I agree that CA's are glorified clerks.in fact Cwa's ie. cost accountants are more of use in finance and accounting field that can be useful for the company.
The criticism seems to be unfair. Why not adopt IFRS since the world is moving towards harmonisation.
The question about following the West: ICAI has the word "Chartered" in its name (UK it has reference to Royal Charter). Not of any relevance in Republic of India. See the list of specialised institutions in GOI directory, none of them have the word "Chartered". ICAI may not like to rename itself without the word "Chartered". May be a brand issue (use of word without true meaning).
Any way, I believe that harmonisation of Accounting standards with IFRS is way for globalised world.
CAs are just glorified clerks. They lack managerial abilities. Though they have big egos. So much so that the Auditors want the Clients to appoint only CAs and if any non-CA is appointed for big posts in Finance like ICWA / MBA(Finance), they are just harassed. ICAI is also acting as a stumbling block to ICWAI in the latter's efforts to change its name to INSTITUE OF COST & MANAGEMENT ACCOUNTANTS. Obviously, it wants to eat all the fruits, while other similar Institutes abroad have clear demarcation between the profession of PUBLIC ACCOUNTANTS & MANAGEMENT ACCOUNTANTS. It is high time that in India, the profession of Public Accounting is made open to other professions like ICWA/MBA(FINANCE).
RE:CAs - GLORIFIED CLERKS
by Vivek Raj on May 21, 2008 08:22 PM
If the ICWAI institute really has the mettle to compete with a premier body like ICAI why does it not prove itself, having its head office in Kolkata itself shows how outdated the institute is.
RE:RE:CAs - GLORIFIED CLERKS
by devanjan datta on May 21, 2008 11:51 PM
if we take a deeper look then..we can say that CAs are of 2 types..prcaticing and non-practicing ones..the work done by a practicing CA can onlny be done by a qualified CA ..but all other work they do..can be done by an MBA or ICWAI..infact ICWAs are in better position to handle the finances of a company..management accounting is a totally different field from financial accounting ..in needs specialised perosnnels..more over CFAs are in the best position to handle A to Z financial functions.
RE:CAs - GLORIFIED CLERKS
by Global Analyst on May 22, 2008 09:25 AM
Ganesh, you are mistaken. I never thought of doing CA nor I will advise anyone. Dont hv any superior complex just because u r a CA. I am doing very well heading the Finance function of a MNC without CA. I appoint to my Finance Dept only MBA(Finance) or CWAs and not CAs because I know the shortcomings of CAs - they are more obsessed with compliance to tax regulations & Audit requirements and strictly see everything from Accounting angle and not from practical strategical business point of view and to manage things.
Re: RE:CAs - GLORIFIED CLERKS
by Prabhakar BV on Dec 30, 2008 11:37 AM
I now change my stance as ICAI has taken steps and designed a MANAGEMENT COURSE for CA students. Hats off! When we have some weaknesses, we should try to overcome it. And that is what ICAI is doing. Aiming for excellence. A good step indeed.
Re: Re: RE:CAs - GLORIFIED CLERKS
by Prabhakar BV on Dec 30, 2008 11:38 AM
I now change my stance as ICAI has taken steps and designed a MANAGEMENT COURSE for CA students. Hats off! When we have some weaknesses, we should try to overcome it. And that is what ICAI is doing. Aiming for excellence. A good step indeed.
Re: Re: RE:CAs - GLORIFIED CLERKS
by Prabhakar BV on Dec 30, 2008 11:41 AM
I now change my opinion with the right steps being taken by ICAI to impart Management education to CA students. Good. Keep going !!!
Re: RE:CAs - GLORIFIED CLERKS
by Prabhakar BV on Dec 30, 2008 11:40 AM
I now change my opinion with the right steps being taken by ICAI to impart Management education to CA students. Good. Keep going !!!
RE:CAs - GLORIFIED CLERKS
by Amitabh on May 31, 2008 05:30 PM
Dont generalise your experience.I myself work in a fortune 500 company and know the capabilities of a CA.
Re: Re: CAs - GLORIFIED CLERKS
by Guest on Nov 14, 2008 03:20 PM
It is said and is true that when MBA joins finance or accounts dept., he is required to be trained for any work and requires guidance in accounts, finance, taxation etc. since he lacks practical knowledge whereas if CA is appointed, one can tell him any work to do, he will do on his own and he possesses the abilities to guide and get the work done from others and supervise the same as he undergoes rigorous training during articleship. Any CA if new to any topic is ready to acquire mastery by self learning. e.g. Finance Act changing Income Tax Act provisions every year. CAs are required to undergo mandatorily continuous professional education which MBA is not.
RE:CAs - GLORIFIED CLERKS
by Global Analyst on May 21, 2008 08:35 PM
If ICAI has the mettle why should it have any objection to ICWAI's name change, when all other similar Institutes including in smaller countries like SRI LANKA, BANGLADESH,PAKISTAN are functioning separately. ICAI says that the word "Management Accountant" will confuse the Public. If in other countries, Public are not confused with the words "Public Accountant" and "Management Accountant", why only in India the public will be confused? Are the Indian public so naive to not to understand the difference? It is high time ICAI develops good relations with all other sister institutes instead of taking obstructive methods. Incidentally, ICAI also had issues with ICFAI on the word "Chartered", which finally ICFAI has won. Similary, one hopes that time would come ICWAI will gain the name "Management Accountant" soon.
RE:CAs - GLORIFIED CLERKS
by Vivek Raj on May 21, 2008 08:59 PM
Do u feel a change in name will take ICWAI to the top, not even in dreams man, it takes a life time to restructure that institute for it to be professional.
RE:CAs - GLORIFIED CLERKS
by R Ganesh on May 21, 2008 09:14 PM
Global Analyst, Sorry to sound rude. I sense you are one among the many who have failed in cracking CA exam and ended up completing CWA. Sour Grapes!! Ganesh
RE:CAs - GLORIFIED CLERKS
by yajuvender chauhan on May 21, 2008 10:23 PM
Gentleman, there is no denying that ICAI is the premier body for accounting in India but off late the way some of the decisions this body has taken doesnt reflect well on a body as good as ICAI. The pass percentage is suddenly increased to 30-35% just to meet the market demand a real sacrifice on quality, ceasing its members to get ICFAI degrees which is nothing but debarring professionals from self development thankfully supreme court acted wisely & allwed CA's to go for ICFAI, ceasing students to go for full time graduation when CA itself is a part time distance learning course....No effort from ICAI to make cordial terms with sister institutes like ICWA, ICSI...& for god sake why CA's were treated equally for MCA21 form filling...please dont tell me they are masters at corporate laws because they are not.
Re: RE:CAs - GLORIFIED CLERKS
by RAJESH AGARWAL on Dec 02, 2008 09:27 PM
WE MUST NOT CRITICISE OTHER INSTITUTE BUT INSTEAD COME FORWARD WITH A POSITIVE OUTLOOK.DO NOT BLAME ICWAI.
RE:CAs - GLORIFIED CLERKS
by Gourav on May 21, 2008 06:17 PM
Ask any MBA(Finance) the Indian Tax regulations and you will get all the answers for your doubts/complaints.
RE:RE:CAs - GLORIFIED CLERKS
by devanjan datta on May 21, 2008 11:44 PM
sir, i dont know from which back ground you come but i must tell you that everything isnot everybody's cup of tea...ask any CA about the process of securitization or credit rating or calculation of future cash flows..they wont have ready made answers..every one has a definit role to play..and i must also inform you that in MBA finance we do have subjects related to corporate and personal tax planning..you must be dreaming about MBA HR or MBA marketing.
Re: CAs - GLORIFIED CLERKS
by Prabhakar BV on Dec 30, 2008 03:52 PM
I am not against all CAs per se. I have interacted with some brilliant Chartered Accountants who were simply marvellous in their knowledge of Accounting, Auditing & Taxation subjects. I also have lot of CA friends with whom I crack jokes. Of course, I also saw lot of level-headed CAs.
CA is a course which ruins lifes of thousands of CA students who enrolled just not for searching other competetive jobs.CA curriculam is a ridiculous and does not give any real exposure in any field including finance.CAs are hopeless and orthodox professionals and who never wants to be critisised.They do post mortem jobs and tricky practice just for surviving.ICAI failed to stop MNC audit firms who charge subsatntial fees from their indian clients.But Indian CAs are figting for survival.In case of banking technical people are doing better than CAs both in marketing and risk.An engineer is doing ratio analysis better than a CA.ICAI may stop canvassing for IFRS instead It may canvass for its own members.I personely diverted many young persons from ding CA and all are happy now.My sincere advice to girls 'Don't join CA'.If you join you will lose your beauty and youngness as you may pass only after 30's.For boys my advice is 'Start a Pani poori stall,one day you may start a good hotel'.If you join CA you will become accountant for that stall.This is my personel views only and CAs need not angry with me if this suits their life.
RE:IFRS&ICAI
by Gourav on May 21, 2008 06:07 PM
Do not post your personal views (biased) in public and retain it to yourself. That is called public responsibility.
RE:IFRS&ICAI
by sudip upadhyay on Jul 11, 2008 07:05 PM
friend where are you. please awake up. do you have any ideas the range of functions today CAs are performing. They are working as functional consultant in software industry . revenue assurance in telco,pricing in retail and aviation, risk in banking, product devlopment in service sector to what not. Once you do CA you can go ahead and do anything. Yeah its a correspondence course as many say. but its the only course in india where you start preparing for the exams later but start doing your aticleship first. You have an articleship for 3 years where you not only work as clerks but also deal with your clients and interact with CFOs and CEOs . Along with this you learn the commercail laws of the country and than appear for an exam which tests your faculties like anything. So at the end of the day its the only course where you learn to stand , walk and run on your feet. No spoon feeding like MBA . And please do not compare CS and ICWA to CA . You can do them just sitting at home . no worthy training. They are meant for house wives
It%u2019s good news for Chartered Accountants, and also for publications like ours. CAs have been finally allowed to advertise their services after a council meeting of Institute of Chartered Accountants of India (ICAI), the apex body of CAs in India, decided in favour of the move, according to a report in Mint. CAs can now use print and electronic media to showcase the different services being offered by them, especially those that are not in their exclusive domain, such as risk management and consulting. Also CAs can now promote both their individual services and also the name of their firms. Chartered Accountants Act, 1949, was amended in 2006 allowing CAs to advertise, but the guidelines have been just passed by ICAI Council. Till date, CAs were only known through word of mouth or through references. ICAI has prepared a detailed guideline and will soon formally notify it. Every year 8,000 to 10,000 CAs join the profession. The move will increase the visibility of CAs in the market. ICAI had earlier taken certain steps to build brands, such as a dress code and logo. In other countries CAs are allowed to advertise through mass media. Legal professionals (and also doctors) are another category of professionals who are barred from advertising their services. Lawyers and law firms have also been demanding their right to advertise their services, but the Bar Council of India, the equivalent of ICAI for lawyers, have not taken a call on it. Probably, the next move will be to fre
It is better if all the 3 institutes in India are merged - CA , ICWA & CS . Then we will have one accounting & regulatory body and we can rule the world .
Honestly, CA's are hopeless. All they do is diligently memorize a few textbooks, write exams and that's it. There is no independent thinking, no communication skills whatsoever. Even in tax practice, I've noticed that it is their closeness with the various commisioners that do the trick not their understanding of the subject. Just ask a CA even a little bit out of the ordinary scope of practice and watch them turn blue. Most survive on so called "internal audits" & "bank audits".
I was once talking to a freshly qualified chartered accountant. This guy wanted an entry into the capital market. He did not even understand what book-building is & the various schemes of allotment. The joke is they have got this stuff in their syllabus. What a sorry state of affairs. The accountancy profession in India has been hijacked by a group of greedy people who are running a profit organization under the name of ICAI. It is high time the government reclaimed control over ICAI
RE:A need for a new accounting regulator?
by ashish agarwal on May 21, 2008 12:09 PM
ICAI is a relatively well governed organisation compared to IIM's and other institutes, where there is no quality control on students produced. IIM's guys know how to speak, but don't know what they are speaking...hahahh
RE:A need for a new accounting regulator?
by sarvesh on May 21, 2008 12:41 PM
There we go again. Ihave heard this argument so many times now. Theres a saying when a lie is repeated 1000 times, it becomes the truth and you are a living example of a hopelessly brain-washed CA, who now believes this as truth. What can I say? Well Just good luck to you. Hope you dont waste your time "VOUCHING" and producing those all important "INTERNAL AUDIT" reports which no one ever reads.
And finally I'd like you to take a look at your own placement figures at the recently concluded Campus interview. That should give you a grip on reality and QUALITY. I've interviewed a few CA's myself and I for a fact know that the understanding and knowledge level of these CA's is real bad as the author of this comment says.
RE:A need for a new accounting regulator?
by ashish agarwal on May 21, 2008 12:46 PM
Leave what I am to myself, and rather comment on topic...(weak people try personal attack !!) Have you interviewed IIM grad's ? if not how can u draw a comparision ? Besides check out the averge salary figures for IIM-A it was 7 lakhs in 2007, given only 180 students passsed out of IIM A compared to thousands of CA's. Look in aggregate terms and you will find higher market value of CA's. Based on a few bad performers, how can u generalise the whole population ? check your thinking....
RE:A need for a new accounting regulator?
by sarvesh on May 21, 2008 01:25 PM
I'm sorry. I never meant to attack you personally or something. Honestly Do you want me to check out each and every CA candidate? Don't you audit guys do something called test checking? sampling I believe, where you draw conclusions on the entire population based on testing a representative sample? Working for an outsourcing firm and having checked out 2 campus interviews conducted by your institute and also having interviewed hundreds of CA - Inters/PE-2's/CA's/ICWA's I believe I have seen a fairly represntative sample of the CA population out there. And No I havent interviewed IIM candidates. But it is not for nothing that the job market gives huge premiums to IIM grads (not to mention the 100% placement). & besides the number of CA's must roughly equal the number of grads from all IIM's put together. (not only IIM A) Do tell me What is the placement % in your campus?
RE:A need for a new accounting regulator?
by Gourav on May 21, 2008 06:11 PM
It does not matter how much succeed from the campus but matters the most that they succeed in life. CAs do not only do the audits in the audit firms,please check your knonwledge. Atleast ICAI is fair in the admission and passing out process (not based on the quota system) and not it is the institution for rich people only.
RE:A need for a new accounting regulator?
by ashish agarwal on May 21, 2008 01:44 PM
There are lesser than 1,500 IIM grads per annum put together including khozikode and indore. thats a sample from about 200,000 candidates who appear for CAT. thats less than 1 % of students who appear in CAT. Ever wondered where these hig premium IIM's grads land up after 5-10 years ? Are such high salaries sustainable ? How many of these 1,500 get such high salaries ? Top 2 % percentage of the class?
Out of around 50-60,000 students that appear for ALL CA exams, about 6,000 to 8,000 probably clear the exam. So thats about 10 % of top.
IIM's should be performing in relation to other world class institutes like London Business School and Harvard, they don't even match up with average UK university in terms of course content, infrastructure, faculty and approach !!!
Well it seems you had bad experience interviewing CA's. Agreed there are problems. I have worked with many IIM-A graduates and know a quite few of them, branding doesn't always mean quality if not checked at output. ICAI campus placements have also been 100 % with average salary around 5-6 lakhs (correct me if I am wrong here !!)
RE:RE:A need for a new accounting regulator?
by devanjan datta on May 22, 2008 02:06 AM
i am really sad about ur understanding...we MBAs know how to work smart and reap the benefits..my dear friend u need to work hard only in academics..in corporate life u need to be smart and proactive..and that what IIM grdas are master off..watch and learn!
RE:Fair value would leave room for judgement and therefore manipulation
by devanjan datta on May 22, 2008 12:04 AM
this is the topic on which we should discuss rather pulling each other's leg..fair value accounting really has it's own pros and cons..and implementation in India will become more difficult since we do not have developed resell markets from where we can determine the fair price of an asset..ICAI sould seriously look in this matter.
Its time we should adopt IFRS as planned in 2011 and prepare ourselves. Any change will always bring problem to few but in larger interest of profession, Industry and people at large (common Prinicpal for accounts) are important for this globalized word.
RE:IFRS Should be adopted
by Dimension Four on May 21, 2008 04:16 PM
SO it would be tool in the hand of the cas to get more fees by milking the average businessmen. Soory business houses. Lets start by enhanceing the limit of cumpulsory audit form 40 lakh to 4 crore. Why? Is the value of 40 lakh is the same about 20 yrs ago when this was amended. Pls reply and oblige. Rgds 4th Dimension
I feel adoption of IFRS is more to do with the capital markets. Most of the prominent companies from India are listing overseas for fund raising activities. Hence I see no problem in adopting IFRS (which the Europeons understand).
Moreover, our standards sometimes look draconion and do not show a true and fair value of the assets in place. Mark to market concept is discouraged by traditional accountants and this poses a serious problem when showing a proper value of the company/organization.
So, we should change to be in line with IFRS and bring abount changes, if necessary.
