic questions. There were, in Singur, landless labourers & land owners , now divided between willing & unwilling. Whether any of these people are better off now compared to their condition before this chaos. Whether any of them can improve their standard of living doing what they have been doing, if either of the State or the Tatas wins the case. Politicians are politicians, but the so called "intellectuals" adding fuel to the fire from the beginning, has no idea of the toil , hardwork, uncertainty & rigour that are associated with farming, irrespective of whether the land is 3 or 2 crop a year. And there are other stake holders too - the people living nearby & the state as a whole. Who will make up for their loss of opportunity ? Has any one asked how many of these poor people want their subsequent generations to work in fields like these ? Where in India is agriculture a sought after livelihood, especially when land holdings are so small ? Politicians & intellectuals have condemned these poor people for ever & every one knows who the gainer is.
Re: Basic issues
by Tushar Ray on Jun 27, 2012 02:46 PM
Your view point is absolutely correct. Most of the farmers are marginal, owning an average 3/4 bihas of land, which is not enough to sustain any family economically. But again the romantic vision of being a land owner is to o hard to give up. Forget about the politicians, they are not bothered who's going to survive, as long as their own needs are taken care of
No one is asking the very basic questions. There were, in Singur, landless labourers & land owners , now divided between willing & unwilling. Whether any of these people are better off now compared to their condition before this chaos. Whether any of them can improve their standard of living doing what they have been doing, if either of the State or the Tatas wins the case. Politicians are politicians, but the so called "intellectuals" adding fuel to the fire from the beginning, has no idea of the toil , hardwork, uncertainty & rigour that are associated with farming, irrespective of whether the land is 3 or 2 crop a year. And there are other stake holders too - the people living nearby & the state as a whole. Who will make up for their loss of opportunity ? Has any one asked how many of these poor people want their subsequent generations to work in fields like these ? Where in India is agriculture a sought after livelihood, especially when land holdings are so small ? Politicians & intellectuals have condemned these poor people for ever & every one knows who the gainer is.
While traveling by Durgapur Express way I found on both the sides of the road small and medium sized factories and commercial establishments have come up. Even in Singur, adjacent plots of Govt. acquisition land have been acquired by industries and started factories. What benefit the owners have got there is any ones' guess. The State Government should acquire some land from willing sellers and distribute to the so called unwilling owners and allow Tatas and other anciliary industries to use the land for overall development of Singur. There is a limit to deprive the poor people for political gain.
Re: Singur as I saw.
by Sunit Kumar on Jun 25, 2012 09:23 PM
What limit for 60 long years the entire India has been deprived for one reason or another, u guys from Bengal are special ? No u will get deprived for ages to come untill there is a revolution !!
,improved its reputation among investors and helped to attract other quality investors / industries.
This is what has been happening at Sanand Gujrat where Nano had to relocate from Singur. International auto makers like Maruti - Suzuki and Ford have followed Tata to Sanand.
By itself the Nano plant in Singur would not have created many direct jobs, but there would have been many indirect jobs - booth from the Plant as well as the suddenly cash-rich land -sellers.
Unfortunately the Tatas insisted on Singur - a very fertile multi - crop area that employed many laborers who would have never been re-employed after the Nano plant started opearting. Tata insisted on Singur because of its proximity to Calcutta even though they have a lot of land and an Auto plant at Kharagpur, which is closer to Jamshedpur, the location of many Tata industries. Mamata Banerjee simply exploited the volatile situation at Singur and the CPM Govt. was already to tainted after 30 years of lethargic rule to resist her charges.
Re: HOW TATAs WANTED TO EXPLOIT WEST BENGAL & ITS GOVT
by Kabeer on Jun 25, 2012 01:30 PM
How Tatas ripped Gujarat Govt later:
Gujarat Govt through GIDC had given a Loan of Rs.9,570 Cr (i.e. 25% of Gujarat Annual State Budget) to Tatas @ 0.1% p.a. interest for 20 years. Annual principal instalment is Rs.478.50 Cr.
If GIDCs interest cost is 11%, the loss to GIDC is 10.90%. In 20 years, during the currency of the loan, GIDC receives from Tatas Rs. 100 Cr as interest @ 0.1% p.a. but incurs a cost of Rs. 11,053 Cr. In 20 years this interest loss translates to Rs. 10,953 Cr (11,503-100)
Re: Re: HOW TATAs WANTED TO EXPLOIT WEST BENGAL & ITS GOVT
by Kabeer on Jun 25, 2012 01:33 PM
California’s Tesla Motors’ Example!
Around the sametime, Tesla Motors in California was given a land of only 100 acres and only for 30 year lease. The investment by Tesla is $250 mln and at Rs. 47/- per $, it translates to Rs.1,175 Cr which is nearly equal to Tatas investmetn of Rs.1,300 Cr (2000 cr plus, is hog wash. Excess above is only cost overruns!) but on a land of 10 times higher i.e. 1000 acres for a 90 year lease.
If Tesla can produce cars on a similar investment with 1/10th of the land, why Tatas want 10 times of that land?
If Tatas are producing a common man car, Tesla is producing an equally impressive far superior high technology green car!
Even in Capitalist US which has 3 times of Indias land with only 1/3 of Indias population, gives only 1/10 of land and only for 1/3rd of the lease period and that too non-farming land which is not acquired forcibly from private individuals. Contrary to popular perception, land is scarce in India.
Why free market pundits do not advocate free market costs, particularly when the products are sold at market driven prices but not on subsidies either to the farmers or WBIDC or the Govt?
Efficiency of private sector can not be gauged in this method.
The argument of Govt earning taxes is crap! All taxes are pass-throughs to end customers; while profits remain with Tata Motors.
Secondly, I have not taken into account sales tax loans, tax holidays etc., which will subsidise the so called revenue generation in
Re: Re: Re: HOW TATAs WANTED TO EXPLOIT WEST BENGAL & ITS GOV
by peter paul on Jun 25, 2012 02:12 PM
All these figures look impressive, if true. I dont want to argue what is true and what is not.
The point is - if you look at industry stadard, generally the industrialists do not start business without subsidies due to high cost involved. subsidy is the main reason for rush towards solar power, think of any big name, and he is there. similarly, if you look at food packaging industry there are many incentives subsidies given by maharashtra (not sure about other states), upto 50 % of cost. so subsidies are a part and parcel of state-business deals, and subsidies are a form to lure big investments to generate employment and opportunities. ofcourse the quantum of subsidy and land can be a point of argument, but terming 100 % of this as waste is stretching too much. Every state government wants its people to be employed, and hence the benefits, this is also a competition of sorts. For a WB like state which is, sorry to say, a junk the deal is tough to crack.
dont compare tesla with tatas. there is wide gap in the number of cars produced and also the technology & automation, in my view.
Re: Re: Re: Re: HOW TATAs WANTED TO EXPLOIT WEST BENGAL & ITS
by Kabeer on Jun 25, 2012 02:30 PM
Dear Peter,
These figures are from official WBIDC site till one year ago. WBIDC would have taken it off consequent to my criticism much like the Ministry of Finance under Chidambaram took the picture of Liaquat Ali, the First Prime Minister of Pakistan as India's First Finance Minister off the Ministry of Finances site.
Subsidies are to attract investment and to develop remote and barren areas where the State Govts give barren lands which is not for any use and to develop remote areas.
Here in Singur, it is a Farmland and that too a 3 crop a year farm land. Entire Singur block is the most fertile land in the entire West Bengal. Besides, Singur is not a remote area. Singur is bang adjacent to the highway.
Tatas were not doing any favour to any one. They asked for the most developed land and adjacent to the highway.
The whole argument of this land be given to industrialists or Tatas is that employment generation. Where is the guarantee that the project would be a success? As I was advocating and fearing that the Nano may not be a success has come true. How success is Nano in the auto market in India?
When Nano was proposed, many of thosein the MNC AUtoworld stated that it is not economically viably to produce a car under a lac; they were right and they know a thing or two about car manufacturing.
Nano is not an engineering success; it is a financial engineering success.
MNC Auto majors couldnt believe that this quantum of subsidies can be given in India
Re: Re: Re: Re: HOW TATAs WANTED TO EXPLOIT WEST BENGAL & ITS
by Kabeer on Jun 25, 2012 02:31 PM
Dear Peter,
These figures are from official WBIDC site till one year ago. WBIDC would have taken it off consequent to my criticism much like the Ministry of Finance under Chidambaram took the picture of Liaquat Ali, the First Prime Minister of Pakistan as India's First Finance Minister off the Ministry of Finances site.
Subsidies are to attract investment and to develop remote and barren areas where the State Govts give barren lands which is not for any use and to develop remote areas.
Here in Singur, it is a Farmland and that too a 3 crop a year farm land. Entire Singur block is the most fertile land in the entire West Bengal. Besides, Singur is not a remote area. Singur is bang adjacent to the highway.
Tatas were not doing any favour to any one. They asked for the most developed land and adjacent to the highway.
The whole argument of this land be given to industrialists or Tatas is that employment generation. Where is the guarantee that the project would be a success? As I was advocating and fearing that the Nano may not be a success has come true. How success is Nano in the auto market in India?
When Nano was proposed, many of thosein the MNC AUtoworld stated that it is not economically viably to produce a car under a lac; they were right and they know a thing or two about car manufacturing.
Nano is not an engineering success; it is a financial engineering success.
MNC Auto majors couldnt believe that this quantum of subsidies can be given in India
Re: Re: HOW TATAs WANTED TO EXPLOIT WEST BENGAL & ITS GOVT
by pondekathi on Jun 25, 2012 01:47 PM
Kabeer Dada, Good statistics, no one will take till to contest this. Tell me how many people you have gainfully employed till date
Re: Re: Re: HOW TATAs WANTED TO EXPLOIT WEST BENGAL & ITS GOV
by pondekathi on Jun 25, 2012 01:50 PM
Please read 'till as 'time'. In my industryI have 300 people under direct employment, but the best part is indirectly about 1000 family gets employment, or say source of income. How do you look at this logic, instead of stating dry statistics??
