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Green lessons from Pune


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subhash mali
Theory and Practice
by subhash mali on Dec 17, 2007 06:22 PM  | Hide replies

I am puneite and know for sure that most of things said here are just preeching!! What we have done / implemented so great that other cities can learn from us. Its better they dont hear about pune. Otherwise they will discover what is hell!!!!
Subhash

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vidyasagar vairat
RE:Theory and Practice
by vidyasagar vairat on Dec 17, 2007 06:48 PM
ha ha ha.... my Face become black with carbon when I ride in Pune last Month. Nice achivement !!!!

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human
Dev mantra!
by human on Dec 17, 2007 03:43 PM  | Hide replies

No short cuts for development.. pune is no exception. Some projects in chennai/bangalore also has this wastage recycling, rain harvesting, solar etc.. as essayed in the article the long term solution is always quick and efficient transport within and peripheral to a city.
We need to construct tube like underground railway system what ever may be the cost. This is where we need infra funding and foreign funding.
We need to learn liberalisation doesnt end up giving gr8 cars, mnc proucts but we have the same quality of life for masses. otherwise its a mere failure. Present day planning seems lacking vision.

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dddelhi
RE:Dev mantra!
by dddelhi on Dec 17, 2007 05:11 PM
you are right human..that is what I am trying to expalin to Anil from such a long time....
:-)

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Anil Gonsalves
Panat-come come my friend
by Anil Gonsalves on Dec 17, 2007 03:12 PM  | Hide replies

have played a major role in making Gujarat NO.1 in India? Do you hear anyone say that? I haven't. In Gujarat:

IAS officers=Non-Gujarati
IPS officers=Non-Gujaratis
White collar=many south Indians
teachers=many south Indians
Blue collar work=majority AP, Bihar, WB, Orissa, TN, KA, KL.

So can we argue than that Gujarat industries are running because of all the hard work done by non-Gujaratis? Why not first acknowledge their hard-work-you think Gujarat only achieved this status as No.1 only because of Gujjus? What about the huge role of non-Gujaratis? Why not point that out first before you point to Pune? Every major industry in Gujarat-whatsoever it may be-majority of emplyoyees are ALL non-Gujarati/outsiders. Not local people. Alang and diamond polishing is a case in point. So before pointing to Pune and saying outsiders, please look at Gujarat, and remeber that not only Gujaratis, non-Gujaratis have had a huge role to play in Gujarat's industries. Gujarat is no.1 in India because of hard work done by non-Gujaratis also. No one even talks about it. Pune is nothing; entire Gujarat's industries are powered by non-Gujarati engineers, blue collar, white collar and others.

So before talking of Pune, please see Surat, Vadodara, Ahmedabad and rest of Gujarat.



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sandeep panat
RE:Panat-come come my friend
by sandeep panat on Dec 17, 2007 03:46 PM
hey bhagwan.....now you are at Gujrat after chandigarh, delhi.........why can't you concentrate writing such details on pune problems? I am also a puneitee but don't have any problem accepting the reason that pune citizens (local & outsiders) are unable to save pune...a total mess.... perhaps we lack what nagpur,or other cities citizens care about.

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dddelhi
RE:Panat-come come my friend
by dddelhi on Dec 17, 2007 05:09 PM
seems that anil has problems everywhere except Pune. I am not from Pune still trying to highlight the problems not for the sake of me..but to all Puneits.
Mantra is that learn from other cities models, take positive points and try to implement here.
rather than highlighting that who is wrong, what is wrong.. blaming MMS , sonia. If we can contribute something for the improvement of Pune, It is good for all us...
basis necessity is to look other cities and making an awareness....
Anil has such a good data and he can contribute more no doubt..

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Anil Gonsalves
What is your point exactly Mr. Panat?
by Anil Gonsalves on Dec 17, 2007 03:04 PM  | Hide replies

To Mr. Sandeep Panat:

Outsiders have helped Chandigarh become what it is today.
Outsiders are 70-80 % of Delhi so outsiders have played a key role in Delhi as well. If Delhi contributes, it is definitely also because of outsiders. I don't udnerstand what you mean by outsiders: Tell Me, which city can say: Only because of locals we have progressed? If Delhi and Bangalore are contributing so much tax, do you know how many outsiders are there in these cities? So please consider this. For every one outsider in Pune, there are 500-1000 outsiders in Delhi. But you're silent on that. Why? Do you know how many outsiders are there in Gujarat's chemicals, petrochemicals, textiles, construction, cement, diamond polishing, refining industries? Do you think Alang can function for ONE DAY without outsiders? Do you think Jamnagar, Dahej, Surat cement industry and entire diamond polishing industry-can fuction for ONE DAY without outsiders? please go yourself and see; no Gujaratis are working there; only Gujaratis. Whenever you see any industry in Gujarati-any industry-please keep in mind role of industries in doing that work. All key industries in Gujarat-work is all done by non-Gujaratis. Visit Alang, Surat, Jamnagar, to see for yourself. Does ANY Gujarati even talk about it? Do you hear any Gujarati say "We must give credit to outsiders; if not for them, who would do this work?" or "Without outsiders, what will happen to Gujarat's industries?" or "NON-GUJARATI workers from Bihar, WB,

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girish
RE:What is your point exactly Mr. Panat?
by girish on Dec 17, 2007 04:12 PM
Its Mumbai only which pays more taxes than rest of India

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Praveen Zacchaeus
Pune Green??????
by Praveen Zacchaeus on Dec 17, 2007 02:49 PM

Pune and Green ..... in your dreams

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Sahadevan KK
Gujrath ,Election by Media
by Sahadevan KK on Dec 17, 2007 02:49 PM  | Hide replies

The great chinese thinker Hao Tse Wong from 3rd century BC has said that 'Masses can be easily directed as flock of sheep if u have right kind of Dogs" in same way Media is making masses believe that Modi will win election in gujrath which is absolutely untrue The people of guj are left high and dryt in this BJP rule.and as per private survey by CPI the people of Guj are now looking at left parties for good governance so in next election which will be held in next year(also predicted in this survey) The coommunist party will rule Gujrath No wonder BJP/RSS combine are scared abt this and are employing illegal means to in elections.



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ramachandran nair
RE:Gujrath ,Election by Media
by ramachandran nair on Dec 17, 2007 05:28 PM
Sahadevan, it is only your wishful thinking. gujarat will be ruled by either congress or bjp. no way for communists. I have been reading your writings on this board and I hasten to believe that you are a communist that too a maxist.

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Anil Gonsalves
What's the beef?
by Anil Gonsalves on Dec 17, 2007 02:43 PM

Dear ddelhi:

You are being illogical. I haven't blamed anyone. Let us be clear: MMS, Sonia etc are the reasons behind Delhi's devolopment. Nothing that Delhi govt runs, runs well. DTC case in point. I know exactly what is DTC. You don't need to lecture me. Delhi government is a flop.

I am NOT blaming Sonia, MMS. But Sonia, MMS are the main reason behind Delhi's devolopment. Delhi Metro alone gets more funds than other cities all JNNURM, budgets, funds etc all put together. There is no reason. I think you are a Delhite-how many people have packed up and left because of bad qulaity of life in Pune?

Where you saw good qulaity of life in Delhi?! Only in South Delhi. Not anywhere else. Not in Noida, Gurgaon, suburbs, not in East, West or anywhere else. So what is this Delhi? Only South Delhi?

What futuristic vision? The flyovers built in 1982 have proven totally ineffective. Air pollution is back with a bang-I think you need a reminder: Delhi GOVT did not WANT cng, SC forced them to do it. So please don't give credit where its not due. Otherwise you are being as bad as MMS. Air pollution is coming back as never before, streets are clogged once again, Blue Line-when a CM openly admits she can;t do anything even though 100 people die in one year and 1000 have died in all these years-what you call that? DTC-what is that?

You are talking about corruption: I have only two words for you and all Delhities:

SAINIK FARMS.



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Anil Gonsalves
Dear Sir
by Anil Gonsalves on Dec 17, 2007 02:39 PM  | Hide replies

Dear ddelhi:

You are being illogical. I haven't blamed anyone. Let us be clear: MMS, Sonia etc are the reasons behind Delhi's devolopment. Nothing that Delhi govt runs, runs well. DTC case in point. I know exactly what is DTC. You don't need to lecture me. Delhi government is a flop.

I am NOT blaming Sonia, MMS. But Sonia, MMS are the main reason behind Delhi's devolopment. Delhi Metro alone gets more funds than other cities all JNNURM, budgets, funds etc all put together. There is no reason. I think you are a Delhite-how many people have packed up and left because of bad qulaity of life in Pune?

Where you saw good qulaity of life in Delhi?! Only in South Delhi. Not anywhere else. Not in Noida, Gurgaon, suburbs, not in East, West or anywhere else. So what is this Delhi? Only South Delhi?

What futuristic vision? The flyovers built in 1982 have proven totally ineffective. Air pollution is back with a bang-I think you need a reminder: Delhi GOVT did not WANT cng, SC forced them to do it. So please don't give credit where its not due. Otherwise you are being as bad as MMS. Air pollution is coming back as never before, streets are clogged once again, Blue Line-when a CM openly admits she can;t do anything even though 100 people die in one year and 1000 have died in all these years-what you call that? DTC-what is that?

You are talking about corruption: I have only two words for you and all Delhities:

SAINIK FARMS.


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sandeep panat
RE:Dear Sir
by sandeep panat on Dec 17, 2007 02:51 PM
This is not fair Anil.
You are totally going out of topic........the question here is not related with comparing delhi/Pune....What remains the fact is, pune hasn't had the infrastructre needed to accomodate the kind of growth it has got. And, surely...the politicitans and so called "Intelligent" puneites didn't involve themselves in this mess at the time of this burst. And, now when the conditions are worst, they are all blaming on outsiders. I feel, outsiders have helped pune to reach upto getting 9000 crore tax money.....This topic "take green lessons from Pune" is a complete bogus.



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sandeep panat
RE:Dear Sir
by sandeep panat on Dec 17, 2007 02:54 PM
well, i admire your knowledge about all the infrastructure issues around cities in india....and, still wonder how you could be so negative while accepting pune's failure in this area.


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dddelhi
RE:Dear Sir
by dddelhi on Dec 17, 2007 05:17 PM
Anil has really a good knowledge but it seems his brain is not accepting the truth about Pune and rather than taking positive points from other cities, he is leading this discussion towards a no point zone by making negative comments :-). It is better if we can discuss how to improve? what plans we can implement? how to approch Govment officials and CM to attract their attention... this article is not highlighting all those problems... if we can focus on this, no doubt once again we can find a better article on pune on rediff ...

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Anil Gonsalves
ddelhi:
by Anil Gonsalves on Dec 17, 2007 02:29 PM  | Hide replies

Population growth in the last decade of selected cities:

Chandigarh: 17 %
Jaipur: 15 %
Ahmedabad: 25 %
Gandhinagar: 17 %
Pune: 50 % (N.B From a MUCH HIGHER base then Gandhinagar, Jaipur, Chandigarh. Population was much bigger to begin with)

I think this answers one of your questions. What infrastructure you saw in Punjab cities other than Chandigarh? Ludhiana, Sangrur, Jalandhar, Kapurthala-Where you saw that? Please let me know. That too, I don't need to remind you: Le Corbusier was not a Punjabi IAS offical! He is the reason why Chandigarh has good infra. You know this. What Punjab government has to do to with it? What have they done? Bought new buses? Bought new taxis? New colleges, flyovers-what? They have raped the city totally. Otherwise tell me one thing: In 50 years, why Chandigarh has remained a small town? Why even in 50 years, all that Chandigarh has are government departments and defence establishements? With all the infra-why Hyderabad, Kochi, Pune overtook it in tax contribtion? Even in 50 years, why they still struggle to contribute more than 1500-1800 crores when Hyderabad has crossed 11,000 crores and even Pune has touched 9,000? Why has Chandigarh has stagnated to such an extent that in tax, industrial output, indirect tax, economy, other citites have overtaken it? Why has illegal construction been so rampant, water problems, power cuts are rampant, illegal colonies and land-grabbing by SAD goondas is astronomical. Chandigarh is like Delhi: problem

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dddelhi
RE:ddelhi:
by dddelhi on Dec 17, 2007 02:34 PM
and even Pune has touched 9,000?
so where is this all money gone...the hard-earned money looted from employees in the form of tax is vanished in Pune...why? one reason lack of vision, how to take money from central...? maharastra gov does not know because they are lacking in planning..they have no idea what to do? how to do devlopment ? for what purpose we need money from central...
if they are clarified on these points, i know central gov will give full support...
without having any proper planning you would also not like to invest money....


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dddelhi
RE:RE:ddelhi:
by dddelhi on Dec 17, 2007 02:40 PM
all these figures for Pune, I believe maharastra has in its records like population growth..
then they should give first preference for the development keeping in mind that it is the fastest population growing city in maharastra...
they should come with adequate plans and policies. It is not the job of central gov...it is the job of maharastra gov for which they are appointed....
and if you can do something to make them aware ....i will be more happy..by the way i am also trying my best.....

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Anil Gonsalves
RE:ddelhi:
by Anil Gonsalves on Dec 17, 2007 02:42 PM
I notice you have tacitly admitted that all my other points are correct. Almost all the 9,000 crores have all gone into the coffers of Govt of India-maybe some of them even into funding Delhi Metro, flyovers, roads, new buses:)

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dddelhi
RE:ddelhi:
by dddelhi on Dec 17, 2007 05:04 PM
wrong, what i mean is to say that puneits and maharastra gov do not how to take money from central...


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Anil Gonsalves
So-what's your response?
by Anil Gonsalves on Dec 17, 2007 02:18 PM  | Hide replies

Because Money is not coming from Delhi government, but from Central government. There is a difference. Hope you know the difference. Difference is as follows: Govt of India has a budget of $ 400 billion, Delhi has a budget of 2,000 crores. That is the difference. So if Delhi cannot fund Delhi itself, can you ask Deshmukh to fund Pune? Delhi government needs money from GOI, it cannot spend money on its own-because it does not have any. You have no problem with GOI funding Delhi and not Government of NCT of Delhi-you are not saying Diksit must fund Delhi. There you are happy GOI funding it. Then why you want Deshmukh to fund Pune? Sonia and Manmohan fund Delhi-so why can't they fund Kolkata, Bangalore, Pune, Hyderabad? Even if these cities are state capitals-so what? What difference does it make? Please don't ask state government to fund-is Sheila Dikshit funding Delhi Metro? NO!! That is why Sonia/Manmohan must fund Pune and all other cities with the same amount of money as spent in Delhi. Same 100,000 crores. Then see. Kapish? If you don't ask GNCT to fund Delhi even it is a separate state with its own government, then why do you ask YSR, Kumaraswamy, Deshmukh, Buddhadeb to fund their cities? Why the double standards?


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dddelhi
RE:So-what's your response?
by dddelhi on Dec 17, 2007 02:27 PM
so in your opinion GOI, MMS and Sonia are the main culprits behind the non development of Pune.
then what the hell maharastra gov is doing here? why are these people are in government..why do not they fight for Pune from Central Gov... give them your futuristic plan, justify it and ask for money...and i know they will approve it...
carores of funds are remained unutilized in Pune PMC and there is no contractor available for these roads and other infrastructure...for this also you blame GOI, MMS and sonia....
dear... come out of dreams and your biased thinking..
there are so many factors resposbile rather than GOI, MMS and Sonia and abobe all lack of futuristic vision which is lacking here in the midset of Puneits, mindset of maharastra gov and administration....

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Anil Gonsalves
RE:So-what's your response?
by Anil Gonsalves on Dec 17, 2007 02:38 PM
Dear ddelhi:

You are being illogical. I haven't blamed anyone. Let us be clear: MMS, Sonia etc are the reasons behind Delhi's devolopment. Nothing that Delhi govt runs, runs well. DTC case in point. I know exactly what is DTC. You don't need to lecture me. Delhi government is a flop.

I am NOT blaming Sonia, MMS. But Sonia, MMS are the main reason behind Delhi's devolopment. Delhi Metro alone gets more funds than other cities all JNNURM, budgets, funds etc all put together. There is no reason. I think you are a Delhite-how many people have packed up and left because of bad qulaity of life in Pune?

Where you saw good qulaity of life in Delhi?! Only in South Delhi. Not anywhere else. Not in Noida, Gurgaon, suburbs, not in East, West or anywhere else. So what is this Delhi? Only South Delhi?

What futuristic vision? The flyovers built in 1982 have proven totally ineffective. Air pollution is back with a bang-I think you need a reminder: Delhi GOVT did not WANT cng, SC forced them to do it. So please don't give credit where its not due. Otherwise you are being as bad as MMS. Air pollution is coming back as never before, streets are clogged once again, Blue Line-when a CM openly admits she can;t do anything even though 100 people die in one year and 1000 have died in all these years-what you call that? DTC-what is that?

You are talking about corruption: I have only two words for you and all Delhities:

SAINIK FARMS.



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