I do not agree that young women are not taken seriously at work. It is wrong to take it personally. Everyone goes through this feeling at some point or the other, but making this a gender biased statement is not true. It can be in some cases, but not all. I think its high time that we, the educated lot of people talks on flat grounds rather than biasing our judgements based on gender or race. Otherwise, everyone will have their own set of plights to talk about based on their experiences and imposing it on others as a general phenomena.
Young men or women. If you are inexperienced, only a fool is going to believe you. If you prove yourself experienced and reliable enough, you'll gain responsibilities and respect. Regardless of your age.
The above article is incorrect I for one want to take young and middle aged women seriously and i want to take them to places , but they are not willing, so one cannot make a general statement
Re: Different Views
by Amit Prasad on Mar 11, 2010 05:24 PM
Quite true Mr. Vijay Kumar, their personal commitments are so many that career is the first thing they are forced to give up when the crunch time comes.
The oppression of men is an extremely complex phenomenon to understand. It has always been hidden, disguised, indirect, innumerous, severe, carefully conspired and going on for thousands of years. Above all, it's carefully and forcibly unacknowledged. Today, it would be seen as 'startling' and 'unbelievable' at the best and outright 'ridiculous' and 'scandalous' at the worst to talk about man's oppression. It's not easy to see even the misery and pain of men, even when it is extreme. It is so well hidden not only from the world but from the man himself. It's just not acknowledged. No place for it in the society. No value for a man's tears. Tears are 'feminine'. The mechanisms of man's oppression are just as invisible as his tears. Once you are sensitised and you learn to look beyond what is 'obvious' and you slowly start witnessing it all. The first things that point to the size and nature of these invisible mechanisms are the extraordinary and intense pressures that the society (or rather a section of it) exerts to sustain or strengthen the mechanisms. The masculinity with which boys are born, is natural masculinity. This is given by nature. However, society has created a mechanism whereby it does not acknowledge this natural masculinity. It has instead created its own version, which we shall call 'social masculinity'. Social masculinity is not naturally endowed, but has to be granted by society.
Re: Men Are Oppressed Too!
by Tall Male on Mar 08, 2010 10:42 PM
Society does not accept a person as a 'man' unless he fulfils certain pre-conditions of roles or expectations of society, referred to as 'male gender and sexual roles', or 'social masculinity roles. A person is not considered a man without social manhood. This social mechanism is designed to control male behaviour, especially male sexual behaviour. The result is silent severe oppression of men.
Some of the "Social Masculinity" Roles are: 1. Men don't have any emotions. They should suppress their emotions and problems. 2. They are rough and tough and should NOT complain about women. 3. Men are expected to be physically tall, strong, and brave. 4. They are supposed to protect and provide women. 5. They are supposed to make sacrifices, even sacrificing their lives, to protect and provide women. 6. They are not supposed to have weaknesses or vulnerabilities. They must not show feelings as these would make them appear weak or vulnerable. 7. They should always be willing to fight their way and defend their families. They should not return from a fight. 8. They should not have any feelings.
The result is that men are far more prone to heart attacks and stroke. Their life expectancy is some 5-6 years less than women, worldwide. Similarly, the social construct of manhood makes them NOT to complain about women, even if their women are causing them grievious hurt! Women's education is subsidised and a lot of support systems exist for them to open shop.
Re: Re: Men Are Oppressed Too!
by Tall Male on Mar 08, 2010 10:42 PM
While men are paying 82% of taxes in India and are denied any kind of support systems. Yet, it is men who are supposed to provide for women. Every year, 3 times more men commit suicide than women and yet there are no support systems or even laws to protect men. All this is happening in a society that claims to have dumped the earlier traditional roles and concepts of gender and has women working in all fields and having more constitutional rights than men!
It is high time that men are liberated from their traditional roles and their masculinity is redefined based in natural masculinity and NOT with the kind of contradictions stated above. Men have always been considered as disposable and have been taken for granted.
It is high time men understand that are NOT privileged and have been suppressed too!
Re: Re: Re: Men Are Oppressed Too!
by Amit Prasad on Mar 11, 2010 05:26 PM
Tall Male, when did this turn into a 'men debate', stop whining pls and focus on the article overall, not just one statement there.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Men Are Oppressed Too!
by Lost Indian on Apr 06, 2010 12:29 AM
@AmitPrasad - Why don't you let the gentleman express himself, if you are not in line with his thoughts, then move out. Why poke your butt into the matter. He has a perception which he wants to share which has some amount of truth to it, if not ALL
Men have proved that they will continue to follow the tradition of the country – protecting and providing women of the society. In this process, even if he stands to lose, the society will not tolerate their deviation. Women in the Indian culture are revered for their sanctity, modesty and sacrificial attitude toward children. The culture is destroyed. Now women are clad in skimpy clothes flaunting their bodies to attract and seduce men and also continue to demand the same reverence from the society. It is unfair for intelligent people but it is perfectly fair according to women. Quite rightly so as they stand to lose if they allow anybody to look at them with less reverence, even after shedding all their sanctity, modesty and sacrificial nature, which we are now seeing in modern women. Men in India have brought up to protect and provide women and they have helplessly accepted it. He is demanded to behave responsibly and he must always think first about his family welfare and never about himself. That can easily be proved when we see men working in the most inhospitable environment, doing hazardous jobs, slogging in the scorching sun only to feed a two square meal to his family. Has this sort of sacrificial code of conduct of men ever been revered or praised? Never. They have always been money-making machines of the family.
Re: Men’s status in India
by Tall Male on Mar 08, 2010 10:40 PM
Now, after the women empowerment campaign, the condition of men is deteriorating to a dangerous level. The legal system and the political system conveniently makes a scapegoat out of a man for their vested interest. Police, who are under pressure from their peers to solve the case, will implicate an innocent man and as far as confession is concerned, police hire hefty monstrous men to give these innocent men third degree. Bollywood has always made a point that whenever a woman is in trouble, a man comes to rescue her and beats the crap out of a male villain. And women obviously stand to gain to maintain a piercing competition and hostility between two men. The mindset is so much altered by movies that people spontaneously come to the conclusion that if a woman is complaining, then the man has to be at fault and should be punished. Credibility of women in India is stupendous. The lifestyle of men has always been ignored for centuries. It is not a rare sight to watch an unassuming man peeing on the side of the road. Women, as usual, think that they are men and so they have no shame. But the Government is more interested in beautifying posh locality instead of providing essential sanitation and public toilets at key spots. Most poor men would be seen bathing near a water tank on the side of a road and people never think that they are helpless because they have no other alternative to keep themselves healthy.
Re: Re: Men’s status in India
by Tall Male on Mar 08, 2010 10:40 PM
A husband is not immune to his wife’s vicious nagging that goes on ceaselessly. But men have accepted it as a part and parcel of a married life. Every man who is about to get married is always teased with statements like, “Now you are dead, you will be sacrificed like a goat and you will have to keep a smiling face.” Conversely, when a woman is about to get married, she is meticulously taught with statements like, “Keep your husband under your control.” Amazingly, we all know about it but we still remain skeptical when a man complains of being harassed by his wife. To add insult to injury, women have introduced domestic violence bill wherein the wife will have a legal license to drag her husband to jail if he resists her domination. Alarmingly, there is hardly any aggressive objection from men on such laws that will strangulate their individuality, identity and freedom. And women, they are constantly reminding the society that they are women and so men is obligated to protect and provide women with no exception whatsoever. It is already late but it is better late than never to realize and accept the fact that men have always been a weaker gender and a second class citizen of the country. A citizen who is born to grow up as money making machine and act as a pet dog to their wife in order to maintain the traditional culture bombarded on him since centuries. If we men won’t understand another ma
Re: Re: Re: Men’s status in India
by Amit Prasad on Mar 11, 2010 05:28 PM
Focus on 'majority' opinion and what happens to men in this world, 1% would experience what you have mentioned above, remaining 99% would not agree with you.
When one is new, we are under scrutiny. Soon for most, the shine wears off & for others, it gets better like old wine! Others take notice of the inherent qualities & abilities! As they say, form is temporary but talent is permanent!
Academic education can give a head-start but can hide a lot on inherent disabilities, mostly as a team player. Any institution benefits only from joint team effort.
Young women have a lots going for them now. It is recognised that they are better than men in many respects especially for eye to detail. Yes, they can be more pre-judged by some men & even women! Finally, it is better to play to our limitations & also to strenghths. Start off on a clean slate & learn along the way! We cannot be responsible for what others think but the reality will take over & soon will be fair & square!
Re: Just carry on!
by Amit Prasad on Mar 11, 2010 05:30 PM
Shiva, you deserve to be commended for such a mature posting, completely agree. Its in the eyes of the beholder to seek value from young people, men or women. And if one is confident then either sex can convince people around of their abilities to deliver.
