These so called B schools should not be considered as educational institutions rather they are enterprises or business houses.They consider their students as their customers & and as any businessman lure their customer by offering good discounts or schemes in the same way these business schools lure their students by promising super plscements with handsome pay packages. i dont understand why people are interested in doing MBA & why organistions need people those who have done MBA. May be because Students want to become managers just by doing MBA & organistions think they are better managers & can manage well. But the reality is that managers are not made or created by giving them merely a degree. To become a successful manager you need to have a vast experience in the industry & must have successfully come out of all sort of odds in the business cycle. To be asucessfull manager one has to work as an enterprenuer & not as a seviceman. He has to experience by putting himslf in the place of the owner of the company,Finacer of the company, worker of the company ,vendor of the company etc and then analyse their problems & slove them wihout affecting any status of the organistion by all humble & ethical means. To be a succesfull manager one does't require any degree or diploma but what is required is his experience & skills to understand the limitations as well as the capabilities of his organistion & work towards his one and only goal that is the growth of his organisatio
Re: Experience make successful Managers not just a MBA degree
by HRM on Aug 18, 2009 02:04 PM
Before joining a MNC's These grads should get some training and hands on experience in issues relating to sick industries. The Govt. should also utilize these people by introducing post-graduation apprentice program in sick industries.
Students joining for any professional course, are nurtured to become a highly paid employee. In this respect students and their parents opt for schools having a very good placement record. This ensures the students to repay their huge educational loans and expenses incurred during that period. In this modern period every institute concentrates on developing all kind of possible infrastructural facilities and not human resources. Only e very few faculty are capable of grooming students in their inborn talents. For others this is just a job. Hence many students coming out of these B schools are with pseudo knowledge which is incapable to work in a demanding situation. That is why frustration, boredom and lack of interest comes. It is very difficult to have a solution for this. Gradually improve the quality of our resources and groom students according to their capabilities and talents.
The Govt. should seriously consider in implementing apprentice ( atleast for 5 yrs )for the top B-school grads. There many sick public sector/govt.undertakings in india which is being disinvested or in the verge of closures. When these grads claim that they r the best talents available in whole of India, let them convert these sick industries into a profit sector using their talent. These grads should understand that working in a MNC and making it more profitable from Indian soil is nothing but a betrayal of our mother land.
Re: The real test of top B-schools!
by Pramit Roy on Aug 18, 2009 03:58 PM
Lets put it this way, IIM grads make 5 times more money than you and it hurts your stomach that they make money and you don't!!
So, you won't them to be pulled down a peg or two so that you don't suffer from an inferiority complex...laughable Mr HRM...seriously laughable!!
Re: Re: The real test of top B-schools!
by HRM on Aug 18, 2009 04:53 PM
Infact the self-seeking politicians and rowdies make more money than IIM's...does this matter to anyone? Iam not hurt whether u make 5 time more money than me... The point is when IIM's are hyped so much, r they living upto the expectation? what is their contribution to our country? Pls read my messg carefuly. Iam not devaluing the grads. In fact i want these brains to serve our country for a limited period to uplift our economy. In turn iam sure u will see the other side of the coin which will definitely improve ur managerial skills. Pls dont be a frog inside a pond.
Re: Re: Re: The real test of top B-schools!
by Sujith Varghese on Aug 20, 2009 02:30 PM
Good thinking HRM and do understand that there like pramit roy who will try to pull you done. Never take it seriously because they criticize first then starts to think....
I think what Pramit and some others are saying is perfectly correct. He is just stating the practical facts and the professor is talking about the ideal situation.
The fact is that since childhood we are so much socially conditioned by family and peer pressure that in any case we do not take up course as per our aptitude or skills. IITs or IIMs come much later, we have killed our instincts since 10th standard itself.
For example taking arts is like a sin, at least in the smaller cities.
So we follow a mad race of IITs, IIMs, corporate excellence not once realizing that a great philosopher, writer, singer, journalist, sportsperson or scientist might be dying a slow and painful death in the meantime!
Its like living in the Matrix. No one actually realizes that clearing CAT or getting an I banking job is not the last thing in the world, for that matter owning a Camry or Audi. Society needs to give much more respect to people who followed their hearts and did something worthwhile in their own areas of passion.
Sometimes we do realize these things when we fair so poorly in Olympics, when we feel that we are still heavily dependent on the west, when there is absolutely no innovation, we do not have databases and operating systems of our own, no good politicians and so on!
The reason is that good singer, players, politicians and journalists have become I bankers or are writing some obscure code in some office in the US!
Re: Big bucks vs passion
by Dipak Goyal on Aug 19, 2009 12:29 AM
Fully agreed. Hats off to you for putting the fact in such a straight and simple way ( that too without being evena bit rude)
We can't ignore the fact that at the end, we need a job that keeps our stove burning. Its the old question " Which job you should take up? The one which u love or the 1 which pays?" Eventually a vast majority of us will have to stick to second option coz in future we are going to have a family which we need to support.
Re: Big bucks vs passion
by Sujith Varghese on Aug 20, 2009 02:39 PM
I dont completely agree with "Story editor", You can take up a job for living for the time-being but you can pursue your ideal job as a part time.Then when you reach a point where you are confident that you know all the merits/demerits , opportunities/limitation of the job you love you can take a informed decision to make it as a career. The Only thing stop you is your own lack of confidence....
Whenever these school faces problems in placement they startr cribbing and give logics as to perceive value of their education etc......But when economy fares well and their placements are good they show off their CTC stats with pride. If they are not much concerned abt placement then whass the point charging 20L.....as fee. Actully these guys are trying to confusse others. What a Crapp is this
A typical i bank at an IIM campus : 16 to 20 lakhs per annum.....
A typical consulting firm : 12 to 18 lakhs per annum...
A typical manufacturing firm : 5 to 7 lakhs per annum
A typical IT firm : 5 to 7 lakhs per annum
Now tell me, why wouldn't students not want to work for an i bank or consulting firm??? If someone on an IIM campus ends up with a TCS or Infy at a sub 6 pay packet, can you console him?? You cannot!! Where is the question of counselling???
It is indeed galling that such a laughably naive, ill informed and gullible article could have been written by a B school professor.....
First of all, even at IIm Ahmedabad, 2/3rds or 66% of the batch does not get into investment banking/consulting....those jobs are few, scarce and invariably go to the toppers...less than 20% of an IIM batch ends up with investment banking/corporate finance/consulting jobs, at non IIM B schools like SP Jian, NITIE, FMS, such investment banking jobs and consulting jobs are even more scarce....author should have researched before writing!!
Secondly, no amount of career counselling would encourage B school grads to work for manufacuturing or IT, they are just not financially lucrative or attractive enough....people on an IIM campus who work in manufacturing or IT don't work cos of career counselling or maturity of mind, they work in such sectors cos they don't get into i banking or consulting...suffice to say, every student who enters an IIM wants to be in investment banking cos it is seen as the ultimate social lynchpin among white collar jobs.... What is career counselling??? Convincing a student that a job at 1/5th the pay of an i bank is socially and financially as desirable as the job in an i bank?? Can you convince him?? Women on an IIM campus tend to date those i bankers, many of these i bankers within 2/3 years flaunt Camrys and Corollas and within 5 years are able to buy real estate in South Mumbai....who wouldn't want it??
Re: Laughably naive article!!
by bharat on Aug 18, 2009 12:12 PM
who the heck r u dude?? any relation to pranoy roy??ur comment ridiculing the professor of an internationally acclaimed school seems to come from a disdain of all things management....may i, if u dont mind, know ur qualifications and how u know so much about the sentiment in IIMs and the mindset of the students??
Re: Re: Laughably naive article!!
by Bhasmasur Rakshasa on Aug 18, 2009 12:22 PM
Bharat, Rest assured that Pramit is an insider who has seen it all, for your info.....even i'am an IIMC passout and Pramit's comments are above scrutiny, he is cent percent correct!!
Re: Re: Laughably naive article!!
by Pramit Roy on Aug 18, 2009 12:18 PM
I'am an IIM passout of 1997 who has seen all this inside out....i have seen students facing peer pressure and becoming distraught if they don't end up with i banks.....what i'am saying are all facts.....the professor does not have the real grassroots view unfortunately!! his view is typically patronizing....
Re: Re: Re: Laughably naive article!!
by swapnil patil on Aug 18, 2009 02:41 PM
Totally agree pramit... Salaries and "perks" are real.... if Engineering paid well enough...(as it is done in US) or were accorded enough "respect" and career progression (as in Europe).....u wld hv a lot these people just continuing as B Techs.....
and besides....career counselling or not.....most of the so called interests and aptitude are a result of peer pressure itself...
and in defence of Finance and I banking.....they are interesting and fun for a lot of the grads who join there...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Laughably naive article!!
by Pramit Roy on Aug 18, 2009 04:00 PM
Absolutely right, no one is a self sacrificing Mahatma in any sphere of life...the difference between people who make it in life and those who don't is the degree of success..all these pople cribbling about IIM guys and wanting them to work in sick PSUs are plain jealous with people who mint seroius money...which in a way means that they wanted to make that kind of money but missed the bus!! LOL
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Laughably naive article!!
by Sujith Varghese on Aug 20, 2009 03:01 PM
The facts "Pramit roy" stated are all fine, but for how long he has observed it 3, 5, 10 years of the so called toppers in these MNCs. Success is a journey which you cannot consider for just 10 years. It comes even after that. You may have seen school and college dropouts making big business empires now a days. This is because they acquire some skills that IIMs doesnt teach them. The so called toppers who "flaunt Camrys and Corollas and within 5 years are able to buy real estate in South Mumbai" will seize to grow after some time and waste their rest of their lifes in paying EMIs and debts which they acquire or just lives to hold their standard of living. Have you not read the famous book on 25 graduates from IIM-A. Some of them took more than 10 years to build a mighty empire like the one they have right now.You people from IIM should think in that way, otherwise there is no difference between you people and rest of the crowd. Think again "Pramit".
