Re: mslm fanatic
by Muhammed ArslanMir on Apr 17, 2010 02:26 AM
If tipu wanted to ururp power none of the wodeyars would be alive, wodeyars are traitors because they sided with british. You chaddi men are unable to digest it, no wonder your chaddi uniform was also ur allegiance to british.
Vijay Mallya is undergoing recession so he sold the sword..:) I was proud of him when he bought back the sword India. I never thought he bought to make profit out of it & sold it back. Shame on him!!! Aaaaaa Tu..
Re: Vijay Mallya is undergoing recession
by R Balasubramanian on Apr 16, 2010 11:39 AM
do you have the same view when you dispose off your ancestors property or sell away the ornaments which your wife brought during her wedding? Its his personal act. No comments. He has not given any undertaking that, he will will re-auction it?
Re: Re: Vijay Mallya is undergoing recession
by mang on Apr 16, 2010 12:12 PM
Balu, I guess you might have not read or forgotten all the hoopla that Vijay Mallya and his clones made when he bought this sword. It was during the election time that he bought the sword and he gave a statement that he is buying it as a proud kannadiga and bringing a piece of history back to Karnataka.
Re: Re: Vijay Mallya is undergoing recession
by Bunda Blr on Apr 16, 2010 12:13 PM
Bala - you need to view this from the point of view of the much fan fare with which Dr. Vijay Mallya displayed the sword prior to one of the earlier elections in the state. Please read the article for more information - http://www.indiaabroad.rediff.com/news/2004/apr/07tipu.htm. Excerpt from that article - "Describing the sword as a "unique piece of history," he said he bought it to restore the "rightful legacy" to Karnataka as he "is a proud Kannadiga.""
Does he cease to be a proud Kannidiga? That is not my problem. But the fact that he is using it to gain public mileage gives others an opportunity to comment on the same when he disposes the sword. I would love to hear his comment here.
Re: Re: Vijay Mallya is undergoing recession
by Haatim on Apr 16, 2010 11:50 AM
well said Mr.Bala. People like Vijay have a lot of opinions and advises for others. Wish they followed thm themselves. I would call it plain HYPOCRISY
Re: Re: Re: Vijay Mallya is undergoing recession
by neeraj pahuja on Apr 16, 2010 12:20 PM
I agree with Vijoy Kuriakose. I very well remember the news splash created by Mallaya when he bought the sword.. that he has brought back glory of India without any support from Indian governemnt.. blah & blah. If it is a personal choice statements like these shouldn't have been made. I am wondering if only the hypocrites rise on top?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Vijay Mallya is undergoing recession
by Vijoy Kuriakose on Apr 16, 2010 12:35 PM
Read this Balu & Haatim Tipu Sultan's sword returns home --- BANGALORE The sword wielded by Tipu Sultan, the most formidable enemy the British faced as they attempted to expand their empire in the Deccan in the 18th century, has returned home.
The 42-inch sword with a calligraphic hilt and encased in a velvet and silver scabbard, was brought here from London by liqour baron and Rajya Sabha member Vijay Mallya, who bagged it an auction for Rs. 10.6 million.
"Since Tipu's sword is the rightful property of India, I decided to bring it back. Except for us, no one has the right to possess it," Mallya said at a press conference.
Tipu Sultan, who ruled Mysore, which forms part of modern-day Karnataka, was the only king of south India who posed a strong challenge to the designs of the expanding British empire.
According to details engraved on the sword, it was seized by the British troops after Tipu Sultan's capital Srirangapatnam fell on May 4, 1799.
According to historians, the sword was Tipu’s most prized possession.
"That this sword of a brave king should have been chosen for presentation to Major General David Baird by those who had served under him demonstrated the age-old ritual of taking the enemy's most prized possession and presenting it to the victor.
"I feel humbled to be able to bring it back to the land of the illustrious monarch and son of Hyder Ali, the legendar
Re: Vijay Mallya is undergoing recession
by The Democracy on Apr 17, 2010 02:38 AM
Vijay Mallya is a businessman and a politician. I repeat a 'politician'. If you know what a politician means in India, then you will no longer be disappointed by the fact that Mallya is making profit out of Tipu's sword.
He may be fighted aganist the British to protect himself and his interest but He had destroyed and killed more people than British.. He looted and destroyed hundreds of temples in Tamil Nadu and Kerala... He is a beast with in a human body...He killed and driven away lot of human beings as they happen to be born as a hindu... Shame to all those who worship him as a hero..Just go thru the history and judge him ...he is zero and not a hero....
Re: Dispose the sword from Inida...
by simran gaikwad on Apr 16, 2010 11:12 AM
its very very sad to see such comments about such a real and only indian hero who gave humilating defeat to mighty british army,which was strongest in the world. we all should not only be proud but praise such a wise and brave personality who said it is better to live like tiger for two days rather than living like dager for thousand year. but historians has always tried to defame him. but his personality will inspire not only indian but also world for thousands of years to come.
Re: Re: Dispose the sword from Inida...
by Rajaji on Apr 16, 2010 11:15 AM
U seriously saying topu defeated British ??? then who was ruling south India and whole India till 1947 ?? He may have won a battle or two but not war ....there is big difference between winning battles and winning wars......all king/nawab in 18th and 19th century India were simply selfish who will do anything to save their skin only...most of 'em supported Britisher against their local enemy.
Re: Re: Re: Dispose the sword from Inida...
by simran gaikwad on Apr 16, 2010 11:37 AM
i am not saying , history has record he gave crushing defeat to british in second mysore war. and bow down the british and dictates his own term of treaty which mighty british had to accept. and it is golden document in indian history as no other indian king was able to inflict such a crushing defeat on enemy. u should go through history deeply.tipu was only flame that was preventing british from capturing india. and after his death only british acquire full control over india
Re: Re: Dispose the sword from Inida...
by R Balasubramanian on Apr 16, 2010 11:42 AM
your history knowledge about Tippu is very short. All historians have distorted the real stories of all rulers who invaded india and looted our treasures and resources. Tippu is one among them. Majority of the invaders of this country were real sadist.
Dont regret for something you are not known fully.
Re: Re: Re: Dispose the sword from Inida...
by simran gaikwad on Apr 16, 2010 11:54 AM
tipu was not invader, he was born in india. it is true that our country has produce jems like tipu but we dont have value for them. in worlds super power america ,NASA has photograph of tipu and his army at their entry gate, as a source of inspiration. he who invented rocket technology and used in battle. thats why america is super power and we indians are their only because no value for our heroes.
Re: Dispose the sword from Inida...
by Nadeem ahamed on Apr 16, 2010 12:23 PM
He further asserts that the acts of Tipu that were constructive towards Hindus were largely political and ostentatious rather than an indication of genuine tolerance
Brittlebank, Hasan, Chetty, Habib and Saletare, amongst others, argue that stories of Tipu Sultan's religious persecution of Hindus and Christians are largely derived from the work of early British authors such as Kirkpatrick[14] and Wilks,[15] whom they do not consider to be entirely reliable.[16] A. S. Chetty argues that Wilks’ account in particular cannot be trusted,[17] Irfan Habib and Mohibbul Hasan argues that these early British authors had a strong vested interest in presenting Tipu Sultan as a tyrant from whom the British had "liberated" Mysore.[18] This assessment is echoed by Brittlebank in her recent work where she writes that Wilks and Kirkpatrick must be used with particular care as both authors had taken part in the wars against Tipu Sultan and were closely connected to the administrations of Lord Cornwallis and Richard Wellesley, 1st Marquess Wellesley.Mohibbul Hasan, Prof. Sheikh Ali, and other historians cast great doubt on the scale of the deportations and forced conversions in Coorg in particular, and Hasan says that the British versions of what happened were intended to malign Tipu Sultan, and to be used as propaganda against him.[20] He argues that little reliance can be placed in Muslim accounts such as Kirmani's Nishan-e Haidari; To B Cont...7
Re: Dispose the sword from Inida...
by Nadeem ahamed on Apr 16, 2010 01:08 PM
Conti15..1400 sepoys and 10 field pieces,was the standard size of the colonial armies.Tipu Sultan seized all the guns and took the entire detachment prisoner.In December 1781 Tipu Sultan successfully seized Chittur from the British.Tipu Sultan had thus gained sufficient military experience by the time Hyder Ali died in December 1782.Tipu Sultan realized that the British were a new kind of threat in India.Upon becoming the Sultan after his father's death later that year,he worked to check the advances of the British by making alliances with the Marathas and the Mughals.The Second Mysore War came to an end with the 1784 Treaty of Mangalore.It was the last occasion when an Indian king dictated terms to the British,and the treaty is a prestigious document in the history of India.The Second Mysore War is also remembered for alleged excesses committed by Hyder Ali and Tipu Sultan in Tanjore.During the period of occupation which lasted six months,Hyder Ali and Tipu Sultan are believed to have impoverished the country.As late as 1784,the Dutch missionary Christian Friedrich Schwarz describes Tipu's alleged abduction of 12,000 children from the region. It is alleged that the invaders plundered the country and took away the cattle and grain.The invasion is believed to have had such an impact on the economy of the country that it did not recover until the start of the nineteenth century.
Re: Dispose the sword from Inida...
by Nadeem ahamed on Apr 16, 2010 12:08 PM
HIS RULE....During his rule, Tipu Sultan laid the foundation for a dam where the famous Krishna Raja Sagara Dam across the river Cauvery was later built.[4][5] He also completed the project of Lal Bagh started by his father Hyder Ali, and built roads, public buildings, and ports along the Kerala shoreline. His dominion extended throughout North Bangalore including the Nandi Hills, Kanivenarayanapura, and Chickballapur. His trade extended to countries which included Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, France, Turkey, and Iran. Under his leadership, the Mysore army proved to be a school of military science to Indian princes. The serious blows that Tipu Sultan inflicted on the British in the First and Second Mysore Wars affected their reputation as an invincible power. Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam, the former President of India, in his Tipu Sultan Shaheed Memorial Lecture in Bangalore (30 November 1991), called Tipu Sultan the innovator of the world's first war rocket. Two of these rockets, captured by the British at Srirangapatna, are displayed in the Royal Artillery Museum in London. Most of Tipu Sultan's campaigns resulted in successes. He managed to subdue all the petty kingdoms in the south. He defeated the Marathas and the Nizams and was also one of the few Indian rulers to have defeated British armies. He is said to have started a coinage system, banking system, a new calendar, and a new system of weights and measures.He was well versed inUrdu,Kannada,Persian,& Arabic. To B Cont
Re: Dispose the sword from Inida...
by Nadeem ahamed on Apr 16, 2010 12:33 PM
conti9. Tipu Sultan does seem to have repossessed unauthorised grants of land made to Brahmins and temples, but those which had proper sanads were not. It was a normal practice for any ruler, Muslim or Hindu, on his accession or on the conquest of new territory.The Srikanteswara temple at Nanjungud was presented with a jewelled cup and some precious stones. To another temple, Nanjundeswara, in the same town of Nanjungud, he gave a greenish linga; to Ranganatha temple at Srirangapatana he gifted seven silver cups and a silver camphor burner. This temple was hardly a stone's throw from his palace from where he would listen with equal respect to the ringing of temple bells and the muezzin's call from the mosque.Tipu sent a letter on January 19, 1790 to Budruz Zuman Khan. It says:Don't you know I have achieved a great victory recently in Malabar and over four lakh Hindus were converted to Islam? I am determined to march against that cursed Raman Nair very soon. Since I am overjoyed at the prospect of converting him and his subjects to Islam, I have happily abandoned the idea of going back to Srirangapatanam now.It is hard to say, however, that Tipu was completely opposed to those with different religious beliefs. Some high officials in his government were Hindu, such as Purnaiya, Krishna Rao, Shamaiya Iyenga. Tipu even offered help and gifted lands to build temples and supported many Brahmins, even some that opposed his regime. To b Conti ...10
Re: Dispose the sword from Inida...
by Nadeem ahamed on Apr 16, 2010 12:17 PM
Conti4. Religious policy.Attitude towards Hindus.As a Muslim ruler in a largely Hindu domain,Tipu Sultan faced problems in establishing the legitimacy of his rule,& in reconciling his desire to be seen as a devout Islamic ruler with the need to be pragmatic to avoid antagonising the majority of his subjects.His religious legacy has become a source of considerable controversy in the subcontinent.Some groups proclaim him a great warrior for the faith or Ghazi,while a large number of groups revile him as a bigot who massacred Hindus.Some historians claim that he had an egalitarian attitude towards Hindus and was harsh towards them only when politically expedient.In the first part of his reign in particular he appears to have been notably more aggressive and religiously doctrinaire than his father,Hyder Ali.Some historians claim that Tipu Sultan was a religious persecutor of Hindus.In 1780 CE he declared himself to be the Badshah or Emperor of Mysore,& struck coinage in his own name without reference to the reigning Mughal Emperor Shah Alam II. H. D. Sharma writes that in his correspondence with other Islamic rulers such as Zaman Shah of Afghanistan,Tipu Sultan used this title and declared that he intended to establish an empire in the entire country,along the lines of the Mughal Empire which was at its nadir during the period in question. His alliance with the French was supposedly aimed at achieving this goal by driving his main rivals, the British,out o
Re: Dispose the sword from Inida...
by Nadeem ahamed on Apr 16, 2010 12:09 PM
Tipu was supposed to become a Sufi, but his father Hyder Ali insisted he become a capable soldier and a great leader.
Re: Dispose the sword from Inida...
by Nadeem ahamed on Apr 16, 2010 12:32 PM
conti9. Tipu Sultan does seem to have repossessed unauthorised grants of land made to Brahmins and temples, but those which had proper sanads were not. It was a normal practice for any ruler, Muslim or Hindu, on his accession or on the conquest of new territory.The Srikanteswara temple at Nanjungud was presented with a jewelled cup and some precious stones. To another temple, Nanjundeswara, in the same town of Nanjungud, he gave a greenish linga; to Ranganatha temple at Srirangapatana he gifted seven silver cups and a silver camphor burner. This temple was hardly a stone's throw from his palace from where he would listen with equal respect to the ringing of temple bells and the muezzin's call from the mosque.Tipu sent a letter on January 19, 1790 to Budruz Zuman Khan. It says:Don't you know I have achieved a great victory recently in Malabar and over four lakh Hindus were converted to Islam? I am determined to march against that cursed Raman Nair very soon. Since I am overjoyed at the prospect of converting him and his subjects to Islam, I have happily abandoned the idea of going back to Srirangapatanam now.It is hard to say, however, that Tipu was completely opposed to those with different religious beliefs. Some high officials in his government were Hindu, such as Purnaiya, Krishna Rao, Shamaiya Iyenga. Tipu even offered help and gifted lands to build temples and supported many Brahmins, even some that opposed his regime. To b Conti ...10
Re: Dispose the sword from Inida...
by Nadeem ahamed on Apr 16, 2010 01:02 PM
Conti14..Description.Alexander Beatson,who published a volume on the Fourth Mysore War entitled View of the Origin and Conduct of the War with Tippoo Sultaun,described Tipu Sultan as follows:"His stature was about five feet eight inches;he had a short neck,square shoulders,& was rather corpulent:his limbs were small,particularly his feet and hands;he had large full eyes,small arched eyebrows,and an aquiline nose;his complexion was fair,& the general expression of his countenance,not void of dignity".He was called the Tiger of Mysore.It is said that Tipu Sultan was hunting in the forest with a French friend.He came face to face with a tiger.His gun did not work,& his dagger fell on the ground as the tiger jumped on him.He reached for the dagger,picked it up,& killed the tiger with it.That earned him the name "the Tiger of Mysore".He had the image of a tiger on his flag.Tipu Sultan was also very fond of innovations.Beatson mentioned that Tipu Sultan was "passionately fond of new inventions.In his palace was found a great variety of curious swords,daggers,fusils,pistols, and blunderbusses;some were of exquisite workmanship,mounted with gold,or silver,& beautifully inlaid and ornamented with tigers' heads and stripes,or with Persian and Arabic verses".Tipu's Tiger,an automaton representing a tiger attacking a European soldier,made for Tipu Su
Re: Dispose the sword from Inida...
by Nadeem ahamed on Apr 16, 2010 01:05 PM
conti14..were introduced as well as innovations in the use of rocket artillery. Early military career.Tipu Sultan was instructed in military tactics by French officers in the employment of his father,Hyder Ali (also spelled "Haidar Ali").At age 15, he accompanied his father against the British in the First Mysore War in 1766.He commanded a corps of cavalry in the invasion of Carnatic in 1767 at age 16.He also distinguished himself in the First Anglo-Maratha War of 1775–1779. Second Mysore War.In 1779, the British captured the French-controlled port of Mahé, which Tipu had placed under his protection,providing some troops for its defence. In response, Hyder launched an invasion of the Carnatic, with the aim of driving the British out of Madras.[46] During this campaign in September 1780, Tipu Sultan was dispatched by Hyder Ali with 10,000 men and 18 guns to intercept Colonel Baillie who was on his way to join Sir Hector Munro. In the Battle of Pollilur, Tipu decisively defeated Baillie. Out of 360 Europeans, about 200 were captured alive, and the sepoys, who were about 3800 men, suffered very high casualties. Munro was moving south with a separate force to join Baillie, but on hearing the news of the defeat he was forced to retreat to Madras, abandoning his artillery in a water tank at Kanchipuram.Tipu Sultan defeated Colonel Braithwaite at Annagudi near Tanjore on 18 February 1782. Braithwaite's forces, consisting of 1
Re: Dispose the sword from Inida...
by Nadeem ahamed on Apr 16, 2010 12:25 PM
cont7.. In their anxiety to represent the Sultan as a champion of Islam, they had a tendency to exaggerate and distort the facts: Kirmani claims that 70,000 Coorgis were converted, when forty years later the entire population of Coorg was still less than that number. According to Ramchandra Rao "Punganuri" the true number of converts was about 500.The portrayal of Tipu Sultan as a religious bigot is disputed, and some sources suggest that he in fact often embraced religious pluralism.Tipu Sultan's treasurer was Krishna Rao, Shamaiya Iyengar was his Minister of Post and Police, his brother Ranga Iyengar was also an officer, and Purnaiya held the very important post of "Mir Asaf". Moolchand and Sujan Rai were his chief agents at the Mughal court, and his chief "Peshkar", Suba Rao, was also a Hindu.[23] There is such evidence as grant deeds, and correspondence between his court and temples, and his having donated jewellery and deeded land grants to several temples, which some claim he was compelled to do in order to make alliances with Hindu rulers. Between 1782 and 1799 Tipu Sultan issued 34 sanads (deeds) of endowment to temples in his domain, while also presenting many of them with gifts of silver and gold plate. The Srikanteswara Temple in Nanjangud still possesses a jewelled cup presented by the Sultan. To B Cont..8
Re: Dispose the sword from Inida...
by Nadeem ahamed on Apr 16, 2010 12:05 PM
Cont... Sir Walter Scott, commenting on the abdication of Napoleon Bonaparte in 1814, wrote:
Although I never supposed that he [Napoleon] possessed, allowing for some difference of education, the liberality of conduct and political views which were sometimes exhibited by old Haidar Ally, yet I did think he [Napoleon] might have shown the same resolved and dogged spirit of resolution which induced Tipu Sahib to die manfully upon the breach of his capital city with his sabre clenched in his hand.Tipu Sultan was born at Devanahalli, in present-day Bangalore District, some 33 km (21 mi) North of Bangalore city. The exact date of his birth is not known; various sources claim different dates between 1749 and 1753. According to one widely accepted dating, he was born on 10 November 1750 (Friday, 10th Dhu al-Hijjah, 1163 AH). His father, Hyder Ali, was the de facto ruler of Mysore. His mother Fatima or Fakhr-un-nissa was the daughter of Shahal Tariq, governor of the fort of Cuddapah. He was also a strongly religious man, there is a conflict between Sunni-Shia practice of religion.[citation needed] He went in daily to say his prayer and paid special attention to mosques in the area. While leading a predominantly Hindu country, Tipu remained strong in his faith.[3] He built a church, the first in Mysore, at the request of the French. He was a noted linguist, Islamic patriot.
Re: Re: Dispose the sword from Inida...
by Vijoy Kuriakose on Apr 16, 2010 12:23 PM
That was really a good reply Nadeem. We are learning alot about Tipu.
Re: Dispose the sword from Inida...
by Nadeem ahamed on Apr 16, 2010 12:57 PM
Conti13..Tipu's right hand man. Sirdar Yaar Muhammad,the right hand man of Sultan Tipu,also known as Ghazi-e Mysore (Veteran of Mysore),was born in the 18th century in a Muslim Rajput family to Shah Muhammad,a Sufi saint.It is said that Tipu had become a disciple of Shah Muhammad.Yar joined the Army of Mysore and soon became one of the favorite generals of Tipu Sultan.Seeing his patriotic and dauntless behavior,Tipu Sultan made him his commander-in-chief.He fought dauntlessly in the Battle of Seringapatam (1799),but after Tipu's death,& later the fall of Mysore,he ran away to the Kullu hills and then to the central Punjab of Maharaja Ranjit Singh.Thus,he managed to evade capture by the English.After the fall of Mysore,he was declared one of the most wanted Mysorean officers.East India Company tried its best to capture him,dead or alive,but couldn’t succeed.He carried bounty on his head.Several of Yar's family members and relatives were killed by the conquerors,however,he,along with his wife, his father,& a son Ilahi Bakhsh,escaped.He spent the rest of his life as a fugitive.General Yar Muhammad died in the first half of the 19th century.His descendants still live in Punjab,Pakistan,today.
Re: Dispose the sword from Inida...
by pluto mario on Apr 16, 2010 11:13 AM
i think if u go through the history written by british authors, you are bound find him at fault, as you would with many other muslim leaders/warriors from India....... and its obvous that same is the case with authors/writers under Chaddiwallah's payroll in the present day and i am sure youa re aware how the chaddiwallahs collaborated with the britishers to deny freedom to India......
Re: Re: Dispose the sword from Inida...
by R Balasubramanian on Apr 16, 2010 11:45 AM
what has this country achieved after freedom? Can you touch your bosom and say boldly your country has progressed after the independence? Churchill had wisely said then - DONT GIVE FREEDOM TO INDIA SINCE THEY WILL BE RULED BY SCOUNDRELS AND THUGS AS WISE FEAR TO RUN THE GOVERNMENT. ITS REAL TRUTH AND FACT.
