At the onset, I introduce myself as a full-time MBA from SJMSOM and have had my experiences with Ms. Karuna Jain (KJ) both as a teacher (3 subjects) as well as an administrator.
Let this review (you may even call it the ground-zero or actual user review) be a little different from the one wherein the user details his or her opinions. I will keep it simple: out of all the alumni (my batchmates, other senior and younger batches, part-time working professionals) who would be asked to rate Ms. KJ's abilities, approach as well as attitude, she would NOT score more than 4 on a scale of 1-10. My personal opinion: teachers and administrators like KJ are stifling the growth of this high-potential institute.
If Indians are so much more intelligent then why is it that not even a single major technology breakthrough has been by a resident Indian ?
Lets face it :
-The level of academic excellence in an average US univ is far more superior than IISC (leave alone IITs) -The number of international technical papers, researches and journals published by Indian universities is almost zero. -People from IITs still prefer to go abroad for higher studies. This not just because of better infrastructure, its because of much much better academic fellow students and far better qualified professors and research faculty.
Indians are intelligent NO DOUBT, but saying that they are the most intelligent is a very wrong statement coming from such a noted person.
Not only average student of India, average student of some other countries are better than good American students. 10 percent student who come to US from other countries are super brilliant (like IITans of India) rest 90 percent are average student of other countries. This 90 percent come in US, because most of them has more information in life in early age(big city kids) and rich family background. So this average 90 percent do good in US university, and able to get job in US with specialty occupation visa, and it proves that they are better than the American students. America is a mechanically developed country, where a talented individual like Bill gates has worlds opportunity to make his dream successful. We don't have that in India. But we have many bill gates in our country, but so far we are not able provide them opportunity.
Re: Karuna is correct
by Dipak Dhebar on Nov 08, 2009 12:17 PM
when will we stop boasting about ourselves as the most inteligent and the nicest people in the world,we are the most dirty minded and selfish people
Re: Re: Karuna is correct
by neil k on Nov 09, 2009 04:06 PM
I agree with Dipak. Why dont we stop congratulating ourselves at every drop of the hat? We call ourselves the most hospitable but that applies to "gora" foreigners only not to lower caste people. We call ourselves intelligent but our reserach institutions cannot even produce an effective response to malaria, our biggest killer, whereas Bill Gates foundation has made possible more technological progress in this area than in all of India's research. We boast of best medical facilities and tout medical tourism, but even today people die of cholera, typhoid, chikagunya, tubercuilosis, etc which basic sanitation and facilities should have eliminated. Even a restricted country like Cuba doesnt have the diseases that lower level Indians face.
We all talk as if the India that we discuss includes only middle class members .... we always forget the gaping hole ..... the large mass of Indians (more than 50%) barely surviving with no more ambition in life than the next days meal.
We must be conscious that unless there is inclusive growth India will never be great.
By inclusive, I mean not just upper caste Hindus and elites, but all minorties, lower castes, Harijans, scheduled castes, scheduled tribes, OBC's, .....etc ...
Karuna's conclusion about an average Indian student being better than the top American in terms of iq is baseless. There has never been such a study thus nothing of such sort can be implied. On an average most countries have people with the same IQ each country has its own share of intelligent and average people. It was very irresponsible of her to make such a strong statement. I am doing my Masters in Finance and Financial Engineering in the US, I have studied with and under the guidance of Americans who are as good as the best Indians I have seen. She goes on to say that our secondary education is better, I am ready for a bet here. Compare any masters level school in India to my school. The number of qualified professors, number of Phds., the number of working professionals who teach all these things are better in US schools. An average American school will outperform IITs. If we are the best then why aren't we innovating. If we have the best people then corporations will certainly pour money into our institutions for research, most of the academic research is done in American Universities. India is improving but we are no where close to America on this one. her other point about women being successful in financial industry because of meticulous and bla bla.. is also an irresponsible comment.To me she seems to be a person who generalizes things a person who is narrow minded whose leadership would cause harm to any institution. What we require most is new kind of leaders.
Re: Is she serious???
by Ankash Pravin on Nov 06, 2009 07:59 PM
Well said Vikram Snajeeva, We have just hatched, But celebrate as full grown hen. Long way to go for that.
Re: Is she serious???
by Rationalist on Nov 06, 2009 08:14 PM
Agree. Indians however good tend to be monotonous in thinking. Rather, they think memorization, which they are better at is intelligence.
Re: Re: Is she serious???
by angshu rai on Nov 07, 2009 10:11 PM
the problem with us Indians in terms of upbringing, education etc. is that we are all put in a rat race to earn money, which is very preventive for any kind of innovative thinking. Everything in India is measured by monetary prosperity, unless we change this situation we are doomed to monotonous thinking and doing back office jobs for the west. Though I agree with most of Vikram's comments I disagree that IITs can be out performed by an average American school, IITs are arguably deteriorating but it hasn't sunk to such levels yet.
Re: Re: Is she serious???
by angshu rai on Nov 07, 2009 10:11 PM
the problem with us Indians in terms of upbringing, education etc. is that we are all put in a rat race to earn money, which is very preventive for any kind of innovative thinking. Everything in India is measured by monetary prosperity, unless we change this situation we are doomed to monotonous thinking and doing back office jobs for the west. Though I agree with most of Vikram's comments I disagree that IITs can be out performed by an average American school, IITs are arguably deteriorating but it hasn't sunk to such levels yet.
Re: Re: Is she serious???
by angshu rai on Nov 07, 2009 10:12 PM
the problem with us Indians in terms of upbringing, education etc. is that we are all put in a rat race to earn money, which is very preventive for any kind of innovative thinking. Everything in India is measured by monetary prosperity, unless we change this situation we are doomed to monotonous thinking and doing back office jobs for the west. Though I agree with most of Vikram's comments I disagree that IITs can be out performed by an average American school, IITs are arguably deteriorating but it hasn't sunk to such levels yet.
we are content with service industry, we never create block buster products. there's very little incentive for people to innovate.
management with a science background is a fertile ground for developing tech products. most management students do not specialize or do not have the yen to innovate. most are content to land a plum job in companies abroad for million dollar salaries.
in the long term, we'd be helping the yanks come up, not our country.
so all that boast about us being brighter than the yanks boils down to nothing if our students end up in USA.
I always wonder why we keep comparing only with US for everything. US is a 13 trillion economy and we should achieve what USA has achieved and innovated.
But US is not our main competition. They hold the reserve currency, they outsource most , countries are standing in line for Free trade with US, military tie up etc. In a nutshell US is a different entity all to-gether
We are competing mainly with China, Latin AMerica, Japan, Sth Korea and to some extent EU countries.
Let us compare where we stand with them and start working on it.
If we are better than AMerica but still loose out to China/Brazil -- then what good is that??
Re: why keep comparing only with US all the time??
by Ankash Pravin on Nov 06, 2009 08:01 PM
Comparing with China, Dear they are many miles ahead. You can compare with southAfrica or Sudan for instance
Re: Re: why keep comparing only with US all the time??
by LALIT ANAND on Nov 07, 2009 04:48 PM
Yah. We should be happy comparing our selves with Nepal, Bhutan and the likes because we and especially our media is most delighted and overjoyed when we beat them at international level unworthy games etc.
Frankly, majority of our population is simply incapable of even maintaining and following simple traffic rules on the roads, and comparing ourselves with US would be a far fetched and distant dream.
Karuna Jain is obviously day dreaming after getting the job she has.
according to this report dynosaurs should outperform ants. say..due to its strength, power, intelligence, ellegance.
Indivdual performance does not necessarily make a community prosper. But coordinated performace definitely makes - and even if the individuals are as dim as ants.
is this lady crazy or what? has she ever been to america? she should probably first teach some american students and then talk about the iq level. it's really very racist to say that americans have a lower iq when you haven't even been in contact with america or americans ever. wonder how people like these succeed!
Re: has she ever been to america?
by exoticbronze on Nov 05, 2009 06:52 AM
I can understand your disapproval. However, having worked and lived in the US for a very long time in the tech sector (and studied here for 3 years prior), I agree with Ms. Karuna Jain. Indian students (even those coming from non-elite schools and colleges in India) simply outperform other American and non American students.
I have been left surprised by many new revelations in the US over the years. However, nothing left me as surprised as the realization that notwithstanding the swanky US College campus and infrastructure , we Indian students consistently outperformed others.
We Indian student topped the subjects consistently, and re-inforced a stellar reputation in the campuses.
Ditto, with our success at the various companies I have worked at, especially in Silicon Valley/Bay Area.
I dont know if Karuna has been to the US, even though you presume that she hasnt (even though you dont like her supposed presumption about American students' IQ levels), I still second her opinion about Americans. We may have several other shortcoming as compared to the Americans (they are more organized, less corruption, excellent infrastructure etc), Indian student are definitely among the very BEST in terms of intelligence and diligence...if not THE BEST.
Re: Re: has she ever been to america?
by Guest on Nov 06, 2009 01:25 PM
Karuna's conclusion about an average Indian student being better than the top American in terms of iq is baseless. There has never been such a study thus nothing of such sort can be implied. On an average most countries have people with the same IQ each country has its own share of intelligent and average people. It was very irresponsible of her to make such a strong statement. I am doing my Masters in Finance and Financial Engineering in the US, I have studied with and under the guidance of Americans who are as good as the best Indians I have seen. She goes on to say that our secondary education is better, I am ready for a bet here. Compare any masters level school in India to my school. The number of qualified professors, number of Phds., the number of working professionals who teach all these things are better in US schools. An average American school will outperform IITs. If we are the best then why aren't we innovating. If we have the best people then corporations will certainly pour money into our institutions for research, most of the academic research is done in American Universities. India is improving but we are no where close to America on this one. her other point about women being successful in financial industry because of meticulous and bla bla.. is also an irresponsible comment.To me she seems to be a person who generalizes things a person who is narrow minded whose leadership would cause harm to any institution. What we require most is a new kind of leaders.
Re: Re: has she ever been to america?
by shaank on Nov 05, 2009 09:18 AM
The question is whether avg. indian student here outperforms americans there n not the students going there ,who r a few selected ones after due process of strict screening n all that there,these students hv got 2 (out)perform else de wud b thrown out,avg student here is no match 2 them coz of reasons enunciated by others in this forum, remarks of the lady seen 2 b in appropriate in this context....
