I am not an supporter of either BJP or Congress both are frauds but this election through EVM that too under Navin Kumar Chawla is clear manupulated and preplanned congress winning election so only they not bothered about reducing petrol diesel prices even though people where hostile towards them. In simple Japan the country that is leader in electronics and engeeniring dont use such EVM's knowing that it can be programmed as per our wish like if butten pressed for the opposition for 10 times can record 3 votes for the ruling party i/e congress. better next time opposition all over India should avoid and dont accept EVM's only through paper ballot that is far better than this evm's.
Re: Fradulent Election through EVM's.
by Vivek Raut on May 16, 2009 10:20 PM
you are staying in which world. In that case cogress would have taken two state wgere it was defeated. please don't misguide people.In that case cidhambaran would have not loosed. If you don;t know the system please don't speak about it.
Re: Fradulent Election through EVM's.
by smrsraja on May 16, 2009 09:24 PM
Do you, Malaysia, Indonesia like countries have shown interest in buying EVMs from BHEL for their elections.
In india, paper based elections were exploited well by miscreants and that is the main reason to switch to EVMs.
Re: Re: Fradulent Election through EVM's.
by Jayaraman V on May 16, 2009 09:47 PM
BHEL is a company dealing in Heavy Electricals. It is BEL, alongwith ECIL, which make this EVMs.
Re: Fradulent Election through EVM's.
by Nayak Nayak on May 16, 2009 10:36 PM
You may not belong to both parties, agreed. But the fact is you belong to a sick group in India where the members always find fault with the machine or men when their expectations are not met. Why don't you become part and parcel of the majority Indians who either appreciate and applaud when a good thing happen.
Re: Fradulent Election through EVM's.
by bambooman on May 16, 2009 09:27 PM
Poor EVM. Why dont u raise this issue in a court of law? When ur party cant win, u have to put the balme on somebody, here somthing.. evm !
Re: WHY BJP LOST
by Baskar Vijayaraghavan on May 16, 2009 10:00 PM
in the name of democracy ,bribing and commison ,huge contracts, rigging etc .... the fate of indian democracy in the hands of culprits will design all evil things ,even your messege conveys, it has become the routine but they do not have guts to face the real verdict of the people. hope one day it will come. we need millon ghandhis to correct our false democracy.
Re: WHY BJP LOST
by Baskar Vijayaraghavan on May 16, 2009 10:01 PM
in the name of democracy ,bribing and commison ,huge contracts, rigging etc .... the fate of indian democracy in the hands of culprits will design all evil things ,even your messege conveys, it has become the routine but they do not have guts to face the real verdict of the people. hope one day it will come. we need millon ghandhis to correct our false democracy.
Re: WHY BJP LOST
by Baskar Vijayaraghavan on May 16, 2009 10:01 PM
in the name of democracy ,bribing and commison ,huge contracts, rigging etc .... the fate of indian democracy in the hands of culprits will design all evil things ,even your messege conveys, it has become the routine but they do not have guts to face the real verdict of the people. hope one day it will come. we need millon ghandhis to correct our false democracy.
Re: WHY BJP LOST
by Raja on May 16, 2009 08:48 PM
"It seems that it is the end of the road for Advanim.It was Advani who had taken charge of the BJP's Hindutva campaign, with the Ayodhya movement culminating in the destruction of the Babri mosque in 1992 and putting the party in the political reckoning within less than a decade of returning just two MPs in 1984.
But he lost the script somewhere in the compulsion of coalition politics that catapulted Vajpayee - the party's moderate face - to the post of prime minister, with Advani as the number two.
In his new avatar, Advani also put the cause of the Ram temple on the backburner. He was resurrected by his party and made the prime ministerial candidate since Vajpayee is out of action because of ill health.
Advani made a strong case for himself by his continuous tirade against Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, calling him weak and subservient to Congress president Sonia Gandhi. But it didn't work.
"This is clearly a vote for Manmohan Singh, who is clean, capable, educated and intelligent;
Mr. Advani must be PM in waiting ever because he is the peoson who himself decided to be PM but who he is to decide, its we people need to decide, It was not but over confidence
Re: Re: WHY BJP LOST
by floatsam on May 16, 2009 09:09 PM
It is not fair to blame LKA for destruction of Babri Masjid. Would like to see his long term mission to build Rama Temple at Ayodhya succeed in his life time. That success of far greater import to the course of Indian history and in the current context to our internal security.
The let down were RSS leaders like Sudarshan, who still insists on a Hindu Nation! This clearly made many suspicious about the political intent of BJP. And there was the communal antics of Varun Gandhi along with his fake degrees which was played up by media out of proportion to undermine the purported intent of Sudarshan and his like minded followers.
Here is a four liner compose few week earlier, Sudarshan lost, Darshan Singh won!
---------- Never knew what was said by Mr Darshan Singh Would assume such colours and truly ring Use of law as mere device, with intent fake Defence of the idea of India would be at stake
Re: Re: Re: WHY BJP LOST
by floatsam on May 16, 2009 09:26 PM
Hindutva can not accommodate most of the cultural giants who have shaped modern Indian identity. Whereas the timbre of Bharatiyata resonates to thoughts and feeling nationwide. For example to the lines of Gitanjali like the one below. ---------------- Where the mind is led forward by thee into ever-widening thought and action---
1)BJP's ideology of divisive politics will not fetch mass support and therefore the party would never get a decisive victory like this unless it changes its strategy to an inclusive politics of all indians. changing strategy is not going to be easy for it. BJP has done so many mistakes repeatedly and with its current breed of blood strained leaders would never be accepeted by all indians. Babri masjid demolition, Godra riots, kandamal riots and many other incidents would not be easily forgotten by indian public. Even if Advani apologises, its not going to help BJP. Only a fresh set of moderate leaders, can bring in such a winning change. 2)Oppurtunistic stand. Nuclear deal was originally given shape by BJP, but when congress implemented, it blindly opposed it shouting all negative about the deal. Sethu project was initially cleared by BJP, after losing power changed its stand completly. During this election campaign,Advani tried to impress people by giving too many false promises. Almost in every state, he promised solution for a most complicated issue in those states in his first 100 days in office. In AP promised to create telengana, in TN promised to intervene in Tamil-Eelam, in WB promised for Gorkaland. All these didnt go well with the voters and they realised all these are going to be false. 3)Sidelined core people issues. All of BJP's election campaign would have a criticism against MMS, Sonia, Rahul Gandhi. And then some rheotric on hindutuva and anti-minority.
Re: Why BJP lost this election
by smrsraja on May 16, 2009 08:33 PM
(continuation) Then finally if time permits some people issues.
4)Dependent on a very few people and not have a good pool of leaders. Yashwant sinha is no match for Chidambaram or MMS to handle finance. Also not many good speakers in BJP except Modi and Advani for defending their party's stand and to convey the policies of the party. Ravishankar Prasad and Rudy and no match for Singhvi, Jeyanthi Natarajan, Kapil Sibal of Congress. Watch the media, and BJP may accuse media is anti BJP, but actually it looks like that because Congress has good spokespersons and defend their party very well. For matching people like Pranab, Kamal nath, kapil sibal there are no leaders in BJP.
5)Atlast, Congress have nothing extraordinarily special for winning, but they have a PM candidate who has got the reputation of honest and sincere. MMS didnt simply played with his words like Advani did and didnt tried to act smart. He just concentrated on his job and that is accepted by the voters.
Re: Re: Why BJP lost this election
by TechieFromNorth on May 16, 2009 08:37 PM
Do u think Ndeal was an issue , people in UP, RAJ,MAH voted for N deal come on..
Ok why BJP lost
NDTV for hijacking any agenda that was uncomfortable to CONG and putting their own agenda instead.
Election Commision for Sytematically rigging the polls thorugh EVM's
you would not find any mention of this anywhere as Media is already sold out to Con...
Re: Re: Why BJP lost this election
by floatsam on May 16, 2009 08:47 PM
Good analysis. And your inherent respect for MMS, while bing sympathetic to BJP shows through.
There is a famous saying "Medium is the message" by writer McLuhan. To get the message through the political leaders need to pass the litmus test of discerning Media. BJP failed to pass this fidelity test.
However, media in general is not biased against BJP, it surely wants them to also succeed for the sake of democracy and free Institutions.
I dont agree with the author that BJP lost due to Varun and its strong Hindutva appeal. If that were true, why did Varun himself win hands down in a state where BJP finished a poor fourth. Also, BJP's excellent showing in Karnataka implies that media's constant nagging about the Mangalore pub incident did little damage to the party - incidentally, Renuka Chowdhury - the most vocal politician about the incident herself lost the election. To add to it, if less Hindutva was the mantra, BJP should have won handsomely in 2004 when their leaders did everything to woo the minority communities and different regions where they had practically no base.
Frankly, BJP now needs a congress-like (congress party between 1998 - 2004) miracle and hard-work to regain themselves. They will always get close to 100 seats or so due to their captive voters. However, any attempt to dilute their core principles on article 356, or UCC would make them lose their captive voters with a fair chance of not cutting the ice with communities who do not form their voters. This could be suicidal for the party.
If BJP wants to get close to coming to power, there is only one mantra. Hard work - paad yatras, reaching out to people right from today. Plus, they have to build some sort of a base in major states like TN, AP, Orissa, West Bengal and Kerala. They have to actively reach out to people in these states and build cadres there. For the longer term, they must be prepared to go alone in Bihar and Mahar.
Re: Why BJP lost?
by Rajeev on May 16, 2009 08:09 PM
U r right ... Hardwork- paad yatras ( Fart Yatras).. All u khaki chaddis are just shot makers and nothing else...
Re: Re: Why BJP lost?
by Rajeev on May 16, 2009 08:09 PM
U r right ... Hardwork- paad yatras ( Fart Yatras).. All u khaki chaddis are just shit makers and nothing else
Re: Re: Why BJP lost?
by floatsam on May 16, 2009 08:27 PM
Khaki Chaddi is denigration for you! Not to those who wear it and wore it. You simply are not aware of the ethos of Khaki.
INC versus BJP, when taken in the refined original pre-independence spirit is a fight between Khadi versus Khaki.
Khadi won this time, but Khaki is still necessary, and you are likely to discern it once you get past the political propaganda which has hidden the underlying truth about the deep seated social ethos behind Khaki.
Re: Re: Re: Why BJP lost?
by rajeev nair on May 16, 2009 10:31 PM
Oh really floatsam?? I use khaki as a toilet mat.. Then what?? I dont want to know your stupid ethos of ur stinking khaki... Khaki may be encessary 4 u to wipe ur tears and not for me loser. go hang urself...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Why BJP lost?
by floatsam on May 17, 2009 12:14 AM
No problem with your toilet mat usage. Next time you step on your mat think of this!.
Khaki originated in India. The word Khaki refers to human shit, as well as mitti ka rang. In pre-independence movement, Khadi dhotis took part in the freedom struggle, Khaki chaddis and pants did not.
Khaki was worn not just by RSS, also by British Indian Army and Police everywhere. Just remember that while Khadi collected the freedom prize, it was the fear of the rebellion by those in Khaki which made the mighty British Empire to do so peacefully. Expect that as the cultural ideas associated with it evolve, shall also be imbued with the ethos to represent the might of Adhunik Bharat.
BJP surely shall make a comeback and the media columns shall not let it down!
--------------------------------
Kiplingesque Comeback ....................
If Sir Kipling could somehow Come back and see the strange sight How fare this grown up boy In that concrete jungle.
What a grotesque sight an Indian makes Who has lost his sight Of his mooring and rustic delights. How hollow those words seem now While once did so much to delight " you could take him out of the jungle But not the jungle out of him."
And then he would look down At those concrete beams; Perhaps reconciling to immense strength Derived from those hollow columns!.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why BJP lost?
by Rajeev on May 17, 2009 10:26 AM
Oh yes.. so the khaki knickers brought us freedom.. losers go and hang yourselves...And BJP is dead for ever, u dumbo..
Re: Why BJP lost?
by Vishal Bahubali on May 16, 2009 08:06 PM
before anything they should think about removing advani and his henchman modi. hate speeches do not work with the youth anymore. the nation has taken enough of saffron hatred.
"paad" yatras ? you mean pad yatras right. these will just create traffic jams and make the common man go more against the bjp.
Re: Why BJP lost?
by floatsam on May 16, 2009 08:14 PM
The BJP government in Karnataka handled Managlore Pub incident with an Iron hand. The concerned person was not even allowed to re-enter Magalore, think this prohibitory order on him is still valid.
Therafter, when Rama Sene threatened agitation in Bangalore during Valentine's Day, there were preventive detention to avoid any incidents.
The reasons for BJP doing well in Karnataka is not clear. If anyting the strong law in favour of secular law may have given the pass marks.
Poor showing in UP and in contrast minorities and fair minded people flocking to the other Gandhi seems to be unintended fall out of deliberate polarising of Varun Gandhi against Rahul Gandhi by BJP.
Re: Re: Why BJP lost?
by padman on May 17, 2009 09:23 AM
people of karnataka are brainwashed to some extend. they voted for hiduttva more than anything else. second factor influence bjp is CM is from lyngayath caste where they represent 36% of state population. To that add 10%bhrahmins, kokankan which work out well for BJP. finally, As long as JDS strong, congress countinue to lose.
in karnataka, for most of the places, candidate is not important. people vote for BJP no matter who stand. mangalore, bangalore south are best example, people electing bjp for more than 5 times. Fact bjp is already established caste votebank. BJP win is just an head count. no matter who win, yudi and anathkumar make sure no other leader grow. they always enjoy power in state politics.
BJP stuggle to find 10-12 candidate for karnataka 28 seat MP election. they bought many MP,MLA from JDS and congress for this election. chandegowda,lost election 4 times from congress won this time in far away from home constituency, defected jaffer shareiff from BJP seat in bangalore north. if you look state result, it looks joke and yet surprsing.
Re: Re: Why BJP lost?
by rajeev nair on May 16, 2009 10:34 PM
U know what floatsam,,u guys are a bunch of losers and still wondering what went wrong!!!! BJP govt and a secular law.. Did u ever go to a saffron stronghold in karnataka... Visit once and u will find the answer why Muthalik and BJP are hands in hands!!!
Re: Re: Re: Why BJP lost?
by floatsam on May 17, 2009 12:27 AM
I understand the details there quite well. Have studied there and was in a regular in RSS for few years.
Once all RSS folks in our college were invited by Field Marshall Cariappa for a heart to heart chat at Panambur in Mangalore.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Why BJP lost?
by Rajeev on May 17, 2009 10:18 AM
Well, u dont understand nothing... Once RSS folks were invited by Cariappa .. so what?? u guys are still the losers...
Re: Why BJP lost?
by crazedcat on May 16, 2009 08:07 PM
BJP loses because it concentrates on middle classes, not economically-weak classes. I don't think poor people are particularly bothered about Article 356 or UCC.
Re: Re: Why BJP lost?
by Rajeev on May 16, 2009 08:12 PM
Do u know crazed cat that BJP losta ll metros too?? And u r still thinking that BJP has middleclass supoort... my foot...
Re: Re: Re: Why BJP lost?
by crazedcat on May 16, 2009 08:15 PM
I said BJP concentrates its efforts on the middle classes and ignores the weaker classes. That sentence doesn't imply the middle classes will support it.
Those who voted for TRS should think one more time. KCR is the guy who looks for power not for TELANGANA. As a resident of telengana districts I am not for breaking up the state. I don't when the rest will realize about KCR's true colors.
"The history of many religion-based parties in other countries often is that when they do badly electorally, the die-hards in the party manage to convince themselves that their poor performance was due to not their over-focus on religion, but because of their not focussing sufficiently on religion-related issues. Instead of diluting polarising tendencies, they further strengthen them.
The BJP has to resist such a retrograde step if it has to regain its elan and come back to power. What is required is not more of the Hindutva ideology, but less of it. "
Mr. Raman's lucidity and breadth of analysis here takes it to a classical level; likely to be read and studied by researchers of the present and future.
There is one piece of dissent. It is about pitting common man and corporate world. To corporate world, common man is a consumer, the reason why Corporates exist!
Yes, consumer protection in India is appalling. One does expect a policy of consistently taking sides for favouring the consumers against Corporates when such conflicts arise.
Taking side of the consumers also necessarily implies not taking sides within business world. One therefore expects not taking sides in the conflicts within different segments of the business world: big business versus small, family feuds, foreign capital versus national capital, private sector versus public sector etc.. Here mixing ideology with law has often led to inefficiencies, shortages, higher costs and poor quality.
