Let hindus wear their tilaks, let sikhs keep their daggers, let muslims wear their hijab, if they want to, anyone, everyone. End of discussion. Anyone else who thinks otherwise is politically motivated, biased.
When the British left India, muslims in India wanted a separate country and we gave it to them though it is they who had invaded India in the first place.
When the Shah Bano case came up, we allowed Muslim personal law take precedence over Indian law.
Now our PM says minorities should get preference, by which he means only Muslims.
My question is why is it that hindus end up being at the receiving end being the majority community? Unless this stops, we cannot progress as a nation.
Re: India is a soft state. That is the problem
by siddhartha xx on Sep 05, 2009 01:59 PM
"When the Shah Bano case came up, we allowed Muslim personal law take precedence over Indian law."
it applied only to muslims, so how exactly does it impact hindus ?
stop playing the self pity card... if u talk to a muslim he says he is at the wrong end of the stick. If you talk to a hindu he says he is at the wrong end of the stick.
Human nature ? Important to see things from varied perspectives, not just from ones own.
Being conservative should not be a matter of force but by choice. Let the muslim women decide what they really want. Let them choose if they want to protect their identity or become the icon of the nation like Shania Mirza. Similarly let them choose their own institutes which suits their preferences. Its all about freedom. Just debating what is good/bad is not
Re: Let women decide
by gururaj on Sep 05, 2009 05:37 PM
i agree with you.If they prefer religion over education, they should find an institute which suits them.I don't find any reason to make an issue out of it other than for publicity.I think they already have more freedom.If this one is accepted then these people will come up with more demands.
Re: Genuine doubt
by arshad mirza on Sep 05, 2009 12:51 AM
well..cupid..yes they can..go to engineering or medical college in AMU and see by yourself, many hindu students sporting their religious symbols like tilaks, bindis, maalaas etc etc..but this is not the issue here my friend...although i believe that every institution and country is free to devise laws and every students or residents of the country are suppose to follow them. There are laws of lands and there are laws of religion..if you dont want to follow the laws of the land better leave the land or the institute instead of making it a freedom of religion issue...but i wonder what's wrong in wearing head scarf or sporting a beard and what threat they pose to other students or residents...i seriously wonder..
Re: Re: Genuine doubt
by HRM on Sep 05, 2009 08:07 AM
i think nowadays, the girls themselves prefer not to sport a bindi. My personal choice a girl without a bindi looks good. :)
Re: Re: Genuine doubt
by siddhartha xx on Sep 05, 2009 02:03 PM
"I know many convents in India which do not allow girls wearing bindis."
What do bindis have to do with religion ? They are for cosmetic purposes. Many other cosmetic things like lipstick etc are also banned in the same schools.
On other hand no one dissallows Tilaks etc from hindu ceremonies.
I used to be a heavy smoker, and got admitted in a rehab center run by christians to get rid of the habit. There all rules are as per their tradition, including going to their church, and also their bible class. I used to attend all, more so becoz it is the rule there as compared to believing it. I cannot go there and ask them to change their rules to suit me, nor can I ask them to exempt me (not that they will do so if I ask them to).
Any and every institution has a rule, and every individual who choses to go to that institution has to follow it. If they feel that the rules are not suited for them, they are free to go to other institutions which accomodate their beliefs. Making a fuss over it or saying that symbols of other religions shud also be banned is childish.
I feel the time wasted fighting for this issue could have been used productively to gain more knowledge and secure one's career. Saying that u would choose to discontinue ur education if u cannot wear a scarf will only push u more backward and make u more insecure.
Re: Rules are Rules
by parvez tuy on Sep 05, 2009 01:57 PM
It is not about the rules by of an individual college. It is the Indian Constitution which does not prohibit anybody in the country to not to follow their respective religion then who the hell are these intitutions those make their own rules and regulations and impose on others. As per Indian Law, no discrimination can be done on the basis of a particular person practicing his religion.
Re: Rules are Rules
by HRM on Sep 01, 2009 11:03 AM
Religious Institution is different from Educational instituion. respecting religious sentiments inside a religious institution shows that u r a nice human. Whereas educational instituion is different. Educational instituion should b the fountain head in preaching secularism to its students and set an example. It should not be the other way. Educational instituion is the only place where secularism should not alone b preached but also should b practised.
Re: Re: Rules are Rules
by sanath on Sep 01, 2009 11:12 AM
Again I beg to differ, Institution are Institutions, be it educational or religious. Also the example I gave of the rehab center, it is not a religious institution, it is a medical institution.
Are you aware that in Xtian management run colleges and hostels girls are not allowed to use flowers, kumkum, or even bangles or artificial jewelry ? This is not for simplicity, but becoz the nuns running the institution believe that it goes against their beliefs, and I am telling u this from an experience that my sister had. Nobody protested or even thought to protest, and my father also took the stand that she is being admitted there as it is a very prestigious college and she shud give more importance to education, and if their rules demand so, it shud be obeyed.
I would feel more safe in a country if every parent teaches their children likewise that education is more important than so called symbols of religions and that not wearing a scarf or beard or kumkum is not going to harm ur religion one bit.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Rules are Rules
by sanath on Sep 01, 2009 11:37 AM
Again I beg to differ, any religion that demands all institutions to bow to their demands and change their rules is more condemnable !
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rules are Rules
by sanath on Sep 01, 2009 12:31 PM
HRM, requests are not taken to court, nor are they given with masses agitating...in Chennai and Delhi the concerned ppl went to court, and in Hyd it was a protest which turned violent...now how can that be a request ?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rules are Rules
by HRM on Sep 01, 2009 12:12 PM
dear sanath, Pls understand there is no demand but there is only a request. Can a request be condemnable?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rules are Rules
by sanath on Sep 01, 2009 12:35 PM
religious tolerance in an educational institution shud be when u talk about education..for eg, if the institution had not allowed education or shown bias in imparting education becoz the concerned ppl belonged to a religion, I whole heartedly support it...but to make a fuss over a head scarf when what u have gone there to gain is education, is very childish...I think this shud be looked at from a more broader perspective rather than narrowly, for no religion is so weak that not wearing a scarf or a tilak is going to harm it.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rules are Rules
by sanath on Sep 01, 2009 11:40 AM
That is the basic difference, what I have learnt from my childhood is that religion has no place in an educational institution, what matters in an educational institution is education and education alone !
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rules are Rules
by HRM on Sep 01, 2009 01:37 PM
Tolerance is also education. I would say it is the best education taught to the student. Wearing a head scarf may b seen less valuable by other religion, but not for those who have large sentiments attached with it. If this sentiment is not allowed, tomorrow a Brahmin will b targeted for wearing a sacred thread, a Sardarji would b targeted for wearing a turban, a Christian would be targeted for wearing Cross in the educational institutions. Therefore tolerance is the only solution. Pls understand this.
Re: Rules are Rules
by Shashikumar on Sep 01, 2009 11:05 AM
I agree. when their is a clash b/w Institution rules and individual/community rules, who wins?
Since Institution is not keen on changing rules for an individual. That individual should look for other college. It is not as if all colleges in Mangalore have banned burqa.
Re: Re: Rules are Rules
by HRM on Sep 01, 2009 11:11 AM
When there is such a clash, Educational Institutions should b tolerant towards the religious sentiments and magnanimously should change its rule. This is how religious tolerance is preached to its students.
Re: Re: Re: Rules are Rules
by sanath on Sep 01, 2009 11:15 AM
u mean in an institution where there are 1000s of students, if a handful of them want the rules to be changed, the institution shud change it ? My dear sir, that is a very dangerous stance to take ! Imagine a society where one person decides that the whole society shud change their rules to accomdate his belief !
Re: Re: Re: Re: Rules are Rules
by HRM on Sep 01, 2009 11:25 AM
There is a difference. A handful of students cannot CHANGE the rule and can only request for an AMENDMENT for the sake of their religion. It is in no way going to prejudice the whole society. For eg., there are 1000 students & 100 belong to minority, amending the rule for these 100 will teach the majority about tolerance.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rules are Rules
by HRM on Sep 01, 2009 01:54 PM
Educational Institution alone can teach tolerance becoz, it is the student community. For all practical reasons, a Home or a Society where a person live cannot teach Tolerance. It can only teach Intolerance.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rules are Rules
by sanath on Sep 01, 2009 12:29 PM
I want education in educational institutions...tolerance can be taught at home and practiced in society ! Leave the educational institutions alone plz !
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rules are Rules
by HRM on Sep 01, 2009 11:41 AM
Tolerance is Majority being tolerant towards the Minority and not a Minorty towards Majority. If the Minority accepts tolerance, he feels that the Majority had crushed his religious sentiments. The Majority will b termed as INTOLERANT which is not good sign for the educational institutions in india. Which u want?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rules are Rules
by sanath on Sep 01, 2009 11:35 AM
so then why not the 100 accept the rules of the remaining 900 and set an example of tolerance ?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Rules are Rules
by HRM on Sep 01, 2009 11:25 AM
There is a difference. A handful of students cannot CHANGE the rule and can only request for an AMENDMENT for the sake of their religion. It is in no way going to prejudice the whole society. For eg., there are 1000 students & 100 belong to minority, amending the rule for these 100 will teach the majority about tolerance.
Re: Rules are Rules
by cupid on Sep 01, 2009 10:35 AM
have you gave up smoking now??? as iam struggling to give up smoking even though never was i a heavy smoker
Re: Re: Rules are Rules
by sanath on Sep 01, 2009 10:37 AM
yes, i have given up...it is 2-1/2 years now, successfully quit, earlier used to smoke up to 10 packs a day
Re: Rules are Rules
by amit saxena on Sep 01, 2009 10:33 AM
If you read bible there is no harm .We can take good things from all religion but the problem is converting from one religion to another for money.The missionaries are giving 2 lacks for each person to convert.In every city they have their churchs doing this.
Re: Re: Rules are Rules
by sanath on Sep 01, 2009 10:39 AM
amit, dont divert from the topic plz; it is not about the missionaries converting; it is about the rules of an institution and how one is bound to obey it once one steps into that institution. U cannot ask exemptions or ask them to change it to suit u.
As far as the missionaries converting, I reserve my comments !
Re: Re: Re: Rules are Rules
by Rahul Prakash on Sep 01, 2009 03:00 PM
Education in Educational institution please. Do not mix religion and religious beliefs into it. If wearing a scarf is important, then, that person should look out for a college which looks after religious beliefs and not education.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Rules are Rules
by HRM on Sep 02, 2009 10:07 AM
if one institution becomes intolerant, the other institutions may also follow it. Where will the minority go?
