URBAN LEGEND A myth called the Indian programmer Do you know what an Indian software engineer does for a living? - A TIMES OF INDIA REPORT 18th February 2007.
They are the poster boys of matrimonial classifieds. They are paid handsomely, perceived to be intelligent and travel abroad frequently. Single-handedly, they brought purpose to the otherwise sleepy city of Bangalore. Indian software engineers are today the face of a third-world rebellion. But what exactly do they do? That%u2019s a disturbing question. Last week, during the annual fair of the software industry%u2019s apex body Nasscom, no one uttered a word about India%u2019s programmers. The event, which brought together software professionals from around the world, used up all its 29 sessions to discuss prospects to improve the performance of software companies. Panels chose to debate extensively on subjects like managing innovation, business growth and multiple geographies. But there was nothing on programmers, who you would imagine are the driving force behind the success of the Indian software companies. Perhaps you imagined wrong. %u201CIt is an explosive truth that local software companies won%u2019t accept. Most software professionals in India are not programmers, they are mere coders,%u201D says a senior executive from a global consultancy firm, who has helped Nasscom in researching its industry reports. In industry parlance, coders are akin to smart assembly line workers as opposed to programmers who are plant engineers. Programmers are the brains, the glorious visionaries who create things. Large software programmes that often run into billions of lines are designed and developed by a handful of programmers. Coders follow instructions to write, evaluate and test small components of the large program. As a computer science student in IIT Mumbai puts it %u2014 if programming requires a post graduate level of knowledge of complex algorithms and programming methods, coding requires only high school knowledge of the subject. Coding is also the grime job. It is repetitive and monotonous. Coders know that. They feel stuck in their jobs. They have fallen into the trap of the software hype and now realise that though their status is glorified in the society, intellectually they are stranded. Companies do not offer them stock options anymore and their salaries are not growing at the spectacular rates at which they did a few years ago. %u201CThere is nothing new to learn from the job I am doing in Pune. I could have done it with some training even after passing high school,%u201D says a 25-yearold who joined Infosys after finishing his engineering course in Nagpur. A Microsoft analyst says, %u201CLike our manufacturing industry, the Indian software industry is largely a process driven one. That should speak for the fact that we still don%u2019t have a domestic software product like Yahoo or Google to use in our daily lives.%u201D IIT graduates have consciously shunned India%u2019s best known companies like Infosys and TCS, though they offered very attractive salaries. Last year, from IIT Powai, the top three Indian IT companies got just 10 students out of the 574 who passed out. The best computer science students prefer to join companies like Google and Trilogy. Krishna Prasad from the College of Engineering, Guindy, Chennai, who did not bite Infosys%u2019 offer, says, %u201CThe entrance test to join TCS is a joke compared to the one in Trilogy. That speaks of what the Indian firms are looking for.
RE:THIS SHOULD CLEAR ALL DOUBTS
by hello on Feb 19, 2007 06:57 AM
Here I tell what ever I know: Here they discussed about general IT works. It doesn't belong only to Indian Software people. When programmers who enter the job, doesn't feel much overload, as their heads or team lead will take burden. Also, for people who change very often from one job to another, feels very easy, because they didn't feel the responsibility. You ask the people who are in responsibile posts, they tell the stories of deadline, the difficulty in coding or programming or designing some complex parts. ABCDE...Z only 26 words, how to arrange those words only one's knowledge exists. Well both complexity & other side also there.
RE:THIS SHOULD CLEAR ALL DOUBTS
by on Feb 19, 2007 07:55 AM
WELL DO YOU REALLY KNOW THE REALITY OF IT COMPANIES LIKE PATNI COMPUTER SYSTEMS....... WELL HERE IT IS THIS COMPANY DECLARES A SALARY WHEN IT IS APPLYING FOR A WORK PERMIT OR H1B VISA BUT DOESNT GIVE THAT SALARY TO ITS EMPLOYEES. THESE GUYS SUCK THE BOLLD OF THEIR EMPLOYEES.
RE:RE:THIS SHOULD CLEAR ALL DOUBTS
by hello on Feb 19, 2007 08:46 AM
I don't know about your personal like/dislikes about any particular companies. If you added the word really means, it may not be a REAL story.
I interact with some Indian software companies and BPO service providers (I won't mention their names). Nearly all their services have been quite bad. Our projects tend to be delayed due to quality reasons. We still keep them on the project because sometimes its too late to bring in a new project partner or sometimes despite the low quality, its worth due to the price. Most of the time, we end up re-working the project to improve quality.
If these benefits at the work place improve quality, I would say its a great welcome to have gyms, etc. If not, then I would say more training would be more useful than infrastructure like gyms, etc.
RE:Indian Comapanies
by Jaywant Kulkarni on Feb 19, 2007 09:12 AM
I work with one Indian IT company. One year back our client removed (one purely American IT company) from IT development and support and handed over contract to my company. After 1 year, client has declared that he is quite happy with his decision. There has been dramatic improvement in quality standards!! When I read code written by previous american programmers, I just laugh out loud. Even our freshers can write better code than that.
RE:Indian Comapanies
by hello on Feb 19, 2007 04:03 AM
I prefer quality Japanese products than Cheaper Chinese products. Is that kind of what you mean to say? But software is not like that as you said.
Lot of people prefer Indian Software Engineers because of their dedication in work & timely delivery & quality of work. Some times, when technology outdated, like cobol programs are too difficult to maintain, then they will re-write to go for JAVA. That is common in software development, please don't mis-understood that.
RE:RE:RE:Indian Comapanies
by suma elizabeth on Feb 20, 2007 08:02 PM
hello kamdev Comment on the issue my friend. express ur views on the subject, not the person
RE:Indian Comapanies
by pagadala saikrishna on Feb 19, 2007 05:24 AM
I am a 22year old so called software engineer working for a so called BIG IT Company. While people make so much 'halla' about workplaces.The kind of work being done never receives as much space as it deserves. The work sucks for a majority of us,as much as i know.why? coz, its a no brains work, only hands that understand some technology(tools) are needed. if i dont damn care about the workplace. work is of primary importance
RE:RE:Indian Comapanies
by hello on Feb 19, 2007 05:41 AM
For work is concerned, we don't need much space. But we may need technical discussions, we need a big conference. Web Meeting with foreign offices. we may need a theatre like conference rooms with projectors etc. That will add-up spaces at the end, eventhough we try to be simple.
I also think to buy the land where these people telling as "Farmers Land" and grow vegetable, Potato, Aloe vera. Believe me. Even jalthropa won't grow peacefully in those land these cheap politicians argue as Farmers Land. Also, note one think. To develop a SEZ or software center, we dont need any Farm Land. What we need is a land which should not produce anything. The more it doesn't produce like grass etc. the better we can save cost in cutting these junk trees with sharp nail like. To open a E-Commerce location, we only need a land (means Land) & electricity & satellite connect to connect internet. After building & developing & increasing the cost of the area so called Farm Land, some people or middleman sell it to the other company for very high prices. At that time, really the farmers (who do real I mean REAL farming) of the near by places were very happy to see that their land appreciates to 50%, but these cheap politicians not. What a Farm Land & What a cheap politicians!!! Please tell me a real farm land, I want to grow vegetables, chilli, beans!!!
RE:Farmers Land!!! What Cheap Politicians for Publicity!!!
by Faceless Indian on Feb 19, 2007 06:34 AM
Try Tijuana in Mexico if you are looking at growing Beans/Chilli. They are accepting applications from smart alec IT coders (who would like to be called Programmers) and throw their weight around here....over their Habanero Dorito's.Living in India if you haven't seen or known what farm land is,your company should provide you psychiatric treatment instead of pools.
IT companies or other MNCs don't need acres and acres of land. They are not resorts for employees to relax. In Britain, most of the offices have space crunch. They have very limited flexibility towards employees as well. Fun Zone must be in terms of intellect and not to build muscles. There are other places to build muscles. It is because of these companies that the real estate prices are sky rocketting. They buy lands at a very cheap price and it is we individuals who must bear the brunt.
RE:Fun Zones?
by Forrest Gump on Feb 18, 2007 09:30 PM
Maybe they are resorts. Have you seen IT people do anything other than work? They seriously need to get a life ;). Even on weekends, many IT people spend time at work. Now what they do at the office, i leave it upto you to decide ;)
RE:RE:RE:Fun Zones?
by Forrest Gump on Feb 18, 2007 09:54 PM
I think i and you agree on one point. Having posh facilities at work is of no use when you are working around the clock.
But you cannot criticise the facilities being given by the CEOs. I have worked in US too and there they have all kinds of facilities in offices. I have seen an office in Silicon valley where there is a mini-golf centre. India is just going US's way but it still has miles to go before being on par.
As far as poor people are concerned, why should a successful businessman be criticised for a job not being done well by the Govt.? It is the Govt's duty to provide food and shelter to all the poor people. A businessman should be able to use the money that he has earned from his own entrepreneurship qualities any way he wants. Despite this, there are lots of businessmen in India who their bit for the poor.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Fun Zones?
by Forrest Gump on Feb 18, 2007 10:24 PM
and who are the people who are inflating real estate rates? it is the damn real estate middlemen. these are uncouth and uneducated middlemen who want to make quick money. have you seen how people in bangalore are looted by the autowallahs, landlords, shopkeepers, taxi drivers etc etc? These people are not educated but want to make quick money seeing the boom.
Let us not blame our own people ie. the educated middle class for this mess. I can say with 100% sureity that if India was not a corrupt country with all those uneducated middlemen,police,peons,office babus,bureaucratspoliticians etc etc etc, there will be much less poor people in the country. The educated middle class has got nothing to do with the sorry state of poor people of this country.
RE:Fun Zones?
by Baba Kamdev on Feb 19, 2007 03:59 PM
LOOKS LIKE SANGEETHA MADAM IS PAYING EVRY HIGH EMI FOR HER HOME LOAN !!!!...SHE IS UNHAPPY ABOUT RISING REAL ESTATE PRICES BECAUSE OF SOFTWARE COMPANIES!!..
Really? Most of the IT workers are overworked workaholics working 18 hours a day or commuting 4 hours a day before and after work in Bangalore traffic. HA HA HA. These gyms are useless. I have observed that facilities like this are underutilised in IT companies. Most IT workers are shy in doing exercises and showing their muscles. Anyway, where is the time? Most of the time IT people are in front of the monirot in their sweatshops.
Looks like lot of guys here don't like Infy :). But this article got other names also like Patnies, Nokia , Microsoft etc., Why do you guys cry on these companies who offer good facilities to their employees? If these companies are not there.. , all of us still working on those factories run by central gov and trade unions of 1960 style with Kaki dress and dirty office env. I think most of us still like that socialist env.
Some are crying about farmers? What is their contribution to poor and farmers anyway? If they are so concerned, go to villages volunteer to develop their living conditions and stay there. Don't just cry by sitting in AC rooms and internet and criticize these modern corporations that are changing the lives of new generation.
What market value you guys talking about? If there is no IT or any modern industry development, then what is the value of these lands in city outskirts and villages? Who will buy them by paying lakhs and crores per acre?
These lands generate hardly few thousand rupees per year and farmers atempting suicides without water and income levels. Because of IT development , these lands got that so called Market value. Many farmers got lakhs and crores of rupees by selling their lands. Don't cry just because IT companies developed them and now they are in crores / acre but when formars sold it they are just lakhs / acre. Realize that they are just thousands per acre and no one was ready to buy before this IT boom.
We guys want, international airports, 8 lane roads, lakhs in salaries and want to sell your lands for crores but happy to criticize our own entrepreneurs who sacrifice so much to develop these companies...
If you can't appreciate these companies or if some of us not happy working for IT jobs , just resign and become central or state govt. employee or if u dare, become social activist or entrepreneur and try to do some good thing to society , just don't keep giving messages from ur living room.
RE:IT is fun
by Baba Kamdev on Feb 19, 2007 04:05 PM
Very well said Raju.
If it were not for the opening of economy and also peacking of some sectors like IT/BIOTECH/FINANCE then wonder what would have happened to such a large population struggling for government job.
At least a coupl working at a call center can earn a more decent living than a giovernment job, if at all they got.
There are opportunities.lets use them.Lets not make criticizing a fashion-statement.
Mr. Rahul Oberoi and et al supporting the cause of some kind social unjustice met to the poor people. I do agree bits and parts that media has larger role to play in highlighting these issues. But it not about the companies who aquire land to build their offices. The problem definately lies elsewhere.
In your view, in a country like India, you can not afford to aquire larger lands for corporations, hospitals, other institutes? I am sure you are wrong. While your essesntial problem is with the system how it works. We should have a standard rehab policy and thats surely missing! You can not grill the LOBO's out of it! Neither can you hate the IT community for having "GRABBED" land!
You need to understand one thing that it is at the hand of govt to execute proper plans which would eventually eradicate the concern right from root level! How many companies will you hate and how many can you actually stop by writing in this blog!? You may point at IT companies for grabbing land and displacing poor people. That means in one or small way even few Oberoi'S should start building small mansions and palaces to be used only for residential purpose! One doesn't need so much of residential space for self content after all compared to companies who are doing it for larger emlpoyee no! People are thankful having brought at least a distinction to Indian economy.
And let me highlight even this, when Keonics Electronics City in Hosur road was built, Infy was one of the very few companies who bought land and you may validate this from your database about the nos displaced and who are not in so-good-shape!
Instead the venting out at incorrect places we must understand where should we strike at so as to gradually solve this issue. Stopping industry is only talking like an Orthodox who's simply concerned about the next door, unaware of the global competetion to which the conuntry must buckle up with.
Indian IT companies cater to the service industry. That is they make products which automate different domain processes. That is why they recruit people from diverse engineering background because they have the domain knowledge.
What has come about us in India ? Are we unable to handle this new found status ? The media is going to town talking about trivial issues while ignoring the issues that matter. yes, we in the IT /ITES space are basking and do have pools - but a larger issue is that of the land being grabbed by our companies from poor helpless farmers in the name of special economic zones. Will the media ever highlight their cause ?
The Lobo's of the world above give their crap and the media laps it up and glamorises it as India shining. Will the media ever flash their bulbs on farmers being short changed ? The fact that the average rural folk or slum dweller doesnt have enough water to drink in this 60th year of independence instead of wank offices ? No - it will talk about Vijay Mallya having a bath in mineral water flown in from Paris.Will Rediff ever wake up to the fact that people whose lands have been snatched away for Economic zones or land sharks for developing our Country and putting it on the world map are starving today ? Their lives have been thrown out of gear and their children do not get a square meal a day ? Nopes - Rediff - we are proud of you - go on talking about SRK, Shilpa Shetty, Should AB be president or what wine is available for $50k a bottle. After all India is rocking - the poor and the helpless in India be damned.
RE:We are such ball talkers
by Sarkar on Feb 18, 2007 02:34 PM
You are absolutely right, Rahul ! the way the media is lapping up crap from the IT sector is amazing. Gyms inside offices -- aha what fun. But at whose cost is this fun going on ? The common man can go to hell -- feed him poison in the form of pesticide, make him drink gutter water in the name of cold drinks -- find out as many ways as you can of cutting his pocket and you are counted as the vibrant future of India. There is an old song which I can quote -- "is you money that good will it buy you forgiveness do you think it could ..."
RE:We are such ball talkers
by Confused on Feb 18, 2007 08:17 AM
Dear Rahul, What you said is undisputable. you wrote very well using right words. But will any one will listen? and if no one is listining then what the people who really care for the poor and injustice should do? Confused i am/
RE:We are such ball talkers
by aashish sss on Feb 18, 2007 10:32 AM
In todays worls its all about business. Some companies dont pay taxes, some have illegal means to evade them and some have their lobby systems supporting all these. Harrsament of the farmers n all stuff is just so trivial. When co. like my Infy acquire land they provide equal opportunities for ppl in those villages to take up jobs for campus maintenence and alike. And lands are not grabbed at gun point. Look at the Pune DC. Villagers in hinjewadi are enjoying more benefits than they could have ever imagined. They can now afford better education for their children et all. B ve ppl.. look at the height we are set to achieve, dnt b afraid of the depths we have left behind. And to understand what Infy is.. u got to be a Infoscion.. and I take pride in saying this after my 7 yrs of loyalty with Infy.. I have been a part of every aspect of its growth.. n m proud to be..
RE:RE:We are such ball talkers
by Rahul Oberoi on Feb 18, 2007 11:42 AM
Stop whining Ashish. Hasn't "your" company taught you to grow up and understand what is being said in what context before jumping up and down like a kid as if his toy is being taken away ? Read the above again and see what is being talked about in general - what the media is harping about - instead of defending what "your" company does to villagers whose land it takes. Incidentally if you must know beyond what your internal company communications has fed you to feel proud about villagers rehab - take a look around yourself before believing in PR spiel.
RE:RE:RE:We are such ball talkers
by Abhishek Chaki on Feb 18, 2007 07:05 PM
Mr. Rahul Oberoi and et al supporting the cause of some kind social unjustice met to the poor people. I do agree bits and parts that media has larger role to play in highlighting these issues. But it not about the companies who aquire land to build their offices. The problem definately lies elsewhere.
In your view, in a country like India, you can not afford to aquire larger lands for corporations, hospitals, other institutes? I am sure you are wrong. While your essesntial problem is with the system how it works. We should have a standard rehab policy and thats surely missing! You can not grill the LOBO's out of it! Neither can you hate the IT community for having "GRABBED" land!
You need to understand one thing that it is at the hand of govt to execute proper plans which would eventually eradicate the concern right from root level! How many companies will you hate and how many can you actually stop by writing in this blog!? You may point at IT companies for grabbing land and displacing poor people. That means in one or small way even few Oberoi'S should start building small mansions and palaces to be used only for residential purpose! One doesn't need so much of residential space for self content after all compared to companies who are doing it for larger emlpoyee no! People are thankful having brought at least a distinction to Indian economy.
And let me highlight even this, when Keonics Electronics City in Hosur road was built, Infy was one of the very few companies who bought land and you may validate this from your database about the nos displaced and who are not in so-good-shape!
Instead the venting out at incorrect places we must understand where should we strike at so as to gradually solve this issue. Stopping industry is only talking like an Orthodox who's simply concerned about the next door, unaware of the global competetion to which the conuntry must buckle up with.
RE:RE:RE:We are such ball talkers
by Saik DJ on Feb 18, 2007 02:21 PM
To do quality Software Work you don't need acres and acres of Land . Infy etc. are trying to have a full proof plan to survive in case US stops outsourcing . Poor guys what can they do when they know there doom will come within 5-6 yrs .
RE:We are such ball talkers
by INR on Feb 18, 2007 08:16 PM
Common people, dont scream on farmers land always...howmuch land they are busying...what is this noise around., There are crores of acres waste land, and government can use. or give to farmers those and take the land where it requires. For business, the place is not important. only location is need, for selling purpose, SEZ is.not the place for selling the prodcuts. so very well govenement get some waste lands or other places not by farmers owneed. Uncessorrily people are always making nuisance onthis..its like if u leave the land , the farmers will earn and get money of what they need. never man. nothing like that
RE:RE:We are such ball talkers
by hello on Feb 19, 2007 12:30 AM
INR, well said!!! I also think to buy the land where these people telling as "Farmers Land" and grow vegetable, Potato, Aloe vera. Believe me. Even jalthropa won't grow peacefully in those land these cheap politicians argue as Farmers Land.
